Engaging in a discussion

On 22/10/2014 02:36, Lord Vath wrote:
On Tue, 21 Oct 2014 17:17:01 -0700 (PDT), palsing
wrote this crap:

On Tuesday, October 21, 2014 11:18:31 AM UTC-7, Lord Vath wrote:
On Tue, 21 Oct 2014 09:59:39 -0700 (PDT), palsing

wrote this crap:

On Monday, October 20, 2014 10:14:11 PM UTC-7, oriel36 wrote:

For me the Equation of Time is a window into the dynamics of the Earth
and it is possible to see directly where it comes from albeit
by looking at another planet with unique traits.

For me, the Equation of Time explains the analemma quite
nicely, as it does for most other folks... but you,
of course, have no clue...

Ten bucks says he doesn't even understand tensor calculus.

Well, no, he probably doesn't, but there is no shame in this;
a great majority of the time such disciplines are not needed
to explain simple concepts like rotation, revolution, retrogrades and the like.

Gerald has a LOT to learn before he even remotely needs to learn
tensor calculus... or even beginning calculus, for that matter.
Ya gotta crawl before you can walk or run... and so far,
he can't even turn over!

And you can derive the equation of time from basics like Newtons laws of
motion, conservation of energy, angular momentum and the inverse square
law of gravity via Keplers planetary motion in an ellipse.

The ancient Babylonians were smart enough to have observed it.

Unless you understand the math you can only understand the basic
concepts of motion. You at least need to know vectors.

Hardly. The equation of time was known long before vectors - back in the
days when sea captains were taught spherical trigonometry for
navigation. It was empirically known from ancient times and described by
Ptolemy in the Almagest. His epicycles were good enough at the time.

Hamiltons quaternions predate the usage of vectors in physics and would
have been more than up to the job. Their modern generalisation as
Clifford Algebras are making a come-back.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William...on#Quaternions

Heavily used today in 3D computer graphics too.

This signature is now the ultimate
power in the universe

A bold claim indeed. But unsupported by evidence.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On Wednesday, October 22, 2014 9:45:30 AM UTC+1, Martin Brown wrote:
On 22/10/2014 02:36, Lord Vath wrote:

On Tue, 21 Oct 2014 17:17:01 -0700 (PDT), palsing

wrote this crap:



On Tuesday, October 21, 2014 11:18:31 AM UTC-7, Lord Vath wrote:

On Tue, 21 Oct 2014 09:59:39 -0700 (PDT), palsing



wrote this crap:



On Monday, October 20, 2014 10:14:11 PM UTC-7, oriel36 wrote:



For me the Equation of Time is a window into the dynamics of the Earth

and it is possible to see directly where it comes from albeit

by looking at another planet with unique traits.



For me, the Equation of Time explains the analemma quite

nicely, as it does for most other folks... but you,

of course, have no clue...



Ten bucks says he doesn't even understand tensor calculus.



Well, no, he probably doesn't, but there is no shame in this;

a great majority of the time such disciplines are not needed

to explain simple concepts like rotation, revolution, retrogrades and the like.



Gerald has a LOT to learn before he even remotely needs to learn

tensor calculus... or even beginning calculus, for that matter.

Ya gotta crawl before you can walk or run... and so far,

he can't even turn over!



And you can derive the equation of time from basics like Newtons laws of

motion, conservation of energy, angular momentum and the inverse square

law of gravity via Keplers planetary motion in an ellipse.


The Equation of Time is expressed as absolute/relative time by Newton however,in plain language, the Equation of Time reflects the dual rotations of the Earth to the central Sun which creates the natural inequalities in the total length of time it takes the Sun to cross a meridian and that observation is a global observation as long as the Sun is seen each noon.

Now, your cult has created this notion of getting rid of absolute time without actually knowing what it represents astronomically and more to the point, your cult never understood Newton's scheme nor the distortions of astronomy it contained.

So,any reader here is drawn back into the discussion of planetary dynamics and the Equation of Time as a component of human timekeeping rather than a driver.


" Here take notice, that the Sun or the Earth passes the 12 Zodiacal signs,or makes an entire revolution in the ecliptic in 365 days, 5 hours 49 min. or there about, and that those days, reckon'd from noon to noon, are of different lenghts; as is known to all that are vers'd in Astronomy.Now between the longest and the shortest of those days, a day may be taken of such a length, as 365 such days, 5. hours &c. (the same numbers as before) make up, or are equal to that revolution: And this is call'd the Equal or Mean day, according to which the Watches are to be set; and therefore the Hour or Minute shew'd by the Watches, though they be perfectly just and equal, must needs differ almost continually from those that are shew'd by the Sun, or are reckon'd according to its Motion. But this Difference is regular, and is otherwise call'd the Aequation " Huygens

"Absolute time, in astronomy, is distinguished from relative, by the equation of time. For the natural days are truly unequal, though they are commonly considered as equal and used for a measure of time; astronomers correct this inequality for their more accurate deducing of the celestial motions.The necessity of which equation, for determining the times of a phænomenon, is evinced as well from the experiments of the pendulum clock, as by eclipses of the satellites of Jupiter." Newton

Conjuring up this story about getting rid of absolute time and then calling it the pinnacle of human achievement is pure empirical rubbish but it is getting in the way of using the unequal lengths of the natural noon cycle to focus attention on the underlying dynamics of the Earth which are contained in the observation.

Unlike a century ago when everyone got caught up in an attempt to escape the clockwork solar system of Newton by increasing the jargon, observers today are faced with these visual narratives which explain the bridge between planetary dynamics and timekeeping hence the ability to admire the intricate reasoning may be the sign of real intelligence and interest in astronomy.

On Wed, 22 Oct 2014 09:45:25 +0100, Martin Brown
wrote this crap:

On 22/10/2014 02:36, Lord Vath wrote:
On Tue, 21 Oct 2014 17:17:01 -0700 (PDT), palsing
wrote this crap:

On Tuesday, October 21, 2014 11:18:31 AM UTC-7, Lord Vath wrote:
On Tue, 21 Oct 2014 09:59:39 -0700 (PDT), palsing

wrote this crap:

On Monday, October 20, 2014 10:14:11 PM UTC-7, oriel36 wrote:

For me the Equation of Time is a window into the dynamics of the Earth
and it is possible to see directly where it comes from albeit
by looking at another planet with unique traits.

For me, the Equation of Time explains the analemma quite
nicely, as it does for most other folks... but you,
of course, have no clue...

Ten bucks says he doesn't even understand tensor calculus.

Well, no, he probably doesn't, but there is no shame in this;
a great majority of the time such disciplines are not needed
to explain simple concepts like rotation, revolution, retrogrades and the like.

Gerald has a LOT to learn before he even remotely needs to learn
tensor calculus... or even beginning calculus, for that matter.
Ya gotta crawl before you can walk or run... and so far,
he can't even turn over!

And you can derive the equation of time from basics like Newtons laws of
motion, conservation of energy, angular momentum and the inverse square
law of gravity via Keplers planetary motion in an ellipse.

The ancient Babylonians were smart enough to have observed it.

Unless you understand the math you can only understand the basic
concepts of motion. You at least need to know vectors.

Hardly. The equation of time was known long before vectors - back in the
days when sea captains were taught spherical trigonometry for
navigation. It was empirically known from ancient times and described by
Ptolemy in the Almagest. His epicycles were good enough at the time.

Hamiltons quaternions predate the usage of vectors in physics and would
have been more than up to the job. Their modern generalisation as
Clifford Algebras are making a come-back.

Of course. We perceive motion every day so it is easy to understand
without the necessary mathematics. But to interpret advanced motion
over a period of protracted time takes understanding of vector
calculus and tensor analysis. Even sea captains needed a working
knowledge of geometry.


This signature is now the ultimate
power in the universe