There is no such thing as time dilation

On Jul 22, 2:12 pm, Poutnik wrote:
PD wrote:

Actually, the GPS is a good demonstration that time dilation DOES exist.
You've agreed to this before but said that it is not a good example of
MUTUAL time dilation. That's fine. Not all time dilation in SR is mutual
time dilation, and GPS isn't expected to show mutual time dilation.

Note that GPS is a great example of combination
of SR time dilation, and GR time speeding up.

This is just not true. It is only a silly myth to justify the worship
of GR. shrug

First of all, the synchronization has to be achieved is not the clock
itself but the time keeping counter which is accumulated by this
clock. Thus, synchronization of time is merely a software issue.
shrug

In reality, it is does not matter how you set the clocks that
accumulate the time counters in these satellites to be ever so
different from the ground clocks, as long as all the satellites get
the treatment, the decoding algorithm that decodes the GPS data
acquired from at least 4 satellites is very independent of the surface
of the earth. shrug

Thus, GPS is a very ****-poor means to justify for the nonsense of
GR. The ones who suggest otherwise are just ignorant. The math
involved although very grungy in the mechanics is actually very simple
in concept. shrug

On Jul 23, 3:44*pm, Koobee Wublee wrote:
On Jul 22, 2:12 pm, Poutnik wrote:

PD wrote:
Actually, the GPS is a good demonstration that time dilation DOES exist.
You've agreed to this before but said that it is not a good example of
MUTUAL time dilation. That's fine. Not all time dilation in SR is mutual
time dilation, and GPS isn't expected to show mutual time dilation.

Note that GPS is a great example of combination
of SR time dilation, and GR time speeding up.

This is just not true. *It is only a silly myth to justify the worship
of GR. *shrug

First of all, the synchronization has to be achieved is not the clock
itself but the time keeping counter which is accumulated by this
clock. *Thus, synchronization of time is merely a software issue.
shrug

In reality, it is does not matter how you set the clocks that
accumulate the time counters in these satellites to be ever so
different from the ground clocks, as long as all the satellites get
the treatment, the decoding algorithm that decodes the GPS data
acquired from at least 4 satellites is very independent of the surface
of the earth. *shrug

Thus, GPS is a very ****-poor means to justify for the nonsense of
GR. *The ones who suggest otherwise are just ignorant. *The math
involved although very grungy in the mechanics is actually very simple
in concept. *shrug

shrug

"Koobee Wublee" wrote:
Poutnik wrote:
PD wrote:

PD wrote:
Actually, the GPS is a good demonstration that time dilation DOES
exist.
You've agreed to this before but said that it is not a good example of
MUTUAL time dilation. That's fine. Not all time dilation in SR is
mutual
time dilation, and GPS isn't expected to show mutual time dilation.

Poutnik pouted & wrote:
Note that GPS is a great example of combination
of SR time dilation, and GR time speeding up.

KW wrote:
This is just not true. It is only a silly myth to justify the worship
of GR. shrug

First of all, the synchronization has to be achieved is not the clock
itself but the time keeping counter which is accumulated by this
clock. Thus, synchronization of time is merely a software issue.
shrug

In reality, it is does not matter how you set the clocks that
accumulate the time counters in these satellites to be ever so
different from the ground clocks, as long as all the satellites get
the treatment, the decoding algorithm that decodes the GPS data
acquired from at least 4 satellites is very independent of the surface
of the earth. shrug

Thus, GPS is a very ****-poor means to justify for the nonsense of
GR. The ones who suggest otherwise are just ignorant. The math
involved although very grungy in the mechanics is actually very simple
in concept. shrug

hanson wrote:
.... ahahaha... AHAHAHA... KW, that the "Poutnik", who is
a student still, believes what he is currently indoctrinated
with,.... That is forgivable... But that PD Paul Draper, a now
retired Asst. Prof, who has run the obstacle course of life
still promotes **** like he does, that is disappointing,
considering that any high school student or engineer, can
glean, for this particular situation, in 1 fell swoop, in
\ONE SINGLE STEP, in good, old Newtonian ways, and
show that
||||| ---- m_e/h * 2G/c^2 *86400 = 38 microsec/day ----
||||| ---- m_e/h * 2G/c *86400 = 11.2 km drift /day ----
|||||
where m_e = mass of earth and h being the Space vehicle
height above the earth surface, which is corrected by standard
industrial ways by classical methods devoid of any SR/GR.
http://tinyurl.com/622an2 or http://tinyurl.com/57asbg
http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/GPS/GPS.htm

|||||||| ---- GPS NEVER NEEDED neither SR nor GR ---- |||||||||
||||| not for its design, manufacturing, testing nor operations. |||||
||||| ------------ GPS was in operation LONG before ----------- |||||
||||| Einstein Dingleberries came along to nuzzle into the |||||
||||| show, hoping to get some credit away from Newton. |||||
||||| Albert's SR/GR is the Kosher Tax levied onto academia |||||


KW, let me bestow some long deserved credit onto you,
for you have shown, over and over again, how the logic
and the use of math has been abused & misused for the
purpose of propping up paradigms that are merely cultish
beliefs that lay rotting on the dust heap of history.
Take care and carry on, KW.
hanson

On Jul 23, 2:44Â*am, Koobee Wublee wrote:
On Jul 22, 2:12 pm, Poutnik wrote:

PD wrote:
Actually, the GPS is a good demonstration that time dilation DOES exist.
You've agreed to this before but said that it is not a good example of
MUTUAL time dilation. That's fine. Not all time dilation in SR is mutual
time dilation, and GPS isn't expected to show mutual time dilation.

Note that GPS is a great example of combination
of SR time dilation, and GR time speeding up.

This is just not true. Â*It is only a silly myth to justify the worship
of GR. Â*shrug

First of all, the synchronization has to be achieved is not the clock
itself but the time keeping counter which is accumulated by this
clock. Â*Thus, synchronization of time is merely a software issue.
shrug

In reality, it is does not matter how you set the clocks that
accumulate the time counters in these satellites to be ever so
different from the ground clocks, as long as all the satellites get
the treatment, the decoding algorithm that decodes the GPS data
acquired from at least 4 satellites is very independent of the surface
of the earth. Â*shrug

Thus, GPS is a very ****-poor means to justify for the nonsense of
GR. Â*The ones who suggest otherwise are just ignorant. Â*The math
involved although very grungy in the mechanics is actually very simple
in concept. Â*shrug

I was asked by nonscientists to give my opinion of these two posters.

Koobee Wublee


Pentcho Valev

I am not sure if KW use of GR means General Relativity.

Anyway, it appears to me that KW and PV are far from understanding
physics.

And it appears their motivation is to ragg on Einstein. There are
plenty of
things to rag on Einstein such as General Relativity is all a fake,
and the fact that much of what is credited to Einstein is due mostly
to the era in which he lived and worked, that it was easy to steal
away the work of others and thus given false credit.

Einstein was not the discoverer of
(a) Special Relativity by Lorentz and Poincare
(b) E = mc^2 had a long history before Einstein
(c) Bose statistics should be called that and not Bose Einstein
statistics
(d) Bose Condensate should not be called Bose Einstein Condensate

General Relativity should be divided between Hilbert and Einstein, but
GR is a fake theory anyway so who cares for its credit.

The point I want to make is that I weighed in on KW and PV to satisfy
some readers.

SR is a true theory of Physics, for it is just Maxwell Equations. To
say that SR is
false is like saying that a moving magnet in a stationary wire loop is
not the same as
a moving wire loop over a stationary magnet. This is what I mean that
KW and PV are
not physics people and lack the understanding of Physics, and both
need to go to school to learn real physics.

I am sure neither one of them, if they are two different persons (or
computer), will sit up and learn anything from this post of mine, but
rather plunge further into making themselves fools of physics. I
recommend not reading their posts.

For anyone to post constantly that they think Special Relativity is
flawed, would be the same as someone in mathematics constantly posting
that 2 + 2 is not 4.

To trash on Special Relativity means we throw out the Maxwell
Equations, and we throw out the Dirac Equation and by doing so, we
throw out Quantum Mechanics.

Of course, the sci newsgroups are freedom of speech, so I suppose we
have enough room in the sci newsgroups to tolerate these anti-physics
posters who know little to nothing about physics.

If KW and PV are motivated to rag on Einstein, then all they need to
do is ragg on
Einstein's General Relativity and his penchant for stealing the works
of others without proper citations. There is some evidence that even
Einstein's early publications were due mostly to the ideas of his
first wife, rather than Einstein himself, since after 1905 when he
broke up with his first wife who was a physicist
in her own right, that Einstein never really had any more science
discoveries of note.
So if you want to ragg on Einstein, there is plenty of material to do
that, but at least, for the sake of Physics, stop trying to ragg on
Special Relativity which only makes you look worse than a science
fool.

Archimedes Plutonium 
http://www.iw.net/~a_plutonium 
whole entire
Universe is just one big atom 
where dots of the electron-dot-cloud
are galaxies

On 7/23/11 2:44 AM, Koobee Wublee wrote:
GPS is a very ****-poor means to justify for the nonsense of
GR. The ones who suggest otherwise are just ignorant. The math
involved although very grungy in the mechanics is actually very simple
in concept.

General relativity was (an is) used to predict necessary satellite
clock offsets and many other relativistic correction required to
synchronize satellite, ground and user clocks.

When you introduce GPS into the conversation, the relativistic effect
for satellite must take into account gravitation. The proper treatment
of relativistic effect on satellite clock is discussed in this work
by Neil Ashby, "Relativity in the Global Positioning System"


http://relativity.livingreviews.org/...age=node5.html

Wublee should read the reference and learn from it!

In article , Sam Wormley says...

On 7/23/11 2:44 AM, Koobee Wublee wrote:
GPS is a very ****-poor means to justify for the nonsense of
GR. The ones who suggest otherwise are just ignorant. The math
involved although very grungy in the mechanics is actually very simple
in concept.

General relativity was (an is) used to predict necessary satellite
clock offsets and many other relativistic correction required to
synchronize satellite, ground and user clocks.

When you introduce GPS into the conversation, the relativistic effect
for satellite must take into account gravitation. The proper treatment
of relativistic effect on satellite clock is discussed in this work
by Neil Ashby, "Relativity in the Global Positioning System"


http://relativity.livingreviews.org/...age=node5.html

Wublee should read the reference and learn from it!

No, he's a complete idiot. He is incapable of learning anything
beyond elementary school mathematics. Please ignore him.

--
Daryl McCullough
Ithaca, NY

On Jul 23, 2:44*am, Koobee Wublee wrote:
On Jul 22, 2:12 pm, Poutnik wrote:

PD wrote:
Actually, the GPS is a good demonstration that time dilation DOES exist.
You've agreed to this before but said that it is not a good example of
MUTUAL time dilation. That's fine. Not all time dilation in SR is mutual
time dilation, and GPS isn't expected to show mutual time dilation.

Note that GPS is a great example of combination
of SR time dilation, and GR time speeding up.

This is just not true. *It is only a silly myth to justify the worship
of GR. *shrug

First of all, the synchronization has to be achieved is not the clock
itself but the time keeping counter which is accumulated by this
clock. *Thus, synchronization of time is merely a software issue.
shrug

In reality, it is does not matter how you set the clocks that
accumulate the time counters in these satellites to be ever so
different from the ground clocks, as long as all the satellites get
the treatment, the decoding algorithm that decodes the GPS data
acquired from at least 4 satellites is very independent of the surface
of the earth. *shrug

Yes, in other words, it doesn't matter what causes the
desynchronization as long as you're making a correction for it anyway.
This is the true engineer's solution -- who cares why it happens, just
fix it ad hoc and be done with it.
All the better to do that so that you don't have to acknowledge the
reason for why it happens, especially if that reason grates on your
nerves.


Thus, GPS is a very ****-poor means to justify for the nonsense of
GR. *The ones who suggest otherwise are just ignorant. *The math
involved although very grungy in the mechanics is actually very simple
in concept. *shrug

On Jul 23, 4:08Â*am, Archimedes Plutonium
wrote:
On Jul 23, 2:44Â*am, Koobee Wublee wrote:



On Jul 22, 2:12 pm, Poutnik wrote:

PD wrote:
Actually, the GPS is a good demonstration that time dilation DOES exist.
You've agreed to this before but said that it is not a good example of
MUTUAL time dilation. That's fine. Not all time dilation in SR is mutual
time dilation, and GPS isn't expected to show mutual time dilation.

Note that GPS is a great example of combination
of SR time dilation, and GR time speeding up.

This is just not true. Â*It is only a silly myth to justify the worship
of GR. Â*shrug

First of all, the synchronization has to be achieved is not the clock
itself but the time keeping counter which is accumulated by this
clock. Â*Thus, synchronization of time is merely a software issue.
shrug

In reality, it is does not matter how you set the clocks that
accumulate the time counters in these satellites to be ever so
different from the ground clocks, as long as all the satellites get
the treatment, the decoding algorithm that decodes the GPS data
acquired from at least 4 satellites is very independent of the surface
of the earth. Â*shrug

Thus, GPS is a very ****-poor means to justify for the nonsense of
GR. Â*The ones who suggest otherwise are just ignorant. Â*The math
involved although very grungy in the mechanics is actually very simple
in concept. Â*shrug

I was asked by nonscientists to give my opinion of these two posters.

Koobee Wublee

Pentcho Valev

I am not sure if KW use of GR means General Relativity.

Anyway, it appears to me that KW and PV are far from understanding
physics.

And it appears their motivation is to ragg on Einstein. There are
plenty of
things to rag on Einstein such as General Relativity is all a fake,
and the fact that much of what is credited to Einstein is due mostly
to the era in which he lived and worked, that it was easy to steal
away the work of others and thus given false credit.

Einstein was not the discoverer of
(a) Special Relativity by Lorentz and Poincare
(b) E = mc^2 had a long history before Einstein
(c) Bose statistics should be called that and not Bose Einstein
statistics
(d) Bose Condensate should not be called Bose Einstein Condensate

General Relativity should be divided between Hilbert and Einstein, but
GR is a fake Â*theory anyway so who cares for its credit.

The point I want to make is that I weighed in on KW and PV to satisfy
some readers.

SR is a true theory of Physics, for it is just Maxwell Equations. To
say that SR is
false is like saying that a moving magnet in a stationary wire loop is
not the same as
a moving wire loop over a stationary magnet. This is what I mean that
KW and PV are
not physics people and lack the understanding of Physics, and both
need to go to school to learn real physics.

I am sure neither one of them, if they are two different persons (or
computer), will sit up and learn anything from this post of mine, but
rather plunge further into making themselves fools of physics. I
recommend not reading their posts.

For anyone to post constantly that they think Special Relativity is
flawed, would be the same as someone in mathematics constantly posting
that 2 + 2 is not 4.

To trash on Special Relativity means we throw out the Maxwell
Equations, and we throw out the Dirac Equation and by doing so, we
throw out Quantum Mechanics.

Of course, the sci newsgroups are freedom of speech, so I suppose we
have enough room in the sci newsgroups to tolerate these anti-physics
posters who know little to nothing about physics.

If KW and PV are motivated to rag on Einstein, then all they need to
do is ragg on
Einstein's General Relativity and his penchant for stealing the works
of others without proper citations. There is some evidence that even
Einstein's early publications were due mostly to the ideas of his
first wife, rather than Einstein himself, since after 1905 when he
broke up with his first wife who was a physicist
in her own right, that Einstein never really had any more science
discoveries of note.
So if you want to ragg on Einstein, there is plenty of material to do
that, but at least, for the sake of Physics, stop trying to ragg on
Special Relativity which only makes you look worse than a science
fool.


So if you want to rag on Einstein, there is plenty to rag about. Such
as these:
(a) lost every fight over physics with Bohr
(b) Einstein failed to realize Quantum Mechanics was true
(c) lost the EPR fight in which Bell would prove Bohr was correct
(d) General Relativity is false
(e) Special Relativity is true but then Einstein stole the credit
which belonged
to Lorentz and Poincare

(f) Einstein failed to properly give credit and citations to E = mc^2
(g) Einstein stole much of Bose statistics in an era when science
publishing is
vastly suppressive
(h) Einstein's first wife Mileva Maric perhaps had the lionshare of
the physics insights
for Einstein's 1905 papers.

So there is plenty to rag about Einstein, and to show that his
contributions to physics were
not major. And that the works of Bohr and quantum physicists and then
Dirac and Bell were
major.

So stop this physics nonsense that Special Relativity is flawed.
Special Relativity is simply
a feature of the Maxwell Equations, and your continual ranting that SR
is flawed only exposes
you as a nonscientist.

Archimedes Plutonium
http://www.iw.net/~a_plutonium
whole entire Universe is just one big atom

where dots of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies

On Jul 23, 5:08Â*am, Archimedes Plutonium
wrote:
On Jul 23, 2:44Â*am, Koobee Wublee wrote:



On Jul 22, 2:12 pm, Poutnik wrote:

PD wrote:
Actually, the GPS is a good demonstration that time dilation DOES exist.
You've agreed to this before but said that it is not a good example of
MUTUAL time dilation. That's fine. Not all time dilation in SR is mutual
time dilation, and GPS isn't expected to show mutual time dilation.

Note that GPS is a great example of combination
of SR time dilation, and GR time speeding up.

This is just not true. Â*It is only a silly myth to justify the worship
of GR. Â*shrug

First of all, the synchronization has to be achieved is not the clock
itself but the time keeping counter which is accumulated by this
clock. Â*Thus, synchronization of time is merely a software issue.
shrug

In reality, it is does not matter how you set the clocks that
accumulate the time counters in these satellites to be ever so
different from the ground clocks, as long as all the satellites get
the treatment, the decoding algorithm that decodes the GPS data
acquired from at least 4 satellites is very independent of the surface
of the earth. Â*shrug

Thus, GPS is a very ****-poor means to justify for the nonsense of
GR. Â*The ones who suggest otherwise are just ignorant. Â*The math
involved although very grungy in the mechanics is actually very simple
in concept. Â*shrug

I was asked by nonscientists to give my opinion of these two posters.

Koobee Wublee

Pentcho Valev

I am not sure if KW use of GR means General Relativity.

Anyway, it appears to me that KW and PV are far from understanding
physics.

And it appears their motivation is to ragg on Einstein. There are
plenty of
things to rag on Einstein such as General Relativity is all a fake,
and the fact that much of what is credited to Einstein is due mostly
to the era in which he lived and worked, that it was easy to steal
away the work of others and thus given false credit.

Einstein was not the discoverer of
(a) Special Relativity by Lorentz and Poincare
(b) E = mc^2 had a long history before Einstein
(c) Bose statistics should be called that and not Bose Einstein
statistics
(d) Bose Condensate should not be called Bose Einstein Condensate

General Relativity should be divided between Hilbert and Einstein, but
GR is a fake Â*theory anyway so who cares for its credit.

The point I want to make is that I weighed in on KW and PV to satisfy
some readers.

SR is a true theory of Physics, for it is just Maxwell Equations. To
say that SR is
false is like saying that a moving magnet in a stationary wire loop is
not the same as
a moving wire loop over a stationary magnet. This is what I mean that
KW and PV are
not physics people and lack the understanding of Physics, and both
need to go to school to learn real physics.

I am sure neither one of them, if they are two different persons (or
computer), will sit up and learn anything from this post of mine, but
rather plunge further into making themselves fools of physics. I
recommend not reading their posts.

For anyone to post constantly that they think Special Relativity is
flawed, would be the same as someone in mathematics constantly posting
that 2 + 2 is not 4.

To trash on Special Relativity means we throw out the Maxwell
Equations, and we throw out the Dirac Equation and by doing so, we
throw out Quantum Mechanics.

Of course, the sci newsgroups are freedom of speech, so I suppose we
have enough room in the sci newsgroups to tolerate these anti-physics
posters who know little to nothing about physics.

If KW and PV are motivated to rag on Einstein, then all they need to
do is ragg on
Einstein's General Relativity and his penchant for stealing the works
of others without proper citations. There is some evidence that even
Einstein's early publications were due mostly to the ideas of his
first wife, rather than Einstein himself, since after 1905 when he
broke up with his first wife who was a physicist
in her own right, that Einstein never really had any more science
discoveries of note.
So if you want to ragg on Einstein, there is plenty of material to do
that, but at least, for the sake of Physics, stop trying to ragg on
Special Relativity which only makes you look worse than a science
fool.

Archimedes Plutonium 
http://www.iw.net/~a_plutonium
whole entire
Universe is just one big atom 
where dots of the electron-dot-cloud
are galaxies

In 1912 Einstein predicted gravity lensing. Its used today. Its
proven and should have given him a Nobel. GR came later and he should
have been given a Nobel for that. TreBert

On Jul 23, 3:02Â*pm, bert wrote:
On Jul 23, 5:08Â*am, Archimedes Plutonium









wrote:
On Jul 23, 2:44Â*am, Koobee Wublee wrote:

On Jul 22, 2:12 pm, Poutnik wrote:

PD wrote:
Actually, the GPS is a good demonstration that time dilation DOES exist.
You've agreed to this before but said that it is not a good example of
MUTUAL time dilation. That's fine. Not all time dilation in SR is mutual
time dilation, and GPS isn't expected to show mutual time dilation.