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A Return to the Moon by the Apollo 11 50th Anniversary.



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 8th 13, 11:41 AM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.space.history,sci.astro,sci.physics,rec.arts.sf.science
John F. Eldredge
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Posts: 30
Default A Return to the Moon by the Apollo 11 50th Anniversary.

On Sun, 23 Dec 2012 11:49:54 -0800, bob haller wrote:

initial efforts will be moving a small asteroid, that wouldnt be a
danger even if it did get out of control.....


Define "small" and "wouldn't be a danger". Even if the rock in question
was small enough that it would only endanger a single building if it hit
Earth (which means that you are talking about something about baseball
sized), the resulting lawsuits and bad publicity would probably kill any
further development of the concept.

--
John F. Eldredge --
"Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly
is better than not to think at all." -- Hypatia of Alexandria
  #2  
Old January 8th 13, 12:34 PM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.space.history,sci.astro,sci.physics,rec.arts.sf.science
Bob Haller
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Posts: 3,197
Default A Return to the Moon by the Apollo 11 50th Anniversary.

On Jan 8, 5:41*am, "John F. Eldredge" wrote:
On Sun, 23 Dec 2012 11:49:54 -0800, bob haller wrote:
initial efforts will be moving a small asteroid, that wouldnt be a
danger even if it did get out of control.....


Define "small" and "wouldn't be a danger". *Even if the rock in question
was small enough that it would only endanger a single building if it hit
Earth (which means that you are talking about something about baseball
sized), the resulting lawsuits and bad publicity would probably kill any
further development of the concept.

--
John F. Eldredge --
"Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly
is better than not to think at all." -- Hypatia of Alexandria


and what if a asteroid comes along and hits our planet. proof of
concept, moving asteroids is very important.

and to the hazards of deep space radiation, the news it can cause
dimentia is news to me. up to now it was more about long term cancer
risks...

obviously the shorter the exposure time the less risks overall
  #3  
Old January 8th 13, 05:11 PM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.space.history,sci.astro,sci.physics,rec.arts.sf.science
Bob Haller
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Posts: 3,197
Default A Return to the Moon by the Apollo 11 50th Anniversary.

On Jan 8, 10:56*am, Fred J. McCall wrote:
bob haller wrote:
On Jan 8, 5:41*am, "John F. Eldredge" wrote:
On Sun, 23 Dec 2012 11:49:54 -0800, bob haller wrote:
initial efforts will be moving a small asteroid, that wouldnt be a
danger even if it did get out of control.....


Define "small" and "wouldn't be a danger". *Even if the rock in question
was small enough that it would only endanger a single building if it hit
Earth (which means that you are talking about something about baseball
sized), the resulting lawsuits and bad publicity would probably kill any
further development of the concept.


and what if a asteroid comes along and hits our planet. proof of
concept, moving asteroids is very important.


Which part of "every asteroid is of different mass and composition, so
'proof of concept' with things that aren't what the concept is are
useless" is it that keeps escaping your notice?



and to the hazards of deep space radiation, the news it can cause
dimentia is news to me. up to now it was more about long term cancer
risks...


obviously the shorter the exposure time the less risks overall


Almost everything is news to you, Bobbert, and it's news over and over
and over again, given your mayfly-like memory. *Perhaps you should go
read up on just how little shielding is required to solve this
'problem'.

--
"Ignorance is preferable to error, and he is less remote from the
*truth who believes nothing than he who believes what is wrong."
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *-- Thomas Jefferson


Well with ZERO experience moving a asteroid all you have are theories:
( and the dimentia risk appeared to be news to nasa, they may have
known but never made it public knowledge earlier
  #4  
Old January 8th 13, 06:29 PM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.space.history,sci.astro,sci.physics,rec.arts.sf.science
Wayne Throop
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Posts: 1,062
Default A Return to the Moon by the Apollo 11 50th Anniversary.

: bob haller
: and to the hazards of deep space radiation, the news it can cause
: dimentia is news to me. up to now it was more about long term cancer
: risks...

Right. There are long-term dementia (I think dim-entia may be what
Bob has) as well as long-term cancer risks. This doesn't effect the
already known fact that long term exposure to cosmic rays is Not Good.
So it doesn't really change the risks being signed up for in any
significant way. The *risk* is the radiation. The *symptoms* may vary.

: and what if a asteroid comes along and hits our planet. proof of
: concept, moving asteroids is very important.

Gee, I was told that was proof that having moon and mars
colonies and lots of space habitats at various lagrange points
are very important. I guess it's important for whatever the
space-project-du-jour-that-can-even-vaguely-be-tied-to-asteroids
may be in the daily rant.


  #5  
Old January 8th 13, 06:55 PM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.space.history,sci.astro,sci.physics,rec.arts.sf.science
Mahipal
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 42
Default A Return to the Moon by the Apollo 11 50th Anniversary.

On Jan 8, 12:01*pm, Fred J. McCall wrote:
bob haller wrote:
On Jan 8, 10:56 am, Fred J. McCall wrote:
bob haller wrote:
On Jan 8, 5:41 am, "John F. Eldredge" wrote:
On Sun, 23 Dec 2012 11:49:54 -0800, bob haller wrote:
initial efforts will be moving a small asteroid, that wouldnt be a
danger even if it did get out of control.....


Define "small" and "wouldn't be a danger". Even if the rock in question
was small enough that it would only endanger a single building if it hit
Earth (which means that you are talking about something about baseball
sized), the resulting lawsuits and bad publicity would probably kill any
further development of the concept.


and what if a asteroid comes along and hits our planet. proof of
concept, moving asteroids is very important.


Which part of "every asteroid is of different mass and composition, so
'proof of concept' with things that aren't what the concept is are
useless" is it that keeps escaping your notice?


That's a good point. So deflection by collisions is gambling. So,
putting orientable mirrors to deflect asteroids is the better,
hopefully, solution to build first.

and to the hazards of deep space radiation, the news it can cause
dimentia is news to me. up to now it was more about long term cancer
risks...


obviously the shorter the exposure time the less risks overall


Almost everything is news to you, Bobbert, and it's news over and over
and over again, given your mayfly-like memory. Perhaps you should go
read up on just how little shielding is required to solve this
'problem'.


Sweet "mayfly-like memory" the phrase. May I steal it? Please...

Well with ZERO experience moving a asteroid all you have are theories:


Orbital mechanics is fairly well understood (except by you).


I hate it when anyone uses "Theory" as a fvck-you word.

( *and the dimentia risk appeared to be news to nasa, they may have
known but never made it public knowledge earlier


Bobbert, how things appear to YOU (not NASA) is frequently at odds
with the reality everyone else gets.


Unfortunately, NASA is not just engineers -- good, bad, and or the
ugly. Remember Feynman with his whisky-free glass of ice and some O-
ring? O o... anyway... engineers advise, management decides, and
acting as president Reagan needs a backdrop for his prime time speech.

Again, go reread what I said to you above and DO IT. *Then come back
and you may be able to say something sensible.


Weapons of mass distraction have an assignment to complete.

--
"Ordinarily he is insane. But he has lucid moments when he is
*only stupid."
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * -- Heinrich Heine


Enjo(y)... Cheers!
--
Mahipal, pronounced "My Pal" or "Maple" leads to... Maple Loops.

http://mahipal7638.wordpress.com/meforce/
"If the line between science fiction and science fact doesn't drive
you crazy, then you're not tr(y)ing!"
  #6  
Old January 8th 13, 07:16 PM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.space.history,sci.astro,sci.physics,rec.arts.sf.science
Jeff Findley[_2_]
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Posts: 1,388
Default A Return to the Moon by the Apollo 11 50th Anniversary.

In article 1629bbcc-0ad8-447f-8431-cbf1eef341c9
@d10g2000yqe.googlegroups.com, says...

On Jan 8, 12:01*pm, Fred J. McCall wrote:
Bobbert, how things appear to YOU (not NASA) is frequently at odds
with the reality everyone else gets.


Unfortunately, NASA is not just engineers -- good, bad, and or the
ugly. Remember Feynman with his whisky-free glass of ice and some O-
ring? O o... anyway... engineers advise, management decides, and
acting as president Reagan needs a backdrop for his prime time speech.


True, but Richard Feynman was an extremely smart guy. It's a bit shades
of Dr. Sheldon Cooper (a main character in The Big Bang Theory, a
current US TV Show), but as a Nobel Prize winning theoretical physicist,
Feynman understood *a lot* about how the world works. Mere "rocket
science" was not beyond his understanding. ;-)

Jeff
--
"the perennial claim that hypersonic airbreathing propulsion would
magically make space launch cheaper is nonsense -- LOX is much cheaper
than advanced airbreathing engines, and so are the tanks to put it in
and the extra thrust to carry it." - Henry Spencer
  #7  
Old January 8th 13, 08:08 PM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.space.history,sci.astro,sci.physics,rec.arts.sf.science
Mahipal
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 42
Default A Return to the Moon by the Apollo 11 50th Anniversary.

On Jan 8, 1:16*pm, Jeff Findley wrote:
In article 1629bbcc-0ad8-447f-8431-cbf1eef341c9
@d10g2000yqe.googlegroups.com, says...



On Jan 8, 12:01 pm, Fred J. McCall wrote:
Bobbert, how things appear to YOU (not NASA) is frequently at odds
with the reality everyone else gets.


Unfortunately, NASA is not just engineers -- good, bad, and or the
ugly. Remember Feynman with his whisky-free glass of ice and some O-
ring? O o... anyway... engineers advise, management decides, and
acting as president Reagan needs a backdrop for his prime time speech.


True, but Richard Feynman was an extremely smart guy. *It's a bit shades
of Dr. Sheldon Cooper (a main character in The Big Bang Theory, a
current US TV Show), but as a Nobel Prize winning theoretical physicist,
Feynman understood *a lot* about how the world works. *Mere "rocket
science" was not beyond his understanding. *;-)


Feynman did not conceive, I suspect, the existing known to engineers
problem of brittle rubber O-rings by himself. The engineers had to
have to advised him. Though Feynman made a great demonstration of it
to the whisky soaked Congress/Senate. Hiccups. Somewhere a "he he"
need apply? Must watch my back since I write myself into a frenzy on
Tuesdays.

My point about NASA was more about how the advice -- good, bad, or
ugly -- gets changed, mis-directed, manipulated as needed, when it
progresses up the politically dominated pyramid scheme chain of The
Boss's commands.

I do regularly watch the TBBT, since a friend talked me into it. Fun
show, but not as funny as it advertises itself to be. Marketing hype,
and all that. The fake laugh tracks does not help nor impress even my
kids. Still, QM QED Feynman way smarter than any Nobel Prize
_demanding_ cartoon of a character Dr. Sheldon Cooper -- my Actor
indifferent statement. The comparison of the two should not even be
possible, or allowed, iykwim. Entertainment is not Physics. Or, vice
versa.

Jeff
--
"the perennial claim that hypersonic airbreathing propulsion would
magically make space launch cheaper is nonsense -- LOX is much cheaper
than advanced airbreathing engines, and so are the tanks to put it in
and the extra thrust to carry it." - Henry Spencer


Enjo(y)... Cheers!
--
Mahipal, pronounced "My Pal" or "Maple" leads to... Maple Loops.

http://mahipal7638.wordpress.com/meforce/
"If the line between science fiction and science fact doesn't drive
you crazy, then you're not tr(y)ing!"
  #8  
Old January 8th 13, 09:09 PM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.space.history,sci.astro,sci.physics,rec.arts.sf.science
Jeff Findley[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,388
Default A Return to the Moon by the Apollo 11 50th Anniversary.

In article a4c9a329-cd8a-47a7-b563-
, says...

My point about NASA was more about how the advice -- good, bad, or
ugly -- gets changed, mis-directed, manipulated as needed, when it
progresses up the politically dominated pyramid scheme chain of The
Boss's commands.


True.

When working in a "shoot the messenger" environment, I've seen how
messages are sanitized as they move up the management chain. By the
time such a message gets to a person who can actually make a decision,
they often don't have all the facts to make a properly informed
decision.

Then there is the problem with "dumbing down" a message as it moves up
the management chain on the assumption that upper management either
won't understand (or doesn't care about) the gory details. It's always
refreshing working in an environment where managers actually understand
the details.

I've also dealt with politics in the form of "the boss' pet project".
:-P

I do regularly watch the TBBT, since a friend talked me into it. Fun
show, but not as funny as it advertises itself to be. Marketing hype,
and all that. The fake laugh tracks does not help nor impress even my
kids. Still, QM QED Feynman way smarter than any Nobel Prize
_demanding_ cartoon of a character Dr. Sheldon Cooper -- my Actor
indifferent statement. The comparison of the two should not even be
possible, or allowed, iykwim. Entertainment is not Physics. Or, vice
versa.


I stuck a smiley face on the end of my original response, so it's all
good. ;-)

Jeff
--
"the perennial claim that hypersonic airbreathing propulsion would
magically make space launch cheaper is nonsense -- LOX is much cheaper
than advanced airbreathing engines, and so are the tanks to put it in
and the extra thrust to carry it." - Henry Spencer
  #9  
Old January 8th 13, 10:47 PM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.space.history,sci.astro,sci.physics,rec.arts.sf.science
Rick Jones
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Posts: 685
Default A Return to the Moon by the Apollo 11 50th Anniversary.

In sci.space.history Jeff Findley wrote:
When working in a "shoot the messenger" environment, I've seen how
messages are sanitized as they move up the management chain. By the
time such a message gets to a person who can actually make a
decision, they often don't have all the facts to make a properly
informed decision.


Then there is the problem with "dumbing down" a message as it moves
up the management chain on the assumption that upper management
either won't understand (or doesn't care about) the gory details.
It's always refreshing working in an environment where managers
actually understand the details.


The last entry at http://www.badpets.net/Humor/LongLists/****list.html
would seem applicable.

rick jones
--
oxymoron n, Hummer H2 with California Save Our Coasts and Oceans plates
these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway...
feel free to post, OR email to rick.jones2 in hp.com but NOT BOTH...
  #10  
Old January 9th 13, 02:11 AM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.space.history,sci.astro,sci.physics,rec.arts.sf.science
Mahipal
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 42
Default A Return to the Moon by the Apollo 11 50th Anniversary.

On Jan 8, 3:09*pm, Jeff Findley wrote:
In article a4c9a329-cd8a-47a7-b563-
, says...



My point about NASA was more about how the advice -- good, bad, or
ugly -- gets changed, mis-directed, manipulated as needed, when it
progresses up the politically dominated pyramid scheme chain of The
Boss's commands.


True.

When working in a "shoot the messenger" environment, I've seen how
messages are sanitized as they move up the management chain. *By the
time such a message gets to a person who can actually make a decision,
they often don't have all the facts to make a properly informed
decision.


There's an acknowledged "shoot the messenger" environment?

Then there is the problem with "dumbing down" a message as it moves up
the management chain on the assumption that upper management either
won't understand (or doesn't care about) the gory details. *It's always
refreshing working in an environment where managers actually understand
the details.


Via competent, or not, managers, a message manipulated is an evil in
disguise. I'm very simple that way... a fault I have to learn to hide.

I've also dealt with politics in the form of "the boss' pet project".
:-P

I do regularly watch the TBBT, since a friend talked me into it. Fun
show, but not as funny as it advertises itself to be. Marketing hype,
and all that. The fake laugh tracks does not help nor impress even my
kids. Still, QM QED Feynman way smarter than any Nobel Prize
_demanding_ cartoon of a character Dr. Sheldon Cooper -- my Actor
indifferent statement. The comparison of the two should not even be
possible, or allowed, iykwim. Entertainment is not Physics. Or, vice
versa.


I stuck a smiley face on the end of my original response, so it's all
good. * *;-)


I saw the smiley. I've resolved to neither use them nor read them. The
message should speak for itself. I'll deal with the ramifications.

Jeff
--
"the perennial claim that hypersonic airbreathing propulsion would
magically make space launch cheaper is nonsense -- LOX is much cheaper
than advanced airbreathing engines, and so are the tanks to put it in
and the extra thrust to carry it." - Henry Spencer


The "s h i t" link Rick Jones provided was is really entertaining.

Enjo(y)... Cheers!
--
Mahipal, pronounced "My Pal" or "Maple" leads to... Maple Loops.

http://mahipal7638.wordpress.com/meforce/
"If the line between science fiction and science fact doesn't drive
you crazy, then you're not tr(y)ing!"
 




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