Aether has mass

On Dec 24, 3:44*pm, mpc755 wrote:
On Dec 24, 6:41*pm, mpc755 wrote:









On Dec 24, 5:10*pm, Brad Guth wrote:

Perhaps in the case of their being contained within the shell of a BH
sphere is where these captured electrons and positrons manage to
create aether that is filling the mostly empty space within the BH
with aether that also can not escape until the aether pressure exceeds
the required escape velocity of perhaps 2c.

I think it is more likely the following.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi.../BlackHole.jpg

Where matter from the accretion disk is continually destroyed as it is
pulled into the Universal event horizon and emitted into the Universal
jet as aether.

Should have said pushed into the Universal event horizon by the aether
displaced by the Universal black hole.

The matter/antimatter of electrons and positrons interacting could be
what is creating aether within the mostly hollow or empty BH.

Do not black holes emit what we interpret as positrons?

On Dec 24, 9:05*pm, Brad Guth wrote:
On Dec 24, 3:44*pm, mpc755 wrote:









On Dec 24, 6:41*pm, mpc755 wrote:

On Dec 24, 5:10*pm, Brad Guth wrote:

Perhaps in the case of their being contained within the shell of a BH
sphere is where these captured electrons and positrons manage to
create aether that is filling the mostly empty space within the BH
with aether that also can not escape until the aether pressure exceeds
the required escape velocity of perhaps 2c.

I think it is more likely the following.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi.../BlackHole.jpg

Where matter from the accretion disk is continually destroyed as it is
pulled into the Universal event horizon and emitted into the Universal
jet as aether.

Should have said pushed into the Universal event horizon by the aether
displaced by the Universal black hole.

The matter/antimatter of electrons and positrons interacting could be
what is creating aether within the mostly hollow or empty BH.

Do not black holes emit what we interpret as positrons?

I don't think what is being emitted into the Universal jet originates
from within the black hole. I think matter which exists in the
accretion disk is pushed past the black hole event horizon is
destroyed into aether and it the aether which is emitted into the
Universal jet.

Think of the following as an ongoing process with aether is emitted
into the Universal jet, condenses into particles of matter, eventually
winds up back in the accretion disk where it will once again fall past
the black hole event horizon where it is emitted into the Universal
jet.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi.../BlackHole.jpg

Think of this as occurring outside of the black hole itself.

On Dec 24, 6:45*am, mpc755 wrote:
On Dec 24, 9:22*am, Linuxgal wrote:

Brad Guth wrote:
If electrons or positrons only exist as mere singularity point-source
massive little bits

They don't. *They exist as smeared-out deBroglie matter waves.

'Interpretation of quantum mechanics by the double solution theory -
Louis de BROGLIE'http://aflb.ensmp.fr/AFLB-classiques/aflb124p001.pdf

“When in 1923-1924 I had my first ideas about Wave Mechanics I was
looking for a truly concrete physical image

That was his mistake, one many actual scientists still make, just as
you are doing.

The math we use is based on our puny human ability to understand
physics according to our puny intuition based on our limited senses.
We parse physical phenomena into waves and particles and then insist
that Nature obey our provincial little prejudices. When she refuses
our panties get into a twist.

Stop trying to tell Nature how to do what She does. Shut up, watch
Her dance, and let Her teach you.


Mark L. Fergerson

On Dec 24, 10:50*pm, " wrote:
On Dec 24, 6:45*am, mpc755 wrote:

On Dec 24, 9:22*am, Linuxgal wrote:

Brad Guth wrote:
If electrons or positrons only exist as mere singularity point-source
massive little bits

They don't. *They exist as smeared-out deBroglie matter waves.

'Interpretation of quantum mechanics by the double solution theory -
Louis de BROGLIE'http://aflb.ensmp.fr/AFLB-classiques/aflb124p001.pdf

“When in 1923-1924 I had my first ideas about Wave Mechanics I was
looking for a truly concrete physical image

* That was his mistake, one many actual scientists still make, just as
you are doing.

* The math we use is based on our puny human ability to understand
physics according to our puny intuition based on our limited senses.
We parse physical phenomena into waves and particles and then insist
that Nature obey our provincial little prejudices. When she refuses
our panties get into a twist.

* Stop trying to tell Nature how to do what She does. Shut up, watch
Her dance, and let Her teach you.

* Mark L. Fergerson

No one can force you to stop being ignorant of understanding what
occurs physically in nature.

'Quantum mechanics rule 'bent' in classic experiment'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-13626587

'For his part, Professor Steinberg believes that the result reduces a
limitation not on quantum physics but on physicists themselves. "I
feel like we're starting to pull back a veil on what nature really
is," he said. "The trouble with quantum mechanics is that while we've
learned to calculate the outcomes of all sorts of experiments, we've
lost much of our ability to describe what is really happening in any
natural language. I think that this has really hampered our ability to
make progress, to come up with new ideas and see intuitively how new
systems ought to behave."'

http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...inty-principle

"Intriguingly, the trajectories closely match those predicted by an
unconventional interpretation of quantum mechanics known as pilot-wave
theory, in which each particle has a well-defined trajectory that
takes it through one slit while the associated wave passes through
both slits."

A particle physically displaces the aether. A moving particle has an
associated aether displacement wave. In a double slit experiment the
particle enters and exits a single slit. It is the associated wave in
the aether which passes through both. As the aether wave exits the
slits it creates wave interference. As the particle exits a single
slit the direction it travels is altered by the wave interference.
This is the wave piloting the particle of pilot-wave theory. Strongly
detecting the particle turns the associated aether wave into chop. The
particle gets knocked around by the chop and continues on the path it
is traveling.

What waves in a double slit experiment is the aether.

On Dec 24, 8:08*pm, mpc755 wrote:
On Dec 24, 10:50*pm, " wrote:









On Dec 24, 6:45*am, mpc755 wrote:

On Dec 24, 9:22*am, Linuxgal wrote:

Brad Guth wrote:
If electrons or positrons only exist as mere singularity point-source
massive little bits

They don't. *They exist as smeared-out deBroglie matter waves.

'Interpretation of quantum mechanics by the double solution theory -
Louis de BROGLIE'http://aflb.ensmp.fr/AFLB-classiques/aflb124p001.pdf

“When in 1923-1924 I had my first ideas about Wave Mechanics I was
looking for a truly concrete physical image

* That was his mistake, one many actual scientists still make, just as
you are doing.

* The math we use is based on our puny human ability to understand
physics according to our puny intuition based on our limited senses.
We parse physical phenomena into waves and particles and then insist
that Nature obey our provincial little prejudices. When she refuses
our panties get into a twist.

* Stop trying to tell Nature how to do what She does. Shut up, watch
Her dance, and let Her teach you.

No one can force you to stop being ignorant of understanding what
occurs physically in nature.

No one can stop you from failing to make a prediction that
unambiguously demonstrates your aether assertions to be true, while
falsifying current standard physics.

'Quantum mechanics rule 'bent' in classic experiment'http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-13626587

'For his part, Professor Steinberg believes that the result reduces a
limitation not on quantum physics but on physicists themselves. "I
feel like we're starting to pull back a veil on what nature really
is," he said. "The trouble with quantum mechanics is that while we've
learned to calculate the outcomes of all sorts of experiments, we've
lost much of our ability to describe what is really happening in any
natural language.

"Natural language" is exactly the sort of limitation that *prevents*
us from having any idea of "what is really happening". Natural
languages DO NOT describe Nature, they describe our puny human
perceptions of Her, at best.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...uble-slit-expe....

"What quantum physicist Aephraim Steinberg of the University of
Toronto in Canada and his colleagues have now shown, however, is that
it is possible to precisely measure photons' position and obtain
approximate information about their momentum, in an approach known as
'weak measurement'."

"Intriguingly, the trajectories closely match those predicted by an
unconventional interpretation of quantum mechanics known as pilot-wave
theory, in which each particle has a well-defined trajectory that
takes it through one slit while the associated wave passes through
both slits."

"Steinberg stresses that his group's work does not challenge the
uncertainty principle, pointing out that the results could, in
principle, be predicted with standard quantum mechanics."

Did you think I would let you get away with cherry-picking?

Now, make a prediction that unambiguously demonstrates your aether
assertions to be true, while falsifying current standard physics,
instead of indulging in your OCD repitition.


Mark L. Fergerson

On Dec 25, 5:50*am, " wrote:
On Dec 24, 8:08*pm, mpc755 wrote:









On Dec 24, 10:50*pm, " wrote:

On Dec 24, 6:45*am, mpc755 wrote:

On Dec 24, 9:22*am, Linuxgal wrote:

Brad Guth wrote:
If electrons or positrons only exist as mere singularity point-source
massive little bits

They don't. *They exist as smeared-out deBroglie matter waves.

'Interpretation of quantum mechanics by the double solution theory -
Louis de BROGLIE'http://aflb.ensmp.fr/AFLB-classiques/aflb124p001.pdf

“When in 1923-1924 I had my first ideas about Wave Mechanics I was
looking for a truly concrete physical image

* That was his mistake, one many actual scientists still make, just as
you are doing.

* The math we use is based on our puny human ability to understand
physics according to our puny intuition based on our limited senses.
We parse physical phenomena into waves and particles and then insist
that Nature obey our provincial little prejudices. When she refuses
our panties get into a twist.

* Stop trying to tell Nature how to do what She does. Shut up, watch
Her dance, and let Her teach you.

No one can force you to stop being ignorant of understanding what
occurs physically in nature.

* No one can stop you from failing to make a prediction that
unambiguously demonstrates your aether assertions to be true, while
falsifying current standard physics.

'Quantum mechanics rule 'bent' in classic experiment'http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-13626587

'For his part, Professor Steinberg believes that the result reduces a
limitation not on quantum physics but on physicists themselves. "I
feel like we're starting to pull back a veil on what nature really
is," he said. "The trouble with quantum mechanics is that while we've
learned to calculate the outcomes of all sorts of experiments, we've
lost much of our ability to describe what is really happening in any
natural language.

* "Natural language" is exactly the sort of limitation that *prevents*
us from having any idea of "what is really happening". Natural
languages DO NOT describe Nature, they describe our puny human
perceptions of Her, at best.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...uble-slit-expe....

* "What quantum physicist Aephraim Steinberg of the University of
Toronto in Canada and his colleagues have now shown, however, is that
it is possible to precisely measure photons' position and obtain
approximate information about their momentum, in an approach known as
'weak measurement'."

"Intriguingly, the trajectories closely match those predicted by an
unconventional interpretation of quantum mechanics known as pilot-wave
theory, in which each particle has a well-defined trajectory that
takes it through one slit while the associated wave passes through
both slits."

* "Steinberg stresses that his group's work does not challenge the
uncertainty principle, pointing out that the results could, in
principle, be predicted with standard quantum mechanics."

* Did you think I would let you get away with cherry-picking?

* Now, make a prediction that unambiguously demonstrates your aether
assertions to be true, while falsifying current standard physics,
instead of indulging in your OCD repitition.

* Mark L. Fergerson

All 'delayed choice quantum eraser' experiments are explained by
understanding conservation of momentum and a moving particle has an
associated aether displacement wave.

In the image on the right he http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed...The_experiment
When the downconverted photon pair are created, in order for there to
be conservation of momentum, the original photons momentum is
conserved. This means the downconverted photon pair have opposite
polarizations. We will describe one of the photons as being the 'up'
photon and the other photon as being the 'down' photon. One of the
downconverted photons travels either the red or blue path toward D0
and the other photon travels either the red or blue path toward the
prism.

There are physical waves in the aether propagating both the red and
blue paths. The aether waves propagating toward D0 interact with the
lens and create interference prior to reaching D0. The aether waves
create interference which alters the direction the photon travels
prior to reaching D0. There are actually two interference patterns
being created at D0. One associated with the 'up' photons when they
arrive at D0 and the other interference pattern associated with the
'down' photons when they arrive at D0.

Both 'up' and 'down' photons are reflected by BSa and arrive at D3.
Since there is a single path toward D3 there is nothing for the wave
in the aether to interfere with and there is no interference pattern
and since it is not determined if it is an 'up' or 'down' photon being
detected at D3 there is no way to distinguish between the photons
arriving at D0 which interference pattern each photon belongs to. The
same for photons reflected by BSb and arrive at D4.

Photons which pass through BSa and are reflected by BSc and arrive at
D1 are either 'up' or 'down' photons but not both. If 'up' photons
arrive at D1 then 'down' photons arrive at D2. The opposite occurs for
photons which pass through BSb. Photons which pass through BSa and
pass through BSb and arrive at D1 are all either 'up' or 'down'
photons. If all 'up' photons arrive at D1 then all 'down' photons
arrive at D2. Since the physical waves in the aether traveling both
the red and blue paths are combined prior to D1 and D2 the aether
waves create interference which alters the direction the photon
travels. Since all 'up' photons arrive at one of the detectors and all
'down' photons arrive at the other an interference pattern is created
which reflects back to the interference both sets of photons are
creating at D0.

The following experiment will provide evidence of the correctness of
pilot-wave theory:

Instead of having a single beam splitter BSc have two beam splitters
BSca and BScb. Replace mirror Ma with BSca and replace mirror Mb
interact with BScb. Do not combine the red and blue paths. Have
additional detectors D1a, D2a, D1b, and D2b. Have the photons
reflected by and propagate through BSca be detected at D1a and D2a.
Have the photons reflected by and propagate through BScb be detected
at D1b and D2b. If you compare the photons detected at D1a and (D1b or
D2b) with the photons detected at D0, the corresponding photons
detected at D0 will form an interference pattern. If you compare the
photons detected at D2a and (D1b or D2B) with the photons detected at
D0, the corresponding photons detected at D0 will form an interference
pattern. What is occurring is all 'up' photons are being detected at
one pair of detectors, for example D1a and D1b, and all 'down' photons
are being detected at the other pair of detectors, for example D2a and
D2b. Interference patterns do not even need to be created in order to
determine the interference patterns created at D0.

On Tue, 25 Dec 2012 02:50:37 -0800, wrote:

"Steinberg stresses that his group's work does not challenge the
uncertainty principle, pointing out that the results could, in
principle, be predicted with standard quantum mechanics."

Oh of course they HAVE to say this. Defeating establishment science it a
"forbidden" topic. It's like finding life on Mars that is beyond
bacteria. It just isn't permitted.

Did you think I would let you get away with cherry-picking?

Now, make a prediction that unambiguously demonstrates your aether
assertions to be true, while falsifying current standard physics,
instead of indulging in your OCD repitition.


Mark L. Fergerson

Mark, nobody "unambiguously" proves anything true. The best you can do is
produce a theory that will fit all observations on the subject. QM proves
nothing "unambiguously" true. It just more or less fits observations as
best it can (which isn't very well).

So how IS diffraction explained? Establishment physics just mealy-mouths
and talks about "duality" and waves hands a lot and comes up
with...Nothing that makes logical sense. We get wild theories like waves
propagating in "nothing at all", that things don't exist until someone
looks at them and so forth. And like the emperor's new clothes nobody is
supposed to ever mention what logical nonsense it all is. You are just
supposed to be awed by all those mathematics and STFU.

The mpc pilot wave theory may have some problems at this point, but at
least it has FAR more logic to it than the nonsense that trys to pass for
physics with regard to the light diffraction problem. Even Einstein
admitted that light was a puzzle to him. And it still is. But at least
the aether theory begins to look at just HOW light could be particles and
STILL have trajectories that are solutions of the wave equation.

What theory do you have to explain that? None.

On 12/25/2012 4:52 PM, benj wrote:


The mpc pilot wave theory may have some problems at this point, but at
least it has FAR more logic to it than the nonsense that trys to pass for
physics with regard to the light diffraction problem. Even Einstein
admitted that light was a puzzle to him. And it still is. But at least
the aether theory begins to look at just HOW light could be particles and
STILL have trajectories that are solutions of the wave equation.


OK I'll put you down as being on the side that has as it's leader,
MP3....A loon with a sever case of OCD.


--
"OK you ****s, let's see what you can do now" -Hit Girl
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjO7kBqTFqo .. �亮
http://www.richardgingras.com/tia/im...logo_large.jpg

Le 2012-12-25 16:52, benj a écrit :
On Tue, 25 Dec 2012 02:50:37 -0800, wrote:

"Steinberg stresses that his group's work does not challenge the
uncertainty principle, pointing out that the results could, in
principle, be predicted with standard quantum mechanics."

Oh of course they HAVE to say this. Defeating establishment science it a
"forbidden" topic. It's like finding life on Mars that is beyond
bacteria. It just isn't permitted.

Oh, please tell us more about life on Mars.

On Tue, 25 Dec 2012 18:23:34 -0500, HVAC wrote:

On 12/25/2012 4:52 PM, benj wrote:


The mpc pilot wave theory may have some problems at this point, but at
least it has FAR more logic to it than the nonsense that trys to pass
for physics with regard to the light diffraction problem. Even Einstein
admitted that light was a puzzle to him. And it still is. But at least
the aether theory begins to look at just HOW light could be particles
and STILL have trajectories that are solutions of the wave equation.


OK I'll put you down as being on the side that has as it's leader,
MP3....A loon with a sever case of OCD.

Unlike you, ACDC,I'm always on the side of truth, justice and the
American way.

I wouldn't exactly call MP3 its "leader". More like "loudest".