What all big dieal about Soyuz?

In article , James Oberg wrote:

if the russians hadn't been partners, ISS would have looked different (and
yes, i argue it would have still existed) -- and maybe the shuttle upgrades
and safety projects wouldn't have been stripped bare to pay for 'surprise'
overruns caused by russian non-performance.

I don't think that's an entirely fair comment. RKA (the Russian Space
Agency for those here who don't know) may have made their fair share
of bungling... but I don't think NASA exactly comes out smelling like
roses -- for instance, Henry Spencer once pointed out that NASA hadn't
done actual integration tests between two nodes of the ISS until close
to launch time after someone belatedly suggested it.

Very fortunate this happened because I seem to recollect that they found
(and fixed) a serious issue that may have had been a show-stopper in space.

I can't seem to find that post right now - it was several years ago.

There's also a certain amount of natural tendency to publically assign
blame to partners but then play down any public view of one's own faults -
typical jockeying-for-power in any human relationship; in marriage or
in running an international space station. :-)

I should also point out that the U.S. entered into this multilateral plan
for ISS well knowing the capabilities of the various partners based on
years (and in some cases, decades) of historical experience with various
now-ISS-partners; *especially* the Russians, and were also aware that in a
post-Cold War economy, they had some real funding issues (for starters)
along with political and cultural approaches to space programs.

-Dan

"Dan Foster
NASA hadn't
done actual integration tests between two nodes of the ISS until close
to launch time after someone belatedly suggested it.

Likewise no end-to-end test was done on Hubble because, in their world, it would
have added ten or twenty million to the cost.

Now they are going to launch the infrared Webb Telescope into a LaGrainge orbit
that canned be reached for service. If experience is any guide, one or two of
the optical detectors aren't going to work when it gets there.......we need
Hallerb to weigh in on this.

Now they are going to launch the infrared Webb Telescope into a LaGrainge
orbit
that canned be reached for service. If experience is any guide, one or two
of
the optical detectors aren't going to work when it gets there.......we need
Hallerb to weigh in on this.


I see two issues, first Hubble must be kept operational till Webb is up and
running successfully/

I think it will have a problem and nasa another black eye. Tats why its
important to move on and build a launch system that is not stuck in LEO.

How many failures cal NASA tolerate before congress gets even for it?

Certinally the marspobes on their way better work.....

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Foster"
I should also point out that the U.S. entered into this multilateral plan
for ISS well knowing the capabilities of the various partners based on
years (and in some cases, decades) of historical experience with various
now-ISS-partners; *especially* the Russians, and were also aware that in a
post-Cold War economy, they had some real funding issues (for starters)
along with political and cultural approaches to space programs.


Point out all you like, there's no evidence that the NASA officials involved
in the bring-on-the-Russians plan had any knowledge of real Russian space
experience aside from clippings from AvWeek. In fact, the Russian side
explicitly demanded that NASA only use officials who HAD no such
knowledge,,. and NASA complied.

"rk" wrote in message
Ignorant question: Were any of the ASTP engineers and managers around
for the "bring-on-the-Russians" plan? There was quite a bit of insight
into technical, procedural, and management approaches learned there.
This is clear from reading ASAP reports from the 1970s. Good insightful
references on ASTP would be appreciated.

Well, I could write a book on this subject... No, wait,
I already did.

'Star-Crossed Orbits' (McGraw-Hill, 2002)

Read the chapter on the birth of the partnership, and see if it answers your
questions,
and provides clues on the distribution of ignorance.