Two dumb questions

George Dishman wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
...
"I shall try to correct errors when shown to be errors, and I shall
adopt new views so fast as they shall appear to be true views."

Then when will you accept that the seasons in
the hemispheres differ now that Klazmon has
confirmed that it is currently winter in the
southern hemisphere and I have confirmed it
is summer here in northern hemisphere?

You continue to preach a message that has
been proven to be wrong beyond all possible
doubt and you will consequently continue to
be ignored by those who know the facts.

George


You can squirm all you like with hemispherical terms such as
summer/winter but the global cause for seasonal change is not a
variation in axial tilt for either the seasons or the Equation of Time.

Those with a shred of common sense should know by now that the axial
orientation of the Earth remains fixed and cannot affect any change to
the Sun or to the orbital plane.

The sole responsibility for the error lies with 18th century
cataloguers and their theorist cronies who managed to mangle the
indepedent axial and orbital motions into a single sidereal motion.

Obviously nobody takes climate change seriously insofar as if none of
you can get the correct attribution for the annual cyclical climate
change correct then God help humanity.

Not one of you know how to make the necessary compromises for being too
greedy for too long breeds the kind of hatred that would rather
continue with a lie such as variation in axial tilt that actually
correct the matter.

One man standing for you and Silverlight no longer count .

wrote in message
ups.com...


George Dishman wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
...
"I shall try to correct errors when shown to be errors, and I shall
adopt new views so fast as they shall appear to be true views."

Then when will you accept that the seasons in
the hemispheres differ now that Klazmon has
confirmed that it is currently winter in the
southern hemisphere and I have confirmed it
is summer here in northern hemisphere?

You continue to preach a message that has
been proven to be wrong beyond all possible
doubt and you will consequently continue to
be ignored by those who know the facts.

You can squirm all you like with hemispherical terms such as
summer/winter but the global cause for seasonal change

You are the one squirming because Llanzlan
has confirmed that seasonal changes are NOT
global as your suggestion requires therefore
your philosophy is proven to be wrong.

If you don't understand the terms, simply
note that one hemisphere experiences its
highest temperatures of a year while the
other experiences its lowest.

is not a
variation in axial tilt for either the seasons or the Equation of Time.

Those with a shred of common sense should know by now that the axial
orientation of the Earth remains fixed and cannot affect any change to
the Sun or to the orbital plane.

Of course it remains fixed, it is always at the
same angle of 23.5 degrees to the orbital plane.
That plus Kepler's _First_ Law, which you seem
to be incapable of understanding, causes the
seasons.

The sole responsibility for the error lies with 18th century
cataloguers and their theorist cronies who managed to mangle the
indepedent axial and orbital motions into a single sidereal motion.

Obviously nobody takes climate change seriously insofar as if none of
you can get the correct attribution for the annual cyclical climate
change correct then God help humanity.

Not one of you know how to make the necessary compromises for being too
greedy for too long breeds the kind of hatred that would rather
continue with a lie such as variation in axial tilt that actually
correct the matter.

The lie is yours, the tilt is constant, it is
the angle between Polaris and Nu Draconis, and
any competent astronomer knows the seasons are
due to that and Kepler's _First_ Law.

One man standing for you and Silverlight no longer count .

One man who lives in the southern hemisphere
telling you what season it is there completely
invalidates your views. This isn't a question of
one person supporting an opinion, he is telling
you an unarguable fact as a first hand observer.
You can bury your head in the sand forever but
your naive interpretation is shown to be false
by his evidence and you will always be ignored
as ignorant and delusional as a result.

George

George Dishman wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...


George Dishman wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
...
"I shall try to correct errors when shown to be errors, and I shall
adopt new views so fast as they shall appear to be true views."

Then when will you accept that the seasons in
the hemispheres differ now that Klazmon has
confirmed that it is currently winter in the
southern hemisphere and I have confirmed it
is summer here in northern hemisphere?

You continue to preach a message that has
been proven to be wrong beyond all possible
doubt and you will consequently continue to
be ignored by those who know the facts.

You can squirm all you like with hemispherical terms such as
summer/winter but the global cause for seasonal change

You are the one squirming because Llanzlan
has confirmed that seasonal changes are NOT
global as your suggestion requires therefore
your philosophy is proven to be wrong.

If you don't understand the terms, simply
note that one hemisphere experiences its
highest temperatures of a year while the
other experiences its lowest.

is not a
variation in axial tilt for either the seasons or the Equation of Time.

Those with a shred of common sense should know by now that the axial
orientation of the Earth remains fixed and cannot affect any change to
the Sun or to the orbital plane.

Of course it remains fixed, it is always at the
same angle of 23.5 degrees to the orbital plane.
That plus Kepler's _First_ Law, which you seem
to be incapable of understanding, causes the
seasons.

The sole responsibility for the error lies with 18th century
cataloguers and their theorist cronies who managed to mangle the
indepedent axial and orbital motions into a single sidereal motion.

Obviously nobody takes climate change seriously insofar as if none of
you can get the correct attribution for the annual cyclical climate
change correct then God help humanity.

Not one of you know how to make the necessary compromises for being too
greedy for too long breeds the kind of hatred that would rather
continue with a lie such as variation in axial tilt that actually
correct the matter.

The lie is yours, the tilt is constant, it is
the angle between Polaris and Nu Draconis, and
any competent astronomer knows the seasons are
due to that and Kepler's _First_ Law.

One man standing for you and Silverlight no longer count .

One man who lives in the southern hemisphere
telling you what season it is there completely
invalidates your views. This isn't a question of
one person supporting an opinion, he is telling
you an unarguable fact as a first hand observer.
You can bury your head in the sand forever but
your naive interpretation is shown to be false
by his evidence and you will always be ignored
as ignorant and delusional as a result.

George

At least the 18th century cataloguers had a clear reason (Longitude
problem) for their incredible act of vandalism they visited on the
exquisite Equation of Time principles which is the bridge between the
natural unequal day and the 24 hour clocks day.

The numbskulls had to fudge the Equation of Time principles which fix
the pace of the equable 24 hour day at 15 degrees per hour to axial
rotation so they introduced the analemma or axial tilt towards the Sun.

Anyone who remains silent on that act of vandalism,at least those who
become familiar with theis great human injustice at the expense of the
first heliocentrists are the absolute dregs of humanity for whether you
care to know it or not,today and tomorrow you will use the Equation of
Time principles.

The following explanation by NASA astrophysicists is incredible for the
same vacuousness that you seem prepared to live your lives and infect
your kids with.Have a good look at these fools as they go about with
their hemmispherical Earth explanation -








The Question
(Submitted January 16, 1998)

I have a question regarding sunrise and sunset. I realize that the
winter solstice on 21Dec is the shortest day of the year. Since this
date, the days have been gradually getting longer. Sunset has been
getting gradually later as expected, however, sunrise continued to come
later until the first week in Jan. My question is: what is the cause of
this asymmetrical distribution of daylight between sunrise and sunset?


The Answer
This is due to a phenomenon called "the equation of time".
Solar day is the length of time between one local noon (when the Sun is
highest in the sky) to the next. As it turns out, the length of the
solar day is not always 24 hrs (its average over the course of a year
defines 24 hrs). The solar day would always be 24 hrs if the Sun
'moves' east against the background of fixed stars at a constant rate
(for convenience, astronomers have invented 'Mean Sun' to do exactly
that). The real Sun moves at a variable rate, however,


Because of the tilt of the Earth rotation axis relative to its orbit
around the Sun (the obliquity), the same reason as for the changing
length of daytime hours.
Because the Earth's orbit is elliptical and so it moves faster at
perihelion (around Jan 2) than at aphelion (Jul 3).
Both effects combine to create an offset in the time of local noon (and
those of sunrise and sunset) by as much as +/- 16 min: this is the
equation of time. Around winter solstice, the daily change in the
equation of time happens to be more important than the daily change in
the length of the day, causing the phenomenon you so keenly observed.

The equation of time is often represented by a figure 8. That figure is
called an 'analemma'. There is an actual photograph of an analemma at
http://sundials.org/links/local/pages/dicicco.htm, which was taken by
Dennis di Cicco.


I hope this helps,

Koji Mukai, David Palmer, and Tim Kallman
For the Ask an Astrophysicist Team


http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/as...s/980116c.html

wrote in message
oups.com...


George Dishman wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...


George Dishman wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
...
"I shall try to correct errors when shown to be errors, and I shall
adopt new views so fast as they shall appear to be true views."

Then when will you accept that the seasons in
the hemispheres differ now that Klazmon has
confirmed that it is currently winter in the
southern hemisphere and I have confirmed it
is summer here in northern hemisphere?

You continue to preach a message that has
been proven to be wrong beyond all possible
doubt and you will consequently continue to
be ignored by those who know the facts.

You can squirm all you like with hemispherical terms such as
summer/winter but the global cause for seasonal change

You are the one squirming because Llanzlan
has confirmed that seasonal changes are NOT
global as your suggestion requires therefore
your philosophy is proven to be wrong.

If you don't understand the terms, simply
note that one hemisphere experiences its
highest temperatures of a year while the
other experiences its lowest.

is not a
variation in axial tilt for either the seasons or the Equation of Time.

Those with a shred of common sense should know by now that the axial
orientation of the Earth remains fixed and cannot affect any change to
the Sun or to the orbital plane.

Of course it remains fixed, it is always at the
same angle of 23.5 degrees to the orbital plane.
That plus Kepler's _First_ Law, which you seem
to be incapable of understanding, causes the
seasons.

The sole responsibility for the error lies with 18th century
cataloguers and their theorist cronies who managed to mangle the
indepedent axial and orbital motions into a single sidereal motion.

Obviously nobody takes climate change seriously insofar as if none of
you can get the correct attribution for the annual cyclical climate
change correct then God help humanity.

Not one of you know how to make the necessary compromises for being too
greedy for too long breeds the kind of hatred that would rather
continue with a lie such as variation in axial tilt that actually
correct the matter.

The lie is yours, the tilt is constant, it is
the angle between Polaris and Nu Draconis, and
any competent astronomer knows the seasons are
due to that and Kepler's _First_ Law.

One man standing for you and Silverlight no longer count .

One man who lives in the southern hemisphere
telling you what season it is there completely
invalidates your views. This isn't a question of
one person supporting an opinion, he is telling
you an unarguable fact as a first hand observer.
You can bury your head in the sand forever but
your naive interpretation is shown to be false
by his evidence and you will always be ignored
as ignorant and delusional as a result.

At least the 18th century cataloguers had a clear reason (Longitude
problem) for their incredible act of vandalism they visited on the
exquisite Equation of Time principles which is the bridge between the
natural unequal day and the 24 hour clocks day.

The numbskulls had to fudge the Equation of Time principles which fix
the pace of the equable 24 hour day at 15 degrees per hour to axial
rotation so they introduced the analemma or axial tilt towards the Sun.

Anyone who remains silent on that act of vandalism,at least those who
become familiar with theis great human injustice at the expense of the
first heliocentrists are the absolute dregs of humanity for whether you
care to know it or not,today and tomorrow you will use the Equation of
Time principles.

Still dodging the question Gerald, why is it currently
winter in Australia when it is summer here? Until you
can answer that, your views are divorced from reality.

The following explanation by NASA astrophysicists is incredible for the
same vacuousness that you seem prepared to live your lives and infect
your kids with.Have a good look at these fools as they go about with
their hemmispherical Earth explanation -

As for your link, you cannot even find something on the
topic. This should explain at a suitable level:

http://kids.msfc.nasa.gov/earth/seas...rthSeasons.asp

Switch on your sound, the explanation is verbal.

Polaris would be far off the screen to the top right
in the direction pointed to by the axis drawn through
the Earth. Nu Draconis would be far above the screen
and vertically above the Sun so the angle between them
is fixed.

Note that the motion of the Earth around the Sun is in
accord with the principle of Copernicus and the path
it takes is given by Kepler's First Law. If you don't
understand Kepler's First Law, Gerald, you cannot think
of yourself as a serious astronomer.

George

To George

The Earth orbital orientation (designated by the line division between
direct sunlight and its orbital shadow) turns in accordance with
Kepler's second law over the course of an annual orbit ,this change can
be inferred the same way orbital motion as an indepedent motion
inferred directly through observation -

http://www.opencourse.info/astronomy...turn_retro.gif

Taking a polar view of this change in indepedent orbital orientation
using Kepler's second law -

http://www.mhhe.com/physsci/astronom...ages/04f15.jpg

It is that change in orbital orientation passing through fixed axial
orientation that causes daylight/darkness asymmetry and seasonal
changes .

Terrestial axial longitudes run parallel with orbital orientation at
dawn and dusk on the Equinox but this astronomical alignment is lost
to those who maintain a variation in axial tilt to the Sun as something
observed and actual.It cannot be because this image dictates otherwise-

http://homepage.mac.com/tarashnat/as.../0001-08a.jpeg

Maybe Western civilisation is finished when it acts like a cancer on
what should be a simple extension of the work of the early
heliocentrists.Astronomers ?,I do not see any astronomers for that
discipline is for the sincere and generous of heart.Who today can
honestly count themselves as one for there is nothing remotely
difficult in adjusting to a change in orbital orientation as seperate
to fixed axial tilt.

wrote in message
ups.com...
To George

The Earth orbital orientation (designated by the line division between
direct sunlight and its orbital shadow)

Gerald, there is no indication of sunlight and shadow
on the diagram you cite below. The shaded areas are
only to illustrate "equal areas".

turns in accordance with
Kepler's second law over the course of an annual orbit

That is too simplistic. The second law only gives the
rate at which the Earth moves along the orbital path.
The shape of the orbit as an ellipse with the Sun at
one focus is given by the _first_ law and it is the
motion of the Earth around the Sun first described
by Copernicus combined with the fixed tilt of the
axis of rotation that produces the seasons. Watch how
the Earth moves round the Sun in the animation below.

Taking a polar view of this change in indepedent orbital orientation
using Kepler's second law -

http://www.mhhe.com/physsci/astronom...ages/04f15.jpg

It is that change in orbital orientation passing through fixed axial
orientation that causes daylight/darkness asymmetry and seasonal
changes .

That is impossible since it would now be summer in
Australia and you have been told it is winter. Why
do you insist on demonstrating your ignorance by
constantly repeating something that has been proven
to be wrong? Listen carefully to this lecture on
how Copernicus' model produces the seasons if you
want to gain some basic understanding:

http://kids.msfc.nasa.gov/earth/seas...rthSeasons.asp

George

George Dishman wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...
To George

The Earth orbital orientation (designated by the line division between
direct sunlight and its orbital shadow)

Gerald, there is no indication of sunlight and shadow
on the diagram you cite below. The shaded areas are
only to illustrate "equal areas".


Many do not have a feel for the material yet to others this will need
little explaining and they can fill in the numerous different
principles without prompting,diagrams or graphics.

The arrows in the diagram representing the change in orbital
orientation as the Earth orbits the Sun is designated in reality by the
division representing Sunlight and the Earth's orbital shadow.

http://geophysics.ou.edu/solid_earth...from_space.jpg

The arrows representing the change in orbital orientation from a polar
perspective indicate that this motion passing through a fixed axial
orientation generates seasonal changes.



turns in accordance with
Kepler's second law over the course of an annual orbit

That is too simplistic. The second law only gives the
rate at which the Earth moves along the orbital path.
The shape of the orbit as an ellipse with the Sun at
one focus is given by the _first_ law and it is the
motion of the Earth around the Sun first described
by Copernicus combined with the fixed tilt of the
axis of rotation that produces the seasons. Watch how
the Earth moves round the Sun in the animation below.


I went through months explaining how the early heliocentrists adapted
the equable 24 hour day to indepedent axial rotation at 15 degrees per
hour and 24 hours/360 degrees in total while you lot swear blind that
the value is 23 hours 56 min 04 sec working off the celestial sphere.

I am not doing this again but if you lot can live with hemispherical
explanations of axial variations to the orbital plane and the Sun then
good for you.

You spent a year arguing for variations in axial tilt to the Sun for
the Equation of Time purposes and now change your tune but I do not do
retail anymore you miserable creep,I can use you to show that
insincerity and incompetence is almost pandemic.



Taking a polar view of this change in indepedent orbital orientation
using Kepler's second law -

http://www.mhhe.com/physsci/astronom...ages/04f15.jpg

It is that change in orbital orientation passing through fixed axial
orientation that causes daylight/darkness asymmetry and seasonal
changes .

That is impossible since it would now be summer in
Australia and you have been told it is winter. Why
do you insist on demonstrating your ignorance by
constantly repeating something that has been proven
to be wrong? Listen carefully to this lecture on
how Copernicus' model produces the seasons if you
want to gain some basic understanding:

http://kids.msfc.nasa.gov/earth/seas...rthSeasons.asp

George

I do not condescend to anyone,in all areas of human endeavor whether it
is music,sport,artists,ect people cannot bluff and bluster and call
their works achievements when humanity can judge and appreciate openly
human achievements.

The early heliocentrists, in explaing retrograde motions of the other
planets by using the Earth's orbital motion thus infering
heliocentricity is up there with the greatest of human achievements
that anyone can understand when presented with the footage and the
explanation

http://www.opencourse.info/astronomy...urn_retro.gif-

Galileo

[Here Salviati explains Jupiter's motion, then follows with:]



Now what is said here of Jupiter is to be understood of Saturn and Mars
also. In Saturn these retrogressions are somewhat more frequent than in
Jupiter, because its motion is slower than Jupiter's, so that the Earth
overtakes it in a shorter time. In Mars they are rarer, its motion
being faster than that of Jupiter, so that the Earth spends more time
in catching up with it. Next, as to Venus and Mercury, whose circles
are included within that of the Earth, stoppings and retrograde motions
appear in them also, due not to any motion that really exists in them,
but to the annual motion of the Earth. This is acutely demonstrated by
Copernicus . . .

1632, Dialogue Concerning the Two Chief World Systems

http://vms.cc.wmich.edu/~mcgrew/chain.htm

Watch as the exquisite reasoning collapses because a mathematician
(Newton) like you,with no feeling for the material,jumped from observed
retrograde motion to a speculative observer on the Sun.

"For to the earth they appear sometimes direct, sometimes stationary,
nay, and sometimes retrograde. But from the sun they are always seen
direct, and to proceed with a motion nearly uniform, that is to say, a
little swifter in the perihelion and a little slower in the aphelion
distances,"

http://members.tripod.com/~gravitee/phaenomena.htm

It takes only a small effort to see the difference between Galileo's
explanation and Newton's but then again,it appears that few have the
feeling for even seeing that there is a difference.

There are compromises but you miserable creeps would prefer to live
with insincerity than actually find out how to set things right.

In message . com,
writes

Terrestial axial longitudes run parallel with orbital orientation at
dawn and dusk on the Equinox but this astronomical alignment is lost
to those who maintain a variation in axial tilt to the Sun as something
observed and actual.It cannot be because this image dictates otherwise-

http://homepage.mac.com/tarashnat/as.../0001-08a.jpeg


Do you get paid when someone goes to that link? :-) I can't imagine any
other reason to post it over and over again. Taken by itself, it doesn't
even prove that the Earth rotates on its axis :-)
Actually, it does show that the Earth's axis is tilted by a constant
amount, and sometimes points in the direction of the Sun as the Earth
goes through a revolution. You could not take that picture from North of
the Arctic Circle in summer, because you would be in perpetual daylight.
Look at John Walker's excellent Home Planet program
http://www.fourmilab.ch, for instance. And look at this suitably
elementary page
http://intranet.rocklizard.org/astronomyclass/planetil.htm. Perhaps
you will email the author to correct him (her ?) Be sure to post the
reply :-)

Perhaps you could explain the images in this page
http://www.analemma.de/english/analem.html which provide an insight
into the Equation of Time you are so confused about.

George, I think whatever is posting has failed the Turing test. It just
posts the same irrelevant links over and over again. Like an ELIZA
program that has gone outside its parameters :-)

In message .com,
writes

http://geophysics.ou.edu/solid_earth...ides/earth_fro
m_space.jpg

The arrows representing the change in orbital orientation from a polar
perspective indicate that this motion passing through a fixed axial
orientation generates seasonal changes.

Looks as though the Gerald Kelleher program has loaded the wrong
subroutine. We do know that the Earth is round :-)


I went through months explaining how the early heliocentrists adapted
the equable 24 hour day to indepedent axial rotation at 15 degrees per
hour and 24 hours/360 degrees in total while you lot swear blind that
the value is 23 hours 56 min 04 sec working off the celestial sphere.

I am not doing this again

I think you just did :-) Yet again, 23 hours 56 minutes in one sidereal
day, 24 hours in one solar day to allow for a little extra rotation as
the Earth goes round the Sun. It couldn't be simpler.

I am not doing this again but if you lot can live with hemispherical
explanations of axial variations to the orbital plane and the Sun then
good for you.

Actually you are the only one talking about variations in orbital
orientation. Relative to what (again)? I've already posted one link for
you, but here's another
http://dutch.phys.strath.ac.uk/CommP...rs/rotationalp
roperties.htm.

Jonathan Silverlight wrote:
In message . com,
writes

Terrestial axial longitudes run parallel with orbital orientation at
dawn and dusk on the Equinox but this astronomical alignment is lost
to those who maintain a variation in axial tilt to the Sun as something
observed and actual.It cannot be because this image dictates otherwise-

http://homepage.mac.com/tarashnat/as.../0001-08a.jpeg


Do you get paid when someone goes to that link? :-) I can't imagine any
other reason to post it over and over again. Taken by itself, it doesn't
even prove that the Earth rotates on its axis :-)
Actually, it does show that the Earth's axis is tilted by a constant
amount, and sometimes points in the direction of the Sun as the Earth
goes through a revolution.

You are like George and countless others in that you do not have a
natural feel for the astronomical material and what you wrote is just
about typical for theorists and cataloguers.

The link showing axial tilt is fixed is most important insofar as the
actual cause for seasonal changes is at 90 degrees to where
contemporary explanations have it.The Earth does not tilt towards or
away from the Sun therefore seasonal variations based on hemispherical
tilt descriptions are just a step above a flat Earth description.

The participant OG at least left room open to clarify what I meant by
change in orbital orientation and if it is not clear to him or anyone
else by now, they are free to stick with variations in axial tilt to
the orbital plane just as all contemporary descriptions have it.





You could not take that picture from North of
the Arctic Circle in summer, because you would be in perpetual daylight.
Look at John Walker's excellent Home Planet program
http://www.fourmilab.ch, for instance. And look at this suitably
elementary page
http://intranet.rocklizard.org/astronomyclass/planetil.htm. Perhaps
you will email the author to correct him (her ?) Be sure to post the
reply :-)

Perhaps you could explain the images in this page
http://www.analemma.de/english/analem.html which provide an insight
into the Equation of Time you are so confused about.

George, I think whatever is posting has failed the Turing test. It just
posts the same irrelevant links over and over again. Like an ELIZA
program that has gone outside its parameters :-)

It is really funny when theorists try to comprehend astronomical
material and especially the most lovable and exquisite astronomical
device that forms a bridge between the natural unequal day and the 24
hour clock day.

You,George and everyone else will use the exquisite principles of axial
rotation at 24 hours/360 degrees today,tomorrow and for as long as you
live.The lovable Equation of Time principles which generate the equable
24 hour day from the natural unequal day were adapted by the first
heliocentrists to the newly discoveredinsight of independent axial
rotation at 15 degrees per hour and 24 hoyurs/360 degrees in total.

Miserable creeps like yourself and George,like suicide bombers,throw
yourselves into justifying the awful maneuvering of 18th century
cataloguers in tying the celestial sphere to terrestial longitudes and
arriving at a different value for axial rotation -

http://hypertextbook.com/facts/1999/JennyChen.shtml

See how successful you are and how the world believes you !.


What are you going to do,sit there are gloat that although you may be
wrong at least the world will never find out,what a ****ing miserable
life that must be.