Falcon 9 - how are they going to get crew up to the Dragon when crewedlaunches begin?

Build a tower, use a 'cherry-picker' or use a crane?

On Dec 8, 8:35*am, Alan Erskine wrote:
Build a tower, use a 'cherry-picker' or use a crane?

i would assume a roll back tower for easy access and esy escape.

how does soyuz do it?

On 9/12/2010 12:40 AM, bob haller safety advocate wrote:
On Dec 8, 8:35 am, Alan wrote:
Build a tower, use a 'cherry-picker' or use a crane?

i would assume a roll back tower for easy access and esy escape.

how does soyuz do it?

I think they do it from the strong-back, but I'm not sure.

In sci.space.shuttle message
igpond.com, Thu, 9 Dec 2010 00:35:36, Alan Erskine
posted:

Build a tower, use a 'cherry-picker' or use a crane?


I suggest steps such as are used in aircraft, but on double pairs of
rails for mobility. When the entry support crew has left, pull
something like a giant steel tape-measure up the steps, forming an
escape chute. At Falcon T=-0.5 seconds, light a splayed pair of JATO
bottles to move the steps back - or a rope with windlass powered by a
big Catherine Wheel,

--
(c) John Stockton, nr London, UK. Turnpike v6.05 MIME.
Web http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/ - FAQqish topics, acronyms and links;
Astro stuff via astron-1.htm, gravity0.htm ; quotings.htm, pascal.htm, etc.
No Encoding. Quotes before replies. Snip well. Write clearly. Don't Mail News.

On 10/12/2010 9:40 AM, Dr J R Stockton wrote:
In sci.space.shuttle
igpond.com, Thu, 9 Dec 2010 00:35:36, Alan Erskine
posted:

Build a tower, use a 'cherry-picker' or use a crane?


I suggest steps such as are used in aircraft, but on double pairs of
rails for mobility. When the entry support crew has left, pull
something like a giant steel tape-measure up the steps, forming an
escape chute. At Falcon T=-0.5 seconds, light a splayed pair of JATO
bottles to move the steps back - or a rope with windlass powered by a
big Catherine Wheel,


Steps? That's a 50m climb - about 15 stories! That's a hell-of-a climb.
With steps, you'd have problems moving them back fast enough and might
tip them _into_ the launch vehicle if it wasn't weighted properly.

On Thu, 09 Dec 2010 00:35:36 +1100, Alan Erskine
wrote:

Build a tower, use a 'cherry-picker' or use a crane?

I don't see any way around them building a new launch pad. Cherry
Pickers and Cranes are no good, the crew has to be able to evacuate
fast, so they'll need a bonafide service tower... something much more
tangible than the current strongback. Problem is, they'll have to take
LC-40 down for something like a year to install all those new systems
and upgrades (it took ULA a year to make much less ambitious repairs
and upgrades at LC-37 in 2008.) and with Falcon 9/Dragon being their
bread and butter, SpaceX can't afford to take LC-40 down for a year.
New pad... probably at LC-39.

Brian

On 11/12/2010 4:18 PM, Brian Thorn wrote:
On Thu, 09 Dec 2010 00:35:36 +1100, Alan Erskine
wrote:

Build a tower, use a 'cherry-picker' or use a crane?

I don't see any way around them building a new launch pad. Cherry
Pickers and Cranes are no good, the crew has to be able to evacuate
fast, so they'll need a bonafide service tower... something much more
tangible than the current strongback. Problem is, they'll have to take
LC-40 down for something like a year to install all those new systems
and upgrades (it took ULA a year to make much less ambitious repairs
and upgrades at LC-37 in 2008.) and with Falcon 9/Dragon being their
bread and butter, SpaceX can't afford to take LC-40 down for a year.
New pad... probably at LC-39.

Brian

But Pad 37 had been out of service for much longer - hadn't been used
since the early days of Apollo.

LC-40 was in use two years (or so) ago (?), so not everything needed to
be replaced.

Also, a prefabricated system could be build, much like a smaller version
of the LC-39 tower and then simply bolted into place, section on top of
section.

Alan Erskine formuleerde op zaterdag :
On 11/12/2010 4:18 PM, Brian Thorn wrote:
On Thu, 09 Dec 2010 00:35:36 +1100, Alan Erskine
wrote:

Build a tower, use a 'cherry-picker' or use a crane?

I don't see any way around them building a new launch pad. Cherry
Pickers and Cranes are no good, the crew has to be able to evacuate
fast, so they'll need a bonafide service tower... something much more
tangible than the current strongback. Problem is, they'll have to take
LC-40 down for something like a year to install all those new systems
and upgrades (it took ULA a year to make much less ambitious repairs
and upgrades at LC-37 in 2008.) and with Falcon 9/Dragon being their
bread and butter, SpaceX can't afford to take LC-40 down for a year.
New pad... probably at LC-39.

Brian

But Pad 37 had been out of service for much longer - hadn't been used since
the early days of Apollo.
I think you meant LC-34. Last launch there was in 1968. This was also
the pas where the crew of Apollo 1 was killed.

Last launch at LC-37 was may this year.

On Sun, 12 Dec 2010 00:07:51 +1100, Alan Erskine
wrote:

(it took ULA a year to make much less ambitious repairs
and upgrades at LC-37 in 2008.) and with Falcon 9/Dragon being their
bread and butter, SpaceX can't afford to take LC-40 down for a year.
New pad... probably at LC-39.

But Pad 37 had been out of service for much longer - hadn't been used
since the early days of Apollo.

Boeing rebuilt LC-37B in the late 1990s and it saw its first Delta IV
launch in 2002. Boeing had to modify and repair the pad in 2008, and
there were no launches from LC-37 at all in 2008.

LC-40 was in use two years (or so) ago (?), so not everything needed to
be replaced.

LC-40's last Titan IV launch was in 2005. SpaceX took over the pad in
2007. First Falcon 9 launch was in 2010.

Also, a prefabricated system could be build, much like a smaller version
of the LC-39 tower and then simply bolted into place, section on top of
section.

Still will take a year, at least.

Brian

On Sat, 11 Dec 2010 16:47:25 +0100, André, PE1PQX
wrote:

I don't see any way around them building a new launch pad.

But Pad 37 had been out of service for much longer - hadn't been used since
the early days of Apollo.

I think you meant LC-34. Last launch there was in 1968. This was also
the pas where the crew of Apollo 1 was killed.

Last launch at LC-37 was may this year.

November 21st.

But no, Alan misunderstood. I wasn't referring to how long it took
Boeing to rebuild LC-37 from its Saturn IB days (1998-2001), I was
referring to the year it was offline for repairs (2008).

Brian