What do you define as a space station?

A while ago, I was talking with a friend who is no space expert more of
layman when it comes to all things space related.

We where discussing the China's Shenzhou spacecraft and how they could
build a very small station from a series of orbital modules.
He said that wasn't a station it was a series of 'tin cans'.
He does not think of MIR or ISS as a station either just another series
of 'tin cans' strung together. The Salyut as just one off disposable
capsules. At first he considered Skylab to be a space station until I
told him that it was launched with all its supplies and could not be
easily resupplied. Then he refered to Skylab as just a 'big can'. I
thought about mentioning to him that MIR & ISS could be resupplied with
fuel from the progress and water from the shuttle, but when my friend
forms an opinion its sometimes hard to change it and I didn't realy
want to get into an argument with him over ISS of all things! ;^)
Someday I'll ask him for what his definition of space station is.
Where the Salyut stations refuelable/resuppliable?
Personally I consider Skylab/Salyut/MIR/ISS as space stations.
But I admit calling an Shenzhou orbital module(or two linked together)
a 'space station' is a bit of a stretch. It would be a very small/tiny
station of limited utility. Only good for gaining experience in
working & assembling them.

So my question is what is your definition of 'space station'?


Just my $0.02

Space Cadet

derwetzelsDASHspacecadetATyahooDOTcom


Moon Society - St. Louis Chapter

http://www.moonsociety.org/chapters/stlouis/

The Moon Society is a non-profit educational and
scientific foundation formed to further scientific
study and development of the moon.

Space Cadet ) wrote:
: A while ago, I was talking with a friend who is no space expert more of
: layman when it comes to all things space related.

: We where discussing the China's Shenzhou spacecraft and how they could
: build a very small station from a series of orbital modules.
: He said that wasn't a station it was a series of 'tin cans'.
: He does not think of MIR or ISS as a station either just another series
: of 'tin cans' strung together. The Salyut as just one off disposable
: capsules. At first he considered Skylab to be a space station until I
: told him that it was launched with all its supplies and could not be
: easily resupplied. Then he refered to Skylab as just a 'big can'. I
: thought about mentioning to him that MIR & ISS could be resupplied with
: fuel from the progress and water from the shuttle, but when my friend
: forms an opinion its sometimes hard to change it and I didn't realy
: want to get into an argument with him over ISS of all things! ;^)
: Someday I'll ask him for what his definition of space station is.
: Where the Salyut stations refuelable/resuppliable?
: Personally I consider Skylab/Salyut/MIR/ISS as space stations.
: But I admit calling an Shenzhou orbital module(or two linked together)
: a 'space station' is a bit of a stretch. It would be a very small/tiny
: station of limited utility. Only good for gaining experience in
: working & assembling them.

: So my question is what is your definition of 'space station'?

Same as yours. "I consider Skylab/Salyut/MIR/ISS as space stations."

Eric

: Just my $0.02

: Space Cadet

: derwetzelsDASHspacecadetATyahooDOTcom


: Moon Society - St. Louis Chapter

: http://www.moonsociety.org/chapters/stlouis/

: The Moon Society is a non-profit educational and
: scientific foundation formed to further scientific
: study and development of the moon.

Those O'Neill cylinders look a bit like tin cans.

On 12 Oct 2005 07:07:01 -0700, "Space Cadet" wrote:

Someday I'll ask him for what his definition of space station is.

That should have come first.

Where the Salyut stations refuelable/resuppliable?
Personally I consider Skylab/Salyut/MIR/ISS as space stations.
But I admit calling an Shenzhou orbital module(or two linked together)
a 'space station' is a bit of a stretch. It would be a very small/tiny
station of limited utility. Only good for gaining experience in
working & assembling them.

So my question is what is your definition of 'space station'?

A shirtsleeve environment maintained in orbit and visited at
intervals.

-- Roy L

So my question is what is your definition of 'space station'?



I'd define a space "station" as a vessel with limited autonomy, capable of
keeping a person alive for more than 2 weeks with no outside input. That
requires a means of generating electricity, regulating temperature, and
scrubbing the atmosphere. But requires regular resupply.

I'd define a space "habitat" as a vessel with almost complete autonomy
(nothing's completely autonomous, but a timescale of years vs. weeks). A
virtually closed loop for food and atmosphere.

By this definition, I'm not sure what a Shenzhou orbital module can do. I
know it can generate electricity, but does it have independent atmospheric
scrubbers and environmental controls?

"S. Wand" wrote in message
...
So my question is what is your definition of 'space station'?



I'd define a space "station" as a vessel with limited autonomy, capable of
keeping a person alive for more than 2 weeks with no outside input. That
requires a means of generating electricity, regulating temperature, and
scrubbing the atmosphere. But requires regular resupply.

More than 2 weeks? Like a space shuttle? Or almost a Gemini.

A space station is a space habitat - capable of supporting a significant
population of humans in comfort indefinitely. Such humans should be able to
go about normal human activities, in a normal human way (no pooing into a
plastic bag for example)
As such artificial gravity is a must, and the only way we can think to do
that now is via Von Braun wheel.
This sets a minimum size so that coriolis forces and tidal forces don't
impinge noticibly - about 1km diameter.
Other parameters are set by the current limits of technology and
engineering, but are eminently doable.

So - we have not had anything like a space station yet, and until the
Chinese put one up, we won't be seeing one any time soon.


"Space Cadet" wrote in message
oups.com...
A while ago, I was talking with a friend who is no space expert more of
layman when it comes to all things space related.

We where discussing the China's Shenzhou spacecraft and how they could
build a very small station from a series of orbital modules.
He said that wasn't a station it was a series of 'tin cans'.
He does not think of MIR or ISS as a station either just another series
of 'tin cans' strung together. The Salyut as just one off disposable
capsules. At first he considered Skylab to be a space station until I
told him that it was launched with all its supplies and could not be
easily resupplied. Then he refered to Skylab as just a 'big can'. I
thought about mentioning to him that MIR & ISS could be resupplied with
fuel from the progress and water from the shuttle, but when my friend
forms an opinion its sometimes hard to change it and I didn't realy
want to get into an argument with him over ISS of all things! ;^)
Someday I'll ask him for what his definition of space station is.
Where the Salyut stations refuelable/resuppliable?
Personally I consider Skylab/Salyut/MIR/ISS as space stations.
But I admit calling an Shenzhou orbital module(or two linked together)
a 'space station' is a bit of a stretch. It would be a very small/tiny
station of limited utility. Only good for gaining experience in
working & assembling them.

So my question is what is your definition of 'space station'?


Just my $0.02

Space Cadet

derwetzelsDASHspacecadetATyahooDOTcom


Moon Society - St. Louis Chapter

http://www.moonsociety.org/chapters/stlouis/

The Moon Society is a non-profit educational and
scientific foundation formed to further scientific
study and development of the moon.

Space Cadet wrote:
So my question is what is your definition of 'space station'?


A structure designed to stay in orbit on along term basis, which
provides life support and other living amenities and whose crew members
can be changed without the structure going back to earth. It must also
have some autonomy in terms of power, communications, propulsion and
orientation, and I would also add EVA capabilities.

It also implies docking ports for spacecraft that ferry crews and
supplies up/down.



The Shenzhou orbital modules may not fit the definition since they are
part of a spacecraft. However, if they are left in space and once enough
are assembled together, it may fit the above definition and be a space station.

In article ,
blart wrote:
A space station is a space habitat - capable of supporting a significant
population of humans in comfort indefinitely. Such humans should be able to
go about normal human activities, in a normal human way (no pooing into a
plastic bag for example) As such artificial gravity is a must...

No, just takes some cleverness. Skylab's airflow-based toilet worked
quite well, as did the Skylab shower.

Thought and ingenuity are required for living in free fall, but then,
that's often true of living in new environments on Earth too. The only
*big* question is whether humans can remain healthy indefinitely in free
fall -- preferably without onerous amounts of daily exercise.
--
spsystems.net is temporarily off the air; | Henry Spencer
mail to henry at zoo.utoronto.ca instead. |

Henry Spencer wrote:


No, just takes some cleverness. Skylab's airflow-based toilet worked
quite well, as did the Skylab shower.



Then there was the Shuttle toilet. The less said about that, the better.
What I'm trying to figure out is how you somehow hold a 10 cm cup shaped
thing on your rear in such a way as to get a tight seal. It does not
look like a reasonable design for its intended purpose.

Pat