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Let's Colonize the Universe
Folks complain about over-population, of too many people and not enough
jobs, resources, etc. Let's face it, people are not going to stop procreating, so the over-population problem is just going to contine to escalate. Historically, the solution governments used to control over population was to kill off vast numbers of peoples, usually by starting great wars where millions were culled off untill population levels reached manageable proportions. We need to devise methods and provide incentives to governments and peoples to stop the killing and colonize the Universe instead. The colonization of Mars would be a great place to start. Just imagine if all those hundreds of billions of dollars spend annually on wars and killings were instead used to send folks to Mars. Our governments would no longer need to be involved in the wholesale slaughter of human beings... and they could be focusing their creativity on much nobler purposes instead. |
#2
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Let's Colonize the Universe
Rudolph_X wrote:
Folks complain about over-population, of too many people and not enough jobs, resources, etc. Let's face it, people are not going to stop procreating, so the over-population problem is just going to contine to escalate. Historically, the solution governments used to control over population was to kill off vast numbers of peoples, usually by starting great wars where millions were culled off untill population levels reached manageable proportions. Rudy, Nope. Historically, when the population grew, ways were found to increase food production to meet the growing need. Sometimes great famines put off the need to increase food production; but in the long run, ways were found to produce more food. Wars have little if any affect on the rate of population growth. The two World Wars killed scores of millions of people; and the result was a population boom after the wars ended. We need to devise methods and provide incentives to governments and peoples to stop the killing and colonize the Universe instead. I don't disagree, but colonizing the solar system isn't going to soak up significant numbers of people. Assume that we can get the cost per person of getting to Mars down to, say, $1 million. Let's take a low estimate of the increase in population over the next 35 years at 2.5 billion. That would put the price of shipping them all off-world at $2.5 quadrillion for the lot. That's about $71 trillion per year. Not going to happen. The colonization of Mars would be a great place to start. Yes, but not to reduce surplus population. Just imagine if all those hundreds of billions of dollars spend annually on wars and killings were instead used to send folks to Mars. Our governments would no longer need to be involved in the wholesale slaughter of human beings... and they could be focusing their creativity on much nobler purposes instead. Well, since your predicate ('war=population control') is false, and you haven't run the numbers, this doesn't seem like a dog that will hunt. Tom McDonald |
#3
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Let's Colonize the Universe
Tom McDonald wrote: Not going to happen. Yes, I believe it can be done, and it can be done in an intelligent, innovative, and affordable way. |
#4
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Let's Colonize the Universe
Rudolph_X wrote:
Tom McDonald wrote: Not going to happen. Yes, I believe it can be done, and it can be done in an intelligent, innovative, and affordable way. Rudy, Please give details of how you think it would go. Tom McDonald |
#5
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Let's Colonize the Universe
Tom McDonald wrote: Rudolph_X wrote: Tom McDonald wrote: Not going to happen. Yes, I believe it can be done, and it can be done in an intelligent, innovative, and affordable way. Rudy, Please give details of how you think it would go. Tom McDonald It can be done simply by redirecting our resources and efforts away from inhumane and destructive activities, and by directing them toward more creative and humane goals. It is simply a matter of having more appropriate goals. However, the problem in the world today is also that our governments are not responsive to the goals and aspirations of the common people whom they are supposed to be representing. Our degenerate governments serve small minded myopic self interest groups instead, and serve their own greed and lust for sex and power, instead of doing what is good and right for mankind at large. The first item on my to do list would be to change the 'image of man' and bring it in line with the reality of mankind's unlimited potential. To be heroic we must believe in heroic ideals. Unfortunately, our 'leaders' are mostly spiritual degenerates of the lowest order. But, be assured efforts are under way to remedy the situation, by a higher authority. |
#6
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Let's Colonize the Universe
"Rudolph_X" wrote in message ... Folks complain about over-population, of too many people and not enough jobs, resources, etc. Let's face it, people are not going to stop procreating, so the over-population problem is just going to contine to escalate. Historically, the solution governments used to control over population was to kill off vast numbers of peoples, usually by starting great wars where millions were culled off untill population levels reached manageable proportions. We need to devise methods and provide incentives to governments and peoples to stop the killing and colonize the Universe instead. The colonization of Mars would be a great place to start. Assuming we could do that tomorrow and put as many people on Mars as there are on Earth, if the population is doubling every 50 years then all you have done is postpone the problem for 50 years, and then you have twice the number of people procreating and kids to cull. If we could do the same for another 6 planets in the Solar System, you can buy another 100 years after Mars (8 planets = 2^3 = 3*50 years). Then what? Another star system of 8 planets in the next 50 years, two more in the following 50 and so on? In the meantime the people left on each planet still have to solve the social problems of living in a finite-resource environment. All the colonisation of Mars would do is give us an excuse for not facing the real problem and leaving it for the next generation, something at which politicians are quite good enough already. In reality population growth is slowing and nobody knows why so the current concern is a population collapse. You need to update your doom scenario. George |
#7
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Let's Colonize the Universe
Very good answer George
jacob |
#8
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Let's Colonize the Universe
Rudolph_X wrote:
Folks complain about over-population, of too many people and not enough jobs, resources, etc. Let's face it, people are not going to stop procreating, so the over-population problem is just going to contine to escalate. Historically, the solution governments used to control over population was to kill off vast numbers of peoples, usually by starting great wars where millions were culled off untill population levels reached manageable proportions. We need to devise methods and provide incentives to governments and peoples to stop the killing and colonize the Universe instead. The colonization of Mars would be a great place to start. Just imagine if all those hundreds of billions of dollars spend annually on wars and killings were instead used to send folks to Mars. Our governments would no longer need to be involved in the wholesale slaughter of human beings... and they could be focusing their creativity on much nobler purposes instead. the current US president is going to do both: total, perpetual war -and- going to mars. money is no object, since "Reagan proved deficits don't matter" (according to Cheney). db |
#9
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Let's Colonize the Universe
George Dishman wrote: "Rudolph_X" wrote in message ... Folks complain about over-population, of too many people and not enough jobs, resources, etc. Let's face it, people are not going to stop procreating, so the over-population problem is just going to contine to escalate. Historically, the solution governments used to control over population was to kill off vast numbers of peoples, usually by starting great wars where millions were culled off untill population levels reached manageable proportions. We need to devise methods and provide incentives to governments and peoples to stop the killing and colonize the Universe instead. The colonization of Mars would be a great place to start. Assuming we could do that tomorrow and put as many people on Mars as there are on Earth, if the population is doubling every 50 years then all you have done is postpone the problem for 50 years, and then you have twice the number of people procreating and kids to cull. If we could do the same for another 6 planets in the Solar System, you can buy another 100 years after Mars (8 planets = 2^3 = 3*50 years). Then what? Another star system of 8 planets in the next 50 years, two more in the following 50 and so on? In the meantime the people left on each planet still have to solve the social problems of living in a finite-resource environment. All the colonisation of Mars would do is give us an excuse for not facing the real problem and leaving it for the next generation, something at which politicians are quite good enough already. In reality population growth is slowing and nobody knows why so the current concern is a population collapse. You need to update your doom scenario. George You have to take into account that new innovations will change the formula. Your calculations are based on the old faulty premise that no new innovations will arise to help alleviate the problem. Also, folks certainly know why population growths might temporarily be in decline. They delcine for the same reasons now as in the past: conditions are not right for the populations to grow. We have vast numbers of peoples who are unemployed, and even more who are under employed. We have entire generations of youth infested with rampant venerial diseases, spreading even now as we speak. We have record breaking numbers of the population incarcerated and engaging in unspeakable sexual perversions. We have all kinds of new diseases like AIDS and a whole host of other newer diseases decimating populations world wide. We have pesticides and pollution in the air and water, and gender altering hormones in our foods inhibiting natural reproduction. We are deluged with drugs of every kind imaginable insidiously altering our biological functions. And of course, we have wars, and the crime rates, murders, etc., is always rising higer and higher. And, the list goes on and on... yet despite all this, the population continues to grow, with an occasional dip in growth rates. Nevertheless, mankind will continue to grow and will colonize the Universe, or die trying. Where else is there to go? What else is there to do? |
#10
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Let's Colonize the Universe
"Rudolph_X" wrote in message ... George Dishman wrote: "Rudolph_X" wrote in message ... Folks complain about over-population, of too many people and not enough jobs, resources, etc. Let's face it, people are not going to stop procreating, so the over-population problem is just going to contine to escalate. Historically, the solution governments used to control over population was to kill off vast numbers of peoples, usually by starting great wars where millions were culled off untill population levels reached manageable proportions. We need to devise methods and provide incentives to governments and peoples to stop the killing and colonize the Universe instead. The colonization of Mars would be a great place to start. Assuming we could do that tomorrow and put as many people on Mars as there are on Earth, if the population is doubling every 50 years then all you have done is postpone the problem for 50 years, and then you have twice the number of people procreating and kids to cull. If we could do the same for another 6 planets in the Solar System, you can buy another 100 years after Mars (8 planets = 2^3 = 3*50 years). Then what? Another star system of 8 planets in the next 50 years, two more in the following 50 and so on? In the meantime the people left on each planet still have to solve the social problems of living in a finite-resource environment. All the colonisation of Mars would do is give us an excuse for not facing the real problem and leaving it for the next generation, something at which politicians are quite good enough already. In reality population growth is slowing and nobody knows why so the current concern is a population collapse. You need to update your doom scenario. You have to take into account that new innovations will change the formula. Your calculations are based on the old faulty premise that no new innovations will arise to help alleviate the problem. No, they merely demonstrate that colonisation of other planets could never be a solution to overpopulation. If it does turn into a problem then we must find other approaches, "new innovations" as you call them, to solve it. Also, folks certainly know why population growths might temporarily be in decline. There is evidence of a significant and progressive decrease in male fertility worldwide lasting for many decades and nobody knows why. Other factors are known, for example: They delcine for the same reasons now as in the past: conditions are not right for the populations to grow. We have vast numbers of peoples who are unemployed, and even more who are under employed. We have entire generations of youth infested with rampant venerial diseases, spreading even now as we speak. We have record breaking numbers of the population incarcerated and engaging in unspeakable sexual perversions. We have all kinds of new diseases like AIDS and a whole host of other newer diseases decimating populations world wide. When I last saw a documentary on this a few years ago, the lowest birth rate was in Italy, and it was primarily because young 'professional' couples were choosing to have only one or even no children in order not to disrupt their careers. The problem was worst with top salary female managers. You really should find out about your subject before airing your prejudices. We have pesticides and pollution in the air and water, and gender altering hormones in our foods inhibiting natural reproduction. We are deluged with drugs of every kind imaginable insidiously altering our biological functions. That is where the search for a cause of the fertility problems was focussing, last I heard. And of course, we have wars, and the crime rates, murders, etc., is always rising higer and higher. And, the list goes on and on... yet despite all this, the population continues to grow, with an occasional dip in growth rates. It is not an "occasional dip" the evidence was for a steady decline in the rate over some 40 to 50 years which was still continuing and unless checked would result in a population that would start to shrink around the middle of this century. As I say though, this was a few years ago so I may be out of date. Nevertheless, mankind will continue to grow and will colonize the Universe, or die trying. Where else is there to go? What else is there to do? Humans have lived on a single planet for their entire history and it hasn't been a problem, and the vast majority of the population will be quite happy to go on doing that. I am sure we will eventually send out probes and explore beyond our system, but in the meantime we still have to alter our social, economic and political structures to come to terms with the fact that we live on a finite surface. George |
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