Post Sputnik, Post Apollo, Post Shuttle ...

From : SP-4221 The Space Shuttle Decision

http://history.nasa.gov/SP-4221/contents.htm

"During 1972, the Shuttle entered a new phase, as a mainstream aerospace
program. The debates and arguments were finished. NASA now held its
future in its own hands, with responsibility for executing what it had
planned and delivering what it had promised."

-----

Er ... right. That VSE thing.

My post shuttle era includes a big ass launcher, I don't give a damn
about the moon. We'll be lucky if all we get out of this NASA debacle is
a 10 meter tank with five RS-68s and 2 SRBs, which I should then be able
to convert to an all SSME SSTO demonstration flight, when the complete
house of cards we have built for ourselves folds and falls, around 2010.

We don't even have a credible propulsion program besides the IPD, and
Rocketdyne has been folded into Pratt and Whitney, it's just insane.

Four words : propulsion, propulsion. propulsion and then propulsion.

For a credible post shuttle era, we need a credible post shuttle engine.

Werner von Braun must be laughing at US, with the sensational spectrum
of high power engines available to US, and we still can't figure it out.

Let's see, we've got SSMEs, RS-68s, RL-10s, a promise of RL-60s, and
then a bunch of Russian RD-0170s/0180s and RD-0120s etc ...

I've figured my thing out, NASA has figured their thing out apparently,
what else has anyone got to offer US here? I haven't seen anything.

WTF. Not even a sea dragon type deal :-)

A gigantic rocket powered flying wing that can air drop a fully fueled
two stage to orbit cryogenic rocket at 50,000 feet, and then glide back?

From the way things look from here, the post shuttle era is the ELV era.

I would prefer that the post shuttle era be the SSTO, RLV and CELSS era.

http://cosmic.lifeform.org

"Thomas Lee Elifritz" a écrit dans le message de news:
...

Let's see, we've got SSMEs, RS-68s, RL-10s, a promise of RL-60s, and then
a bunch of Russian RD-0170s/0180s and RD-0120s etc ...



As long as you go buying foreign engines, I'm sure the Vulcain II is also
available on the market.

frédéric haessig wrote:

Let's see, we've got SSMEs, RS-68s, RL-10s, a promise of RL-60s, and then
a bunch of Russian RD-0170s/0180s and RD-0120s etc ...

As long as you go buying foreign engines, I'm sure the Vulcain II is also
available on the market.

Sorry, I need to give credit where credit is due.

Werner von Braun and Krafft Ehricke both would have thought they had
died and gone to heaven with an engine like that to play around with.

Hey, they did die and go to heaven!

Speaking of which, if the post Shuttle era is indeed the SRB/ELV era,
then the NASA CaLV or whatever is the perfect expendable launch vehicle.

The Super Ariane V on Steriods!

http://cosmic.lifeform.org

"Thomas Lee Elifritz" a écrit dans le message de news:
...
Speaking of which, if the post Shuttle era is indeed the SRB/ELV era,
then the NASA CaLV or whatever is the perfect expendable launch vehicle.

The Super Ariane V on Steriods!


Well, I did visit Snecma Museum a few years ago and they had a model of a
european lunar rocket study they had done. That was a 3 stage rocket; The
first stage had 5 Vulcain engines and the second stage had one ( i.e. the
second stage was as powerful as todays Ariane V first engine ) - I can't
remember what they had for third stage -. This was snecma wet dream, as they
could sell 6 engines per launch instead of just one. Interesting, no?

Has anyone forgot that "The Energia" could be used! With a full set of
LRB's, (Strapped all around)! Wow that would be one hell of a candle to
ride!


Carl

wrote:

Has anyone forgot that "The Energia" could be used! With a full set of
LRB's, (Strapped all around)! Wow that would be one hell of a candle to
ride!

Yes, Sergei Korolev must be laughing himself silly.

All those lovely engines, but dumb****s rule.

http://cosmic.lifeform.org

"Thomas Lee Elifritz" wrote in message
news
From : SP-4221 The Space Shuttle Decision

http://history.nasa.gov/SP-4221/contents.htm

"During 1972, the Shuttle entered a new phase, as a mainstream aerospace
program. The debates and arguments were finished. NASA now held its
future in its own hands, with responsibility for executing what it had
planned and delivering what it had promised."

-----

Er ... right. That VSE thing.

My post shuttle era includes a big ass launcher, I don't give a damn
about the moon. We'll be lucky if all we get out of this NASA debacle is
a 10 meter tank with five RS-68s and 2 SRBs,


I think the plan is to spend enough fast enough on the stick and calv
so it doesn't make sense for the next administration to cancel them.
I also seriously doubt we'll go on to the Moon unless the
republicans keep the White House. Even then with the massive
deficits it may never happen.


which I should then be able
to convert to an all SSME SSTO demonstration flight,


Doesn't that cost like hundreds of millions of dollars?
Do you own an airline or something we don't know about?



s



when the complete
house of cards we have built for ourselves folds and falls, around 2010.

We don't even have a credible propulsion program besides the IPD, and
Rocketdyne has been folded into Pratt and Whitney, it's just insane.

Four words : propulsion, propulsion. propulsion and then propulsion.

For a credible post shuttle era, we need a credible post shuttle engine.

Werner von Braun must be laughing at US, with the sensational spectrum
of high power engines available to US, and we still can't figure it out.

Let's see, we've got SSMEs, RS-68s, RL-10s, a promise of RL-60s, and
then a bunch of Russian RD-0170s/0180s and RD-0120s etc ...

I've figured my thing out, NASA has figured their thing out apparently,
what else has anyone got to offer US here? I haven't seen anything.

WTF. Not even a sea dragon type deal :-)

A gigantic rocket powered flying wing that can air drop a fully fueled
two stage to orbit cryogenic rocket at 50,000 feet, and then glide back?

From the way things look from here, the post shuttle era is the ELV era.

I would prefer that the post shuttle era be the SSTO, RLV and CELSS era.

http://cosmic.lifeform.org

jonathan wrote:

"Thomas Lee Elifritz" wrote in message

From : SP-4221 The Space Shuttle Decision

http://history.nasa.gov/SP-4221/contents.htm

"During 1972, the Shuttle entered a new phase, as a mainstream aerospace
program. The debates and arguments were finished. NASA now held its
future in its own hands, with responsibility for executing what it had
planned and delivering what it had promised."

-----

Er ... right. That VSE thing.

My post shuttle era includes a big ass launcher, I don't give a damn
about the moon. We'll be lucky if all we get out of this NASA debacle is
a 10 meter tank with five RS-68s and 2 SRBs,


I think the plan is to spend enough fast enough on the stick and calv
so it doesn't make sense for the next administration to cancel them.

I don't need the Shaft, I plan on using the Delta IV Medium.

I also seriously doubt we'll go on to the Moon unless the
republicans keep the White House. Even then with the massive
deficits it may never happen.

That's ok with me, I only want the heavy lift launcher.

which I should then be able
to convert to an all SSME SSTO demonstration flight,

Doesn't that cost like hundreds of millions of dollars?

At the very least, more probably billions.

Do you own an airline or something we don't know about?

No, er ... I did stay at a luxury resort in the Bahamas last night,
though, where I entertained movie stars and billionaires. If the movie
studios don't pick up on it sometime in that timeframe, the billionaires
eventually will. I'm also thinking about hard this 'Rocket Center' idea.

Think about it, if I have a reservoir of post shuttle SSMEs, and the
tank factory in Michoud should be able to produce roughly 12 ten meter
tanks per year, plus I have these big ass SRBs which totally take away
any weight constraints in the engine module return to the launch site
development process, that almost trivializes RLV development. I just
want to plop the entire engine module down in the shallow water there.
Once I have an operational system that works, then I can trim the weight
down to the point where the solid rocket boosters can be eliminated.

Ideally, any heavy lift launch operation would launch once a month.

I'm talking about two launches, one to demonstrate SSTO, another RLV.

Once I have RLV capability, I'm in business. I've got a great plan.

I want to totally commit pads 39 A and B to heavy lift launch, and Pad
37 A and B to manned LEO support missions, until I have flying wings,
which are capable of launching orbital spaceplanes, or whatever.


when the complete
house of cards we have built for ourselves folds and falls, around 2010.

We don't even have a credible propulsion program besides the IPD, and
Rocketdyne has been folded into Pratt and Whitney, it's just insane.

Four words : propulsion, propulsion. propulsion and then propulsion.

For a credible post shuttle era, we need a credible post shuttle engine.

Werner von Braun must be laughing at US, with the sensational spectrum
of high power engines available to US, and we still can't figure it out.

Let's see, we've got SSMEs, RS-68s, RL-10s, a promise of RL-60s, and
then a bunch of Russian RD-0170s/0180s and RD-0120s etc ...

I've figured my thing out, NASA has figured their thing out apparently,
what else has anyone got to offer US here? I haven't seen anything.

WTF. Not even a sea dragon type deal :-)

A gigantic rocket powered flying wing that can air drop a fully fueled
two stage to orbit cryogenic rocket at 50,000 feet, and then glide back?

From the way things look from here, the post shuttle era is the ELV era.

I would prefer that the post shuttle era be the SSTO, RLV and CELSS era.

http://cosmic.lifeform.org

Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote:
....
Four words : propulsion, propulsion. propulsion and then propulsion.
...
Let's see, we've got SSMEs, RS-68s, RL-10s, a promise of RL-60s, and
then a bunch of Russian RD-0170s/0180s and RD-0120s etc ...


Don't forget Mk-21, 95% fusion.

"Bombardier Planetary" a écrit dans le
message de news: ...
Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote:
...
Four words : propulsion, propulsion. propulsion and then propulsion.
...
Let's see, we've got SSMEs, RS-68s, RL-10s, a promise of RL-60s, and
then a bunch of Russian RD-0170s/0180s and RD-0120s etc ...


Don't forget Mk-21, 95% fusion.


One word : NERVA