Before the Big Bang?

Hi:

What happened before the big bang?

Sadly, its a question that can't be answered, yet its so interesting.



Regards,

Radium

On 10 Sep 2006 09:35:09 -0700, "Radium" wrote:

Hi:

What happened before the big bang?

Sadly, its a question that can't be answered, yet its so interesting.

Something like this question may be answerable. Time is a property of
our universe, and it began when the universe began, so the concept of
"before" isn't easily defined. However, if theory and experiment
ultimately support the existence of one or more hyperuniverses, then the
_cause_ of the Big Bang in that larger context could be understood, even
if "before" isn't exactly the right way of putting it.

_________________________________________________

Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com

Chris L Peterson wrote:

On 10 Sep 2006 09:35:09 -0700, "Radium" wrote:

Hi:

What happened before the big bang?

Sadly, its a question that can't be answered, yet its so interesting.

Something like this question may be answerable. Time is a property of
our universe, and it began when the universe began, so the concept of
"before" isn't easily defined. However, if theory and experiment
ultimately support the existence of one or more hyperuniverses, then the
_cause_ of the Big Bang in that larger context could be understood, even
if "before" isn't exactly the right way of putting it.


Doesn't one invoke the weak anthropic principle round about here?


Eugene L Griessel

Artificial Intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity.

Chris L Peterson wrote:

Something like this question may be answerable.

I hope so!

Time is a property of
our universe, and it began when the universe began, so the concept of
"before" isn't easily defined.

Hmmmm. My reading and listening tell me that it is not known if time
began at the BB, or if time existed prior to the BB and the BB was an
event that occurred at a certain point in time. Tough question, but
perhaps answerable one day.

Davoud

--
usenet *at* davidillig *dawt* com

Davoud wrote:
Chris L Peterson wrote:

Something like this question may be answerable.

I hope so!

Time is a property of
our universe, and it began when the universe began, so the concept of
"before" isn't easily defined.


Hmmmm. My reading and listening tell me that it is not known if time
began at the BB, or if time existed prior to the BB and the BB was an
event that occurred at a certain point in time. Tough question, but
perhaps answerable one day.

For some reason [that I can't figure out myself], I believe that time
did exist before the BB and that BB was as you say "an event that
occurred at a certain point in time".

AFAIK, the BB was the most major event known to science, however it
does not mean that BB was the start of time.

It just so happens that we [scientists] haven't discovered anything
prior to the big bang.


Davoud

--
usenet *at* davidillig *dawt* com

On 10 Sep 2006 15:29:51 -0700, "Radium" wrote:

AFAIK, the BB was the most major event known to science, however it
does not mean that BB was the start of time.

It just so happens that we [scientists] haven't discovered anything
prior to the big bang.

That's not true. Everything we know about physics breaks down very close
to the BB, including time. Time is generally seen as a component of our
universe just as the spatial dimensions are. It really makes no sense to
consider time as something which existed "before" the BB, anymore than
it makes sense to consider space as having existed. As sentient
inhabitants of _this_ universe, our intuition is shaped by its laws, and
we have a hard time separating causality and time. But there is no
reason there has to be a "before" the BB in any sense that we can grasp
non-mathematically.

_________________________________________________

Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com

Chris L Peterson wrote:
On 10 Sep 2006 15:29:51 -0700, "Radium" wrote:

AFAIK, the BB was the most major event known to science, however it
does not mean that BB was the start of time.

It just so happens that we [scientists] haven't discovered anything
prior to the big bang.

That's not true.

No, he's right, nothing prior to the BB has been discovered as yet,
unless you know about something that has been discovered as such.

Everything we know about physics breaks down very close
to the BB, including time.

Okay, but that is after, not before.

Time is generally seen as a component of our
universe just as the spatial dimensions are.

Yes, you're right.

It really makes no sense to
consider time as something which existed "before" the BB, anymore than
it makes sense to consider space as having existed.

On the contrary, since space exists in our universe, so it really
makes more sense to think it can exist outside of our universe.

It makes more sense to ask whether matter exists elsewhere
and if ever we can assume that it does, we can assume time
would exist as well.

Radium wrote:
Davoud wrote:
Chris L Peterson wrote:

Something like this question may be answerable.

I hope so!

Time is a property of
our universe, and it began when the universe began, so the concept of
"before" isn't easily defined.


Hmmmm. My reading and listening tell me that it is not known if time
began at the BB, or if time existed prior to the BB and the BB was an
event that occurred at a certain point in time. Tough question, but
perhaps answerable one day.

For some reason [that I can't figure out myself], I believe that time
did exist before the BB and that BB was as you say "an event that
occurred at a certain point in time".

The reason is intuitive, as opposed to the counterintuitive claim that
time began with our universe. Trust your common sense, and read
my posts to Chris and Davoud.

AFAIK, the BB was the most major event known to science, however it
does not mean that BB was the start of time.

It just so happens that we [scientists] haven't discovered anything
prior to the big bang.

I agree. An explosion evolves, requiring the passage of time.

tomgee wrote:
Radium wrote:
Davoud wrote:
Chris L Peterson wrote:

Something like this question may be answerable.

I hope so!

Time is a property of
our universe, and it began when the universe began, so the concept of
"before" isn't easily defined.


Hmmmm. My reading and listening tell me that it is not known if time
began at the BB, or if time existed prior to the BB and the BB was an
event that occurred at a certain point in time. Tough question, but
perhaps answerable one day.

For some reason [that I can't figure out myself], I believe that time
did exist before the BB and that BB was as you say "an event that
occurred at a certain point in time".

The reason is intuitive, as opposed to the counterintuitive claim that
time began with our universe. Trust your common sense, and read
my posts to Chris and Davoud.

Much of what physics has discovered about the nature of our universe is
counterintuitive, including relativity, which obviously is correct or
atomic weapons, nuclear reactors, and star wouldn't work. The same is
true for quantum mechanics.

Prof. Michio Kaku's book "Parallel Worlds" is a fairly decent/readable
explanation for non-physicists of the history of physics and cosmology,
including why multiverses can, and probably do, exist. The book was
copyrighted in 2005, and changes to our knowledge of cosmology have
happened since that book was written.

--
Pat O'Connell
[note munged EMail address]
Take nothing but pictures, Leave nothing but footprints,
Kill nothing but vandals...

tomgee wrote:

The reason is intuitive, as opposed to the counterintuitive claim that
time began with our universe. Trust your common sense, and read
my posts to Chris and Davoud.

Tom, most of the world gave up intuitive science around 1880.
Get with the program.


Shawn