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The planet Mercury is about to make its best apparition of the year



 
 
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  #11  
Old February 11th 13, 11:29 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
oriel36[_2_]
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Posts: 8,478
Default The planet Mercury is about to make its best apparition of the year

I am delighted to help empiricists along in understanding the mess
they created but moreso that it is reflected off the actual
understanding of retrogrades,with little or no fuss using contemporary
imaging,they can have a first look at Newton's absolute/relative
time,space and motion as he intended and why it is idiosyncratic and
plain wrong.

Retrograde motion,and especially those of the outer planets, are a
consequence of a moving Earth periodically overtaking the slower
moving outer planets so what we observe are the combined motions of
the Earth and the other planet,in this case Mars -

http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap120809.html

Kepler rendered these planetary motions against the stellar background
in a graphical form over a period of 18 year just as readers can now
imprint the observation as sequential imaging -

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...retrograde.jpg

"Copernicus, by attributing a single annual motion to the earth,
entirely rids the planets of these extremely intricate coils, leading
the individual planets into their respective orbits, quite bare and
very nearly circular. In the period of time shown in the diagram, Mars
traverses one and the same orbit as many times as the 'garlands' you
see looped towards the
centre, with one extra, making nine times, while at the same time the
Earth repeats its circle sixteen times " Astronomia Nova 1609

Isaac comes along with other ideas,he assumes if you drop the Sun into
the center of the diagram this suffices to explain away retrograde
motion -

"For to the earth planetary motions appear sometimes direct, sometimes
stationary, nay, and sometimes retrograde. But from the sun they are
always seen direct.." Newton

Then you get into absolute/relative time,space and motion and the
framework built around Ra/Dec but ultimately it remains contrived and
why nobody today expresses the motion of Mercury in true dynamical
terms as it swerves around the Sun.There is nothing here that can't be
reasoned through with a little familiarity and it has been this way
for quite some time,the idea is actually to promote which is right
from what is not and the grace to understand the difference.
  #12  
Old February 11th 13, 01:21 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Martin Nicholson
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Posts: 235
Default 20th attempt to get Oriel to answer a simple astronomical question

Notice how carefully Oriel, over a period of some years, has avoided
explaining exactly where his views and the views of other members of
this group differ. He writes whole paragraphs - sometimes nultiple
paragraphs - hundreds of times a year but refuses to explain something
as basic as this.

He also refuses to answer any questions designed to identify what the
difference might be.


As an example - Oriel, if you look due south at midnight on July 1st
and again at midnight on January 1st of the next year will you see the
same stars in the same places.


Yes or no?
  #13  
Old February 11th 13, 01:59 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
oriel36[_2_]
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Posts: 8,478
Default 20th attempt to get Oriel to answer a simple astronomical question

On Feb 11, 1:21*pm, Martin Nicholson
wrote:
Notice how carefully Oriel, over a period of some years, has avoided
explaining exactly where his views and the views of other members of
this group differ. He writes whole paragraphs - sometimes nultiple
paragraphs - hundreds of times a year but refuses to explain something
as basic as this.

He also refuses to answer any questions designed to identify what the
difference might be.

As an example - Oriel, if you look due south at midnight on July 1st
and again at midnight on January 1st of the next year will you see the
same stars in the same places.

Yes or no?


You only get one shot at the title son and the fact that you included
'et al' ( everyone else) in a game that was impossible to lose,and
you lost,makes this merely an indictment on others -

https://groups.google.com/group/sci....474760fa?hl=en

For everyone else,to lose the attachment between the 24 hour AM/PM
system and the Lat/Long system is not just inexcusable,the community
loses the mandate to discuss cause and effect where dynamics and
terrestrial effects mesh.I cannot even imagine what it must take to
act out of cowardice because the alternative is the dreariness of the
unfortunate guy here and if people are looking to him for support then
God help you all.
  #14  
Old February 11th 13, 04:53 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Martin Nicholson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 235
Default 21st attempt to get Oriel to answer a simple astronomical question

Notice how carefully Oriel, over a period of some years, has avoided
explaining exactly where his views and the views of other members of
this group differ. He writes whole paragraphs - sometimes nultiple
paragraphs - hundreds of times a year but refuses to explain something
as basic as this.

He also refuses to answer any questions designed to identify what the
difference might be.


As an example - Oriel, if you look due south at midnight on July 1st
and again at midnight on January 1st of the next year will you see the
same stars in the same places.


Yes or no?


  #15  
Old February 11th 13, 10:33 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
palsing[_2_]
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Posts: 3,068
Default The planet Mercury is about to make its best apparition of the year

On Monday, February 11, 2013 2:29:02 AM UTC-8, oriel36 wrote:

Retrograde motion,and especially those of the outer planets, are a

consequence of a moving Earth periodically overtaking the slower

moving outer planets so what we observe are the combined motions of

the Earth and the other planet...


Exactly correct, a consequence of a moving Earth overtaking slower outer planets. I you were to stand on Mars, you would also see Jupiter and the other outer planets again in retrograde now and then, and if you were to theoretically stand on Jupiter, so would you see Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, etc, occasionally in retrograde, too.

If you were standing on a moving Venus or Mercury, you could then see Earth in retrograde, along with all the other planets. Everyone understand this just fine.

However, were you to hypothetically stand on the non-moving Sun, there would be no 'periodically overtaking' of the planets, and no retrograde motion at all would ever be detected, and that is all Newton was saying. What part of 'non-moving' don't you understand?
  #16  
Old February 12th 13, 03:58 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
oriel36[_2_]
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Posts: 8,478
Default The planet Mercury is about to make its best apparition of the year

On Feb 11, 10:33*pm, palsing wrote:
On Monday, February 11, 2013 2:29:02 AM UTC-8, oriel36 wrote:
Retrograde motion,and especially those of the outer planets, are a


consequence of a moving Earth periodically overtaking the slower


moving outer planets so what we observe are the combined motions of


the Earth and the other planet...


Exactly correct, a consequence of a moving Earth overtaking slower outer planets. I you were to stand on Mars, you would also see Jupiter and the other outer planets again in retrograde now and then, and if you were to theoretically stand on Jupiter, so would you see Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, etc, occasionally in retrograde, too.

If you were standing on a moving Venus or Mercury, you could then see Earth in retrograde, along with all the other planets. Everyone understand this just fine.

However, were you to hypothetically stand on the non-moving Sun, there would be no 'periodically overtaking' of the planets, and no retrograde motion at all would ever be detected, and that is all Newton was saying. What part of 'non-moving' don't you understand?


The distinction between the inner and outer planets in terms of the
illusion of retrogrades can only be maintained within the perspective
that retrogrades are non existent and are not intrinsic to the motion
of the planet itself,they simply exist as a consequence of a moving
Earth and the motion of the other planets around the Sun.The images of
a faster moving Venus swerving around the Sun can be set off against
retrogrades of the outer planets where the faster motion of the Earth
dominates -

http://www.masil-astro-imaging.com/S...age%20flat.jpg

http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap011220.html

As for the repulsive conclusion of Newton,that went into creating his
absolute/relative time ,space and motion by distorting the actual
resolution to create what is an assault on the mind and the eyes -

"That the fixed stars being at rest, the periodic times of the five
primary planets, and (whether of the sun about the earth, or) of the
earth about the sun, are in the sesquiplicate proportion of their mean
distances from the sun." Newton

Even when shown how Kepler created a representation of the motion of
Mars against a moving Earth thereby extracting the orbital periods of
each planet,it has as much effect on readers as the easily understood
link between the 24 hour AM/PM system and Lat/Long system which allows
days /years to transfer directly to rotations/annual circuits.A human
being or a group of people who have lost the most basic
correspondence between days and rotations of the planet have no
intellectual platform,no mandate,nothing but unending mediocrity and
tragedy.



 




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