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Fermi Paradox



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 7th 04, 04:02 PM
Andrew Nowicki
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Default Fermi Paradox

My favorite explanation of the Fermi Paradox is that intelligent life
is an oxymoron. Life and its procreation are driven by primitive
instincts. There is nothing outside these instincts that makes life
worth living because the concepts of worth and value are defined by
these instincts. If the extraterrestrial civilizations had known any
universal ideas that gave some things a universal value independent
of their instincts, they would have proselytized these ideas and
would have colonized the outer space to implement these ideas. If
living things or manufactured objects had been valued more than raw
materials, the entire universe would have been transformed into the
living things or into the manufactured objects.

Details: http://www.islandone.org/LEOBiblio/SPBI1GH.HTM#fermi
  #2  
Old March 7th 04, 10:38 PM
Andrew Nowicki
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Posts: n/a
Default Fermi Paradox

A new book about extraterrestrial life:

Lonely Planets: The Natural Philosophy of Alien Life,
Author: David Grinspoon

Reviews:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...140055-4600629
  #3  
Old March 7th 04, 10:38 PM
Andrew Nowicki
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fermi Paradox

A new book about extraterrestrial life:

Lonely Planets: The Natural Philosophy of Alien Life,
Author: David Grinspoon

Reviews:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...140055-4600629
  #4  
Old March 8th 04, 05:30 AM
Jason H.
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Default Fermi Paradox

Andrew Nowicki wrote in message ...
A new book about extraterrestrial life:

Lonely Planets: The Natural Philosophy of Alien Life,
Author: David Grinspoon

Reviews:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...140055-4600629



Coincidentally, I just heard David Grinspoon on the Are We Alone radio
show tonight (you can catch it later this week on Saturdays
rebroadcast or when they put the MP3 file of the show on the seti.org
website.) He did mention his new book, and I liked many of his
perspectives on SETI (in the show that is, I haven't read the book.)
Like me, he is an advocate for looking for ETI-made artifacts within
the solar system. I think even Brad G. :^) of Venus fame would have
liked what he said (and David works for NASA, no?) because David
thinks the room temperature clouds high in Venus atmosphere could
support sulfur loving airborne microorganisms, and also because Venus
shows evidence of recent geologic activity. He also mentioned an
interest in trying to think out-of-the-box by not looking exclusively
from an Earth-centric biology point-of-view; for example he thinks
Jupiter's moon IO is a possible candidate because of the geological
activity, even with the harsh radiation hazards, he thinks there could
be life down inside IO. I missed the first half of the show, so
perhaps he covered some other interesting ground.

Jason H.
  #5  
Old March 8th 04, 05:30 AM
Jason H.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fermi Paradox

Andrew Nowicki wrote in message ...
A new book about extraterrestrial life:

Lonely Planets: The Natural Philosophy of Alien Life,
Author: David Grinspoon

Reviews:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...140055-4600629



Coincidentally, I just heard David Grinspoon on the Are We Alone radio
show tonight (you can catch it later this week on Saturdays
rebroadcast or when they put the MP3 file of the show on the seti.org
website.) He did mention his new book, and I liked many of his
perspectives on SETI (in the show that is, I haven't read the book.)
Like me, he is an advocate for looking for ETI-made artifacts within
the solar system. I think even Brad G. :^) of Venus fame would have
liked what he said (and David works for NASA, no?) because David
thinks the room temperature clouds high in Venus atmosphere could
support sulfur loving airborne microorganisms, and also because Venus
shows evidence of recent geologic activity. He also mentioned an
interest in trying to think out-of-the-box by not looking exclusively
from an Earth-centric biology point-of-view; for example he thinks
Jupiter's moon IO is a possible candidate because of the geological
activity, even with the harsh radiation hazards, he thinks there could
be life down inside IO. I missed the first half of the show, so
perhaps he covered some other interesting ground.

Jason H.
  #6  
Old March 8th 04, 03:08 PM
Anthony Cerrato
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Posts: n/a
Default Fermi Paradox


"Andrew Nowicki" wrote in message
...
A new book about extraterrestrial life:

Lonely Planets: The Natural Philosophy of Alien Life,
Author: David Grinspoon

Reviews:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...140055-4600629

Thanks for the reference.! Boy, the Amazon reviews of this
book are remarkablely positive-except for the one negative
review by what seems to be a UFO advocate. Must try to
find time to look into it. ...tonyC


  #7  
Old March 8th 04, 03:08 PM
Anthony Cerrato
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fermi Paradox


"Andrew Nowicki" wrote in message
...
A new book about extraterrestrial life:

Lonely Planets: The Natural Philosophy of Alien Life,
Author: David Grinspoon

Reviews:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...140055-4600629

Thanks for the reference.! Boy, the Amazon reviews of this
book are remarkablely positive-except for the one negative
review by what seems to be a UFO advocate. Must try to
find time to look into it. ...tonyC


  #8  
Old March 8th 04, 03:57 PM
Anthony Cerrato
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fermi Paradox


"Jason H." wrote in message
om...
Andrew Nowicki wrote in message

...
A new book about extraterrestrial life:

Lonely Planets: The Natural Philosophy of Alien Life,
Author: David Grinspoon

Reviews:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...140055-4600629


Coincidentally, I just heard David Grinspoon on the Are We

Alone radio
show tonight (you can catch it later this week on

Saturdays
rebroadcast or when they put the MP3 file of the show on

the seti.org
website.) He did mention his new book, and I liked many

of his
perspectives on SETI (in the show that is, I haven't read

the book.)
Like me, he is an advocate for looking for ETI-made

artifacts within
the solar system. I think even Brad G. :^) of Venus fame

would have
liked what he said (and David works for NASA, no?) because

David
thinks the room temperature clouds high in Venus

atmosphere could
support sulfur loving airborne microorganisms, and also

because Venus
shows evidence of recent geologic activity. He also

mentioned an
interest in trying to think out-of-the-box by not looking

exclusively
from an Earth-centric biology point-of-view; for example

he thinks
Jupiter's moon IO is a possible candidate because of the

geological
activity, even with the harsh radiation hazards, he thinks

there could
be life down inside IO. I missed the first half of the

show, so
perhaps he covered some other interesting ground.

Jason H.


Yes, I like this kind of thinking too! I would agree about
Io too--there's a lot of chemistry going on there,
particularly if one thinks in terms of life
"not-as-we-know-it." And, I must admit, no matter how
extreme the environment of Venus is, it still never ceases
to fascinate as regards life (as any clouded mystery would
and should.) Also, even if we could never relate to it, even
in theory,
it's also intriguing to contemplate the possibility of other
forms of life "beyond our space-time scale," particularly
any which might use uncommon forms of energy to earn a
living (e.g., nuclear force, gravitation, magnetism.) Thanx,
for the audio ref. --this is one I really would like to
hear. Regards, ...tonyC


  #9  
Old March 8th 04, 03:57 PM
Anthony Cerrato
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fermi Paradox


"Jason H." wrote in message
om...
Andrew Nowicki wrote in message

...
A new book about extraterrestrial life:

Lonely Planets: The Natural Philosophy of Alien Life,
Author: David Grinspoon

Reviews:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...140055-4600629


Coincidentally, I just heard David Grinspoon on the Are We

Alone radio
show tonight (you can catch it later this week on

Saturdays
rebroadcast or when they put the MP3 file of the show on

the seti.org
website.) He did mention his new book, and I liked many

of his
perspectives on SETI (in the show that is, I haven't read

the book.)
Like me, he is an advocate for looking for ETI-made

artifacts within
the solar system. I think even Brad G. :^) of Venus fame

would have
liked what he said (and David works for NASA, no?) because

David
thinks the room temperature clouds high in Venus

atmosphere could
support sulfur loving airborne microorganisms, and also

because Venus
shows evidence of recent geologic activity. He also

mentioned an
interest in trying to think out-of-the-box by not looking

exclusively
from an Earth-centric biology point-of-view; for example

he thinks
Jupiter's moon IO is a possible candidate because of the

geological
activity, even with the harsh radiation hazards, he thinks

there could
be life down inside IO. I missed the first half of the

show, so
perhaps he covered some other interesting ground.

Jason H.


Yes, I like this kind of thinking too! I would agree about
Io too--there's a lot of chemistry going on there,
particularly if one thinks in terms of life
"not-as-we-know-it." And, I must admit, no matter how
extreme the environment of Venus is, it still never ceases
to fascinate as regards life (as any clouded mystery would
and should.) Also, even if we could never relate to it, even
in theory,
it's also intriguing to contemplate the possibility of other
forms of life "beyond our space-time scale," particularly
any which might use uncommon forms of energy to earn a
living (e.g., nuclear force, gravitation, magnetism.) Thanx,
for the audio ref. --this is one I really would like to
hear. Regards, ...tonyC


  #10  
Old April 3rd 04, 07:13 AM
Meteorite Debris
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Fermi Paradox

On Sun, 07 Mar 2004 16:02:33 +0100 the ET form known as Andrew
sent a radio signal across the vast expanse
of deep space -._.--._.--._.--._.--._.--._.

My favorite explanation of the Fermi Paradox is that intelligent life
is an oxymoron. Life and its procreation are driven by primitive
instincts. There is nothing outside these instincts that makes life
worth living because the concepts of worth and value are defined by
these instincts. If the extraterrestrial civilizations had known any
universal ideas that gave some things a universal value independent
of their instincts, they would have proselytized these ideas and
would have colonized the outer space to implement these ideas. If
living things or manufactured objects had been valued more than raw
materials, the entire universe would have been transformed into the
living things or into the manufactured objects.

Details: http://www.islandone.org/LEOBiblio/SPBI1GH.HTM#fermi


My take on the Fermi paradox is a bit different. I assume that a
civilisation can become both a space coloniser and extinct.
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~pk1956/misc/fermi.htm

--
epicurus1*at*optusnet*dot*com*dot*au
apatriot #1, atheist #1417,
Chief EAC prophet -
Evil Atheist Conspiracy
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~pk1956/

"Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever
conceived." - Isaac Asimov

Fingerprint for PGP Keys at key server or go to
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~pk1956/
RSA - 71 BA 7C 45 B5 4A 5F EA 72 DB EC 7F 7F A8 70 99
DSS - 9217 21A9 9C3F EB0B E302 AD0E 69C5 0F06 402E 0943


 




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