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lal_truckee wrote:
[deletia] This thread is being cross-posted to: rec.arts.sf.science, rec.arts.sf.written, soc.history.what-if and sci.space.policy If you are thinking of responding to this thread, kindly check headers and only post to group(s) you consider appropriate. [Headers set] - Syd -- "Yeah, yeah. Free will and all that. It's not clear whether that applies to the real world or if Nixon is always beaten to death in South America." - James Nicoll philosophises |
#13
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"Jim Davis" wrote in message
. 247.90... wrote: That is your right, but believe me, I am serious. That's how *intense* my drive to explore really is. Perhaps you simply can't understand, but that's the way it is for me. chuckle Your drive is so intense you just can't wait for someone else to do the heavy lifting so you can explore space, right? Give me a method of contributing to the heavy lifting, and I'll do it myself. Unfortunately, I don't currently have access to the afforementioned huge resources necessary to do said heavy lifting myself, and so, yes, I can't wait for someone else to do it. Like the OP, I'm somewhat disappointed, if not surprised, at the lack of similar drive among those who do have the resources, though recent well-publicized advances in private aerospace are definitely encouraging. -l. ------------------------------------ My inbox is a sacred shrine, none shall enter that are not worthy. |
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#15
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Logan Kearsley wrote:
Give me a method of contributing to the heavy lifting, and I'll do it myself. chuckle *Give* you a method? You want to get into space in the worst way, don't you? Unfortunately, I don't currently have access to the afforementioned huge resources necessary to do said heavy lifting myself, and so, yes, I can't wait for someone else to do it. And they say men of such daring are gone forever. Like the OP, I'm somewhat disappointed, if not surprised, at the lack of similar drive among those who do have the resources, though recent well-publicized advances in private aerospace are definitely encouraging. LOL!! The man wants space handed to him on a silver platter but is "disappointed, if not surprised, in the lack of similar drive in others". Jim Davis |
#16
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lclough wrote:
wrote: Otherwise, why would embittered clowns like yourself have to spend so many hours trying to refute the obvious? Historically, there are only three engines that drive exploration. False, and laughably so. The human motivations involved can hardly be reduced to three. The prospect of material wealth (gold, oil, whale blubber, a quarter section of prairie) is far and away the most popular. That motivation and others are *not* mutually exclusive. Many pioneers have been motivated by the prospect of material wealth *and* the prospect of adventure, for example. Another very common motivation in the past is nationalism -- we must get to the Moon, Antarctica, the New World, before those awful Communists, Norwegians, or Portugese do it. Do you think the Apollo missions were motivated *solely* by nationalism, to the exclusion of the sense of wonder, exploration, fascination with the unknown, etc.? If so, you are completely out of touch with reality. Religious reasons come in third, and supply a handy cloak to cover the naked ambition of the first two motives. We want to convert the heathens to Christianity, or teach the natives about Islam. Again, this hardly excludes other motivations. For these three goals, people and governments are willing to spend money. Any other motives -- science, the love of the unknown, and so on -- may be bruited merrily about, but they don't open wallets. Obviously false. You really shouldn't say something so silly, because it damages your credibility. If people weren't fascinated with the unknown, you'd see *far* less support for the space program. Why do you think they even showed the moon landing on television? People were fascinated with our unchartered, faraway moon being explored for the first time. Are you really dense enough to believe that fascination doesn't enter the picture? Many people saw it as a "great leap for mankind," not just for Americans. By the way, why do you think people even *open wallets* to buy your sci-fi novels, if not fascination with the unknown? And yet here you are, denying that such fascination exists at all. Are you so dead inside that you can see no wonder in exploring new worlds? Why do you write scifi then? Solely to make money? I'm puzzled. Aren't there easier and more obvious career paths for someone who so completely lacks a sense of wonder? Are there any solid examples in history of major exploration driven by a goal other than the big three? The only one I can think of is, possibly, Alexander the Great. Who had enough money, after conquering Persia, and enough empire, to keep anybody happy, and the Greeks were not really evangelizers -- so what drove him to try and conquer India? But then Alexander did not really have to consult with others. You seem to be changing your argument now and backing off from your original premise. Yes, I would say that Alexander was driven in part by a sense of adventure and heroism. But this is nothing that exceptional. I would say that a vast number of expeditions throughout history have been motivated in part by a sense of wonder, adventure, and desire to explore the unknown. To deny this is to deny something essential to humanity. When a child sneaks out of bed to find out what lurks in some forbidden room, that is the drive to explore manifest. To pretend this drive has never motivated exploration is simply absurd. It happens *all the time*. Hell, people vicariously explore other worlds through science fiction because of this drive. Being an apparent scifi author, you should be the *last* person not to know that. |
#17
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"Jim Davis" wrote in message
. 247.90... Logan Kearsley wrote: Give me a method of contributing to the heavy lifting, and I'll do it myself. *Give* you a method? You want to get into space in the worst way, don't you? As in 'inform me of what I can do to help', not 'donate oodles of cash'. Unfortunately, I don't currently have access to the aforementioned huge resources necessary to do said heavy lifting myself, and so, yes, I can't wait for someone else to do it. And they say men of such daring are gone forever. Oh, thine sarcasm pierces me to the very heart! I die, melodrama, melodrama! Like the OP, I'm somewhat disappointed, if not surprised, at the lack of similar drive among those who do have the resources, though recent well-publicized advances in private aerospace are definitely encouraging. LOL!! The man wants space handed to him on a silver platter but is "disappointed, if not surprised, in the lack of similar drive in others". Hardly. Possibly the OP wants space handed to him on a silver platter, although I'd be more ready to ascribe his comments to a bit of overenthusiasm. I'd *like* space handed to me on a silver platter- heck, who wouldn't?- but I'm perfectly willing to work for it, just as soon as I figure out exactly what to do. -l. ------------------------------------ My inbox is a sacred shrine, none shall enter that are not worthy. |
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lclough wrote:
wrote: Otherwise, why would embittered clowns like yourself have to spend so many hours trying to refute the obvious? Historically, there are only three engines that drive exploration. Right, just those three motivations; that's all! Personal glory, a sense of excitement, adventure, and wonder, the search for knowledge, exploration for its own sake, etc., *never* enter into it. Nevermind that many explorers themselves speak of these motivations; they must all be lying, just so your nonsense can be true. Nevermind that virtually every child I've ever seen explores *everything* out of a sheer sense of wonder; they don't count. We're all just like you; we grow up and completely bury that sense of wonder. Yeah, right. I just want to emphasize that I'm astounded an apparent *scifi author* could pretend that the human drive to explore does not exist. People open their wallets to buy your books *because* of this very drive. However, considering that you not only lack a sense of wonder but project the same failing upon all humanity, your books must be pretty disappointing. Count me out as a potential customer. |
#19
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#20
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Logan Kearsley wrote:
Hardly. Possibly the OP wants space handed to him on a silver platter, Um, no. Where do you get such an idea? Nowhere have I stated such an expectation or even *implied* it. Quite the opposite, in fact. As I've already stated, I don't expect *anything* to be handed to me, on or off a silver platter. although I'd be more ready to ascribe his comments to a bit of overenthusiasm. How so? I'd *like* space handed to me on a silver platter- heck, who wouldn't?- but I'm perfectly willing to work for it, just as soon as I figure out exactly what to do. Well, according to Brenda Clough's original argument, *no one* would want to explore space. Or any other frontier. That is, unless they could make money doing it, or please God and Country. IOW, Brenda believes that people do not explore to explore; that no one is truly fascinated with the unknown. Apparently, in her strange universe, people must read scifi simply to pass time; a desire to vicariously explore other worlds has nothing to do with it! According to several others here, only a tiny percentage of people (if that) have the urge to explore. For 99.9% of people, say these naysayers, a desire to explore simply does not exist. It's not me who is overenthusiastic. It's these naysayers who lack *any* enthusiasm. They're dead inside. |
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