#11
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Shuttle ET crack
On 11/6/2010 7:17 AM, Brian Thorn wrote:
On Fri, 5 Nov 2010 16:40:47 -0700 (PDT), " wrote: i would assume it cracked after fueling. Yes. wasnt this the katrina damaged tank that was fixed? No, that's ET-122 (which would fly STS-135 if funded). This is ET-137. My goof. According to this, the damaged one (ET-122) will fly on the final planned mission, and ET-138 will fly on a Atlantis rescue mission to the ISS if the Endeavour crew were stranded there for some reason: http://spaceflightnow.com/shuttle/sts134/100922etship/ Otherwise it might fly on a added mission for ISS resupply...what happens then if _that_ crew gets stranded? It sounds like a job for a minimal crew size mission, as you would need at least three extra Soyuz to get everyone back if it had a seven-person crew. Pat |
#12
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Shuttle ET crack
On 11/6/2010 10:51 AM, Val Kraut wrote:
" One thing people had better carefully consider regarding the operational history of the Shuttle in regards to any future reusable launch vehicle is how often launches were delayed due to either mechanical problems or weather constraints ........scheduled launch dates could not be counted on with any degree of certainty during the entire program. There are many who believe that global warming - no matter what the cause - will result in more extreme weather such as stronger more frequent hurricanes and storms. Many years back, I read the area around the Cape has more thunderstorms on average per year than any other place in the US. It might be time to rethink where we launch rockets from. We do have a lot of islands out in the Pacific with better average weather that could be turned into launch centers, the largest being Hawaii. Pat |
#13
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Shuttle ET crack
On 11/6/2010 10:51 AM, Val Kraut wrote:
There are many who believe that global warming - no matter what the cause - I'm pretty sure that our species is the cause, and that the abnormally long solar storm minimum we had in the last 11 year sunspot cycle disguised that reality. Now that things are getting back to normal on the Sun, the next decade should give pretty firm proof if that's the case. The thing is of course that all the nations that border the arctic icepack are gleefully looking forward to it thawing so they can exploit the mineral resources under it and use the open waters as the realization of the "northwest passage" to move things by ship faster around the northern hemisphere, no matter if global warming wreaks havoc down near the equator, raises sea levels worldwide, and increases the number of severe yearly storms. If it does get that bad, then Bangladesh is about the last place you would want to live, as its low average elevation over sea level already makes it highly susceptible to tropical storms, and rising sea levels plus more severe storms are going to make it damn near uninhabitable. In the sci-fi series "Babylon 5", they once showed Earth in the future from orbit, with around 1/4 of the total land area of the planet centered on the equator being a vast series of deserts. That's a pretty spooky thing to think about. Last time something like that occurred was during the Permian extinction, known as "Great Dying" because around 90% of all living species went extinct, including the vast majority of our earliest ancestors, the mammal-like reptiles. Pat |
#14
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Shuttle ET crack
In article
tatelephone, Pat Flannery wrote: On 11/6/2010 10:51 AM, Val Kraut wrote: " One thing people had better carefully consider regarding the operational history of the Shuttle in regards to any future reusable launch vehicle is how often launches were delayed due to either mechanical problems or weather constraints ........scheduled launch dates could not be counted on with any degree of certainty during the entire program. There are many who believe that global warming - no matter what the cause - will result in more extreme weather such as stronger more frequent hurricanes and storms. Many years back, I read the area around the Cape has more thunderstorms on average per year than any other place in the US. It might be time to rethink where we launch rockets from. We do have a lot of islands out in the Pacific with better average weather that could be turned into launch centers, the largest being Hawaii. Pat I have visited South point, on the Big Island and can tell you that it is NOT a good place to launch rockets! The wind does not blow there -- it sucks! They even ahve a wind turbine farm there to catch the prevailing winds. |
#15
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Shuttle ET crack
In article
tatelephone, Pat Flannery wrote: On 11/6/2010 10:51 AM, Val Kraut wrote: There are many who believe that global warming - no matter what the cause - I'm pretty sure that our species is the cause, and that the abnormally long solar storm minimum we had in the last 11 year sunspot cycle disguised that reality. Now that things are getting back to normal on the Sun, the next decade should give pretty firm proof if that's the case. The thing is of course that all the nations that border the arctic icepack are gleefully looking forward to it thawing so they can exploit the mineral resources under it and use the open waters as the realization of the "northwest passage" to move things by ship faster around the northern hemisphere, no matter if global warming wreaks havoc down near the equator, raises sea levels worldwide, and increases the number of severe yearly storms. If it does get that bad, then Bangladesh is about the last place you would want to live, as its low average elevation over sea level already makes it highly susceptible to tropical storms, and rising sea levels plus more severe storms are going to make it damn near uninhabitable. In the sci-fi series "Babylon 5", they once showed Earth in the future from orbit, with around 1/4 of the total land area of the planet centered on the equator being a vast series of deserts. That's a pretty spooky thing to think about. Last time something like that occurred was during the Permian extinction, known as "Great Dying" because around 90% of all living species went extinct, including the vast majority of our earliest ancestors, the mammal-like reptiles. Pat Speaking of Bangladesh, a friend who used to fly for Trans America says that the very mention of Bangladesh makes his skin crawl. He says the best way to see bangladesh is from 30Kft -- preferably higher. According to him it never was a good place to live! |
#16
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Shuttle ET crack
On 11/6/2010 6:58 PM, Pat Flannery wrote:
Last time something like that occurred was during the Permian extinction, known as _The_ "Great Dying". including the vast majority of our earliest ancestors, the mammal-like reptiles. BTW, ever wonder where the giant reptile-dog critters came from in "Ghostbusters"? Meet your ancestor Scutosaurus: http://megadino.m.e.pic.centerblog.net/tdvbvsrb.jpg 8.5 feet of real vegetarian trouble, with a skeleton so robust that it would do a rhino proud: http://blog.everythingdinosaur.co.uk...keletonjpg.jpg If this smaller version of the same type creature looks a bit familier also, remember the baby dragons out of the movie "Dragonslayer": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elginia Pat |
#17
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Shuttle ET crack
On Sat, 06 Nov 2010 17:42:08 -0800, Pat Flannery wrote:
On 11/6/2010 10:51 AM, Val Kraut wrote: " One thing people had better carefully consider regarding the operational history of the Shuttle in regards to any future reusable launch vehicle is how often launches were delayed due to either mechanical problems or weather constraints ........scheduled launch dates could not be counted on with any degree of certainty during the entire program. There are many who believe that global warming - no matter what the cause - will result in more extreme weather such as stronger more frequent hurricanes and storms. Many years back, I read the area around the Cape has more thunderstorms on average per year than any other place in the US. Nope - that's on the other side of the Peninsula - Tampa, IIRC, is referred to by the local Amerinds as "The place the lighting hits". Barring hurricanes, storms in FL have a different character than they do up North. The combination or heat and humidity in the Summer (Or at least Really Not Winter) months produces isolated thunderstorms that will pop up, move quickly, and dissipate quickly. A thunderstorm down here rarely lasts more than 1/2 hour. (Although that 1/2 hour may be violent) Other than that, the weather is quite predictable. It might be time to rethink where we launch rockets from. We do have a lot of islands out in the Pacific with better average weather that could be turned into launch centers, the largest being Hawaii. Uhm, Pat, loot at the stats of where the highest rainfall is. Any tropical location with a coastline will have the same weather that Florida gets. -- Pete Stickney Failure is not an option It comes bundled with the system |
#18
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Shuttle ET crack
On Sat, 06 Nov 2010 13:47:04 -0800, Pat Flannery
wrote: According to this, the damaged one (ET-122) will fly on the final planned mission, and ET-138 will fly on a Atlantis rescue mission to the ISS if the Endeavour crew were stranded there for some reason: http://spaceflightnow.com/shuttle/sts134/100922etship/ This is dependent on STS-135 being funded, and soon. That now seems extremely unlikely. With no definite plan to fly STS-135, NASA will stay on the "pre-135-approval" course and use the best tank for the last planned flight, so ET-138 on STS-134 and ET-122 would only fly on a LON mission. Personally, I think 135 died on Tuesday. Otherwise it might fly on a added mission for ISS resupply...what happens then if _that_ crew gets stranded? It sounds like a job for a minimal crew size mission, as you would need at least three extra Soyuz to get everyone back if it had a seven-person crew. STS-135 would be a four person crew: Ferguson, Hurley, Magnus, and Walheim. It will take over a year to get everyone home on Soyuz. Brian |
#19
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Shuttle ET crack
On Sat, 6 Nov 2010 08:39:30 -0400, "Val Kraut"
wrote: There's an old song about This Old House. Maybe they should rethink these last two missions. The thing seems to be failing quicker than they can fix it. The GUCP (Ground Umbilical Carrier Plate) that leaked is part of the External Tank/Launch Pad interface. The External Tank is brand new each mission. The launch pad side was redesigned last year after smaller leaks. All launch pads have GUCPs or something similar. Brian |
#20
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Shuttle ET crack
On 11/6/2010 7:19 PM, Orval Fairbairn wrote:
It might be time to rethink where we launch rockets from. We do have a lot of islands out in the Pacific with better average weather that could be turned into launch centers, the largest being Hawaii. Pat I have visited South point, on the Big Island and can tell you that it is NOT a good place to launch rockets! The wind does not blow there -- it sucks! They even ahve a wind turbine farm there to catch the prevailing winds. What you need for a launch center are the following: 1. Good enough weather on average to allow on-time launches during the majority of the year, or at least weather predictable enough that you can know when weather constraints are likely to cause delayed launches, so that you can schedule launches during the favorable part of the year. 2. A position as near the equator as possible to allow max payload into orbit (this has a double benefit for anything commercial heading for GEO, as it needs to do less maneuvering on the way up.) 3. Lots of empty water off to the west for the booster stages to fall into. 4. Easy access to the launch site, as well as a sufficient degree of pre-existing civilian infrastructure to allow everyone working at the launch site to live comfortably and get everyday needs for any sort of standard upkeep of the launch site without needing any sort of time-consuming special shipments to that launch site from an area remote from it. Winds may be a problem at South Point, but if you pick a launch point in a sheltered area that allows the rocket to get several hundred feet into the air before it hits any severe sidewinds, its velocity will be great enough to overcome any wind effects on it during launch. I'll check some terrain maps of the Hawaiian islands in the next few days, and see if I can find an area that meets the wind requirements by having an area of far higher elevation directly to its west to shield the launch site from the prevailing westerlies. Ideally, even with Hawaii's advantages in regards to point 4 above, something on the equator would be better. Pat |
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