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Shuttle ET crack



 
 
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  #11  
Old November 6th 10, 10:47 PM posted to sci.space.history
Pat Flannery
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Posts: 18,465
Default Shuttle ET crack

On 11/6/2010 7:17 AM, Brian Thorn wrote:
On Fri, 5 Nov 2010 16:40:47 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

i would assume it cracked after fueling.


Yes.

wasnt this the katrina damaged tank that was fixed?


No, that's ET-122 (which would fly STS-135 if funded). This is ET-137.


My goof.
According to this, the damaged one (ET-122) will fly on the final
planned mission, and ET-138 will fly on a Atlantis rescue mission to
the ISS if the Endeavour crew were stranded there for some reason:
http://spaceflightnow.com/shuttle/sts134/100922etship/
Otherwise it might fly on a added mission for ISS resupply...what
happens then if _that_ crew gets stranded? It sounds like a job for a
minimal crew size mission, as you would need at least three extra Soyuz
to get everyone back if it had a seven-person crew.

Pat
  #12  
Old November 7th 10, 02:42 AM posted to sci.space.history
Pat Flannery
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Posts: 18,465
Default Shuttle ET crack

On 11/6/2010 10:51 AM, Val Kraut wrote:
" One thing people had better carefully consider regarding the operational
history of the Shuttle in regards to any future reusable launch vehicle is
how often launches were delayed due to either mechanical problems or
weather constraints ........scheduled launch dates could not be counted on
with any degree of certainty during the entire program.


There are many who believe that global warming - no matter what the cause -
will result in more extreme weather such as stronger more frequent
hurricanes and storms.


Many years back, I read the area around the Cape has more thunderstorms
on average per year than any other place in the US.
It might be time to rethink where we launch rockets from.
We do have a lot of islands out in the Pacific with better average
weather that could be turned into launch centers, the largest being Hawaii.

Pat



  #13  
Old November 7th 10, 03:58 AM posted to sci.space.history
Pat Flannery
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Posts: 18,465
Default Shuttle ET crack

On 11/6/2010 10:51 AM, Val Kraut wrote:

There are many who believe that global warming - no matter what the cause -


I'm pretty sure that our species is the cause, and that the abnormally
long solar storm minimum we had in the last 11 year sunspot cycle
disguised that reality. Now that things are getting back to normal on
the Sun, the next decade should give pretty firm proof if that's the case.
The thing is of course that all the nations that border the arctic
icepack are gleefully looking forward to it thawing so they can exploit
the mineral resources under it and use the open waters as the
realization of the "northwest passage" to move things by ship faster
around the northern hemisphere, no matter if global warming wreaks havoc
down near the equator, raises sea levels worldwide, and increases the
number of severe yearly storms.
If it does get that bad, then Bangladesh is about the last place you
would want to live, as its low average elevation over sea level already
makes it highly susceptible to tropical storms, and rising sea levels
plus more severe storms are going to make it damn near uninhabitable.
In the sci-fi series "Babylon 5", they once showed Earth in the future
from orbit, with around 1/4 of the total land area of the planet
centered on the equator being a vast series of deserts.
That's a pretty spooky thing to think about.
Last time something like that occurred was during the Permian
extinction, known as "Great Dying" because around 90% of all living
species went extinct, including the vast majority of our earliest
ancestors, the mammal-like reptiles.

Pat

  #14  
Old November 7th 10, 04:19 AM posted to sci.space.history
Orval Fairbairn[_2_]
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Posts: 154
Default Shuttle ET crack

In article
tatelephone,
Pat Flannery wrote:

On 11/6/2010 10:51 AM, Val Kraut wrote:
" One thing people had better carefully consider regarding the operational
history of the Shuttle in regards to any future reusable launch vehicle is
how often launches were delayed due to either mechanical problems or
weather constraints ........scheduled launch dates could not be counted on
with any degree of certainty during the entire program.


There are many who believe that global warming - no matter what the cause -
will result in more extreme weather such as stronger more frequent
hurricanes and storms.


Many years back, I read the area around the Cape has more thunderstorms
on average per year than any other place in the US.
It might be time to rethink where we launch rockets from.
We do have a lot of islands out in the Pacific with better average
weather that could be turned into launch centers, the largest being Hawaii.

Pat


I have visited South point, on the Big Island and can tell you that it
is NOT a good place to launch rockets! The wind does not blow there --
it sucks!

They even ahve a wind turbine farm there to catch the prevailing winds.
  #15  
Old November 7th 10, 04:22 AM posted to sci.space.history
Orval Fairbairn[_2_]
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Posts: 154
Default Shuttle ET crack

In article
tatelephone,
Pat Flannery wrote:

On 11/6/2010 10:51 AM, Val Kraut wrote:

There are many who believe that global warming - no matter what the cause -


I'm pretty sure that our species is the cause, and that the abnormally
long solar storm minimum we had in the last 11 year sunspot cycle
disguised that reality. Now that things are getting back to normal on
the Sun, the next decade should give pretty firm proof if that's the case.
The thing is of course that all the nations that border the arctic
icepack are gleefully looking forward to it thawing so they can exploit
the mineral resources under it and use the open waters as the
realization of the "northwest passage" to move things by ship faster
around the northern hemisphere, no matter if global warming wreaks havoc
down near the equator, raises sea levels worldwide, and increases the
number of severe yearly storms.
If it does get that bad, then Bangladesh is about the last place you
would want to live, as its low average elevation over sea level already
makes it highly susceptible to tropical storms, and rising sea levels
plus more severe storms are going to make it damn near uninhabitable.
In the sci-fi series "Babylon 5", they once showed Earth in the future
from orbit, with around 1/4 of the total land area of the planet
centered on the equator being a vast series of deserts.
That's a pretty spooky thing to think about.
Last time something like that occurred was during the Permian
extinction, known as "Great Dying" because around 90% of all living
species went extinct, including the vast majority of our earliest
ancestors, the mammal-like reptiles.

Pat


Speaking of Bangladesh, a friend who used to fly for Trans America says
that the very mention of Bangladesh makes his skin crawl. He says the
best way to see bangladesh is from 30Kft -- preferably higher.

According to him it never was a good place to live!
  #16  
Old November 7th 10, 04:39 AM posted to sci.space.history
Pat Flannery
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 18,465
Default Shuttle ET crack

On 11/6/2010 6:58 PM, Pat Flannery wrote:

Last time something like that occurred was during the Permian
extinction, known as


_The_ "Great Dying".

including the vast majority of our earliest
ancestors, the mammal-like reptiles.


BTW, ever wonder where the giant reptile-dog critters came from in
"Ghostbusters"?
Meet your ancestor Scutosaurus:
http://megadino.m.e.pic.centerblog.net/tdvbvsrb.jpg
8.5 feet of real vegetarian trouble, with a skeleton so robust that it
would do a rhino proud:
http://blog.everythingdinosaur.co.uk...keletonjpg.jpg
If this smaller version of the same type creature looks a bit familier
also, remember the baby dragons out of the movie "Dragonslayer":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elginia

Pat
  #17  
Old November 7th 10, 05:25 AM posted to sci.space.history
Peter Stickney[_2_]
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Posts: 124
Default Shuttle ET crack

On Sat, 06 Nov 2010 17:42:08 -0800, Pat Flannery wrote:

On 11/6/2010 10:51 AM, Val Kraut wrote:
" One thing people had better carefully consider regarding the
operational
history of the Shuttle in regards to any future reusable launch
vehicle is how often launches were delayed due to either mechanical
problems or weather constraints ........scheduled launch dates could
not be counted on with any degree of certainty during the entire
program.


There are many who believe that global warming - no matter what the
cause - will result in more extreme weather such as stronger more
frequent hurricanes and storms.


Many years back, I read the area around the Cape has more thunderstorms
on average per year than any other place in the US.


Nope - that's on the other side of the Peninsula - Tampa, IIRC, is referred to
by the local Amerinds as "The place the lighting hits".
Barring hurricanes, storms in FL have a different character than they do up
North. The combination or heat and humidity in the Summer (Or at least Really
Not Winter) months produces isolated thunderstorms that will pop up, move
quickly, and dissipate quickly. A thunderstorm down here rarely lasts more than
1/2 hour. (Although that 1/2 hour may be violent) Other than that, the weather
is quite predictable.

It might be time to rethink where we launch rockets from. We do have a lot of

islands out in the Pacific with better average weather that could be turned into launch
centers, the largest being Hawaii.


Uhm, Pat, loot at the stats of where the highest rainfall is.
Any tropical location with a coastline will have the same weather
that Florida gets.

--
Pete Stickney
Failure is not an option
It comes bundled with the system
  #18  
Old November 7th 10, 06:37 AM posted to sci.space.history
Brian Thorn[_2_]
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Posts: 2,266
Default Shuttle ET crack

On Sat, 06 Nov 2010 13:47:04 -0800, Pat Flannery
wrote:


According to this, the damaged one (ET-122) will fly on the final
planned mission, and ET-138 will fly on a Atlantis rescue mission to
the ISS if the Endeavour crew were stranded there for some reason:
http://spaceflightnow.com/shuttle/sts134/100922etship/


This is dependent on STS-135 being funded, and soon. That now seems
extremely unlikely. With no definite plan to fly STS-135, NASA will
stay on the "pre-135-approval" course and use the best tank for the
last planned flight, so ET-138 on STS-134 and ET-122 would only fly on
a LON mission.

Personally, I think 135 died on Tuesday.

Otherwise it might fly on a added mission for ISS resupply...what
happens then if _that_ crew gets stranded? It sounds like a job for a
minimal crew size mission, as you would need at least three extra Soyuz
to get everyone back if it had a seven-person crew.


STS-135 would be a four person crew: Ferguson, Hurley, Magnus, and
Walheim. It will take over a year to get everyone home on Soyuz.

Brian
  #19  
Old November 7th 10, 06:41 AM posted to sci.space.history
Brian Thorn[_2_]
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Posts: 2,266
Default Shuttle ET crack

On Sat, 6 Nov 2010 08:39:30 -0400, "Val Kraut"
wrote:

There's an old song about This Old House. Maybe they should rethink these
last two missions. The thing seems to be failing quicker than they can fix
it.


The GUCP (Ground Umbilical Carrier Plate) that leaked is part of the
External Tank/Launch Pad interface. The External Tank is brand new
each mission. The launch pad side was redesigned last year after
smaller leaks. All launch pads have GUCPs or something similar.

Brian
  #20  
Old November 7th 10, 07:54 AM posted to sci.space.history
Pat Flannery
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Posts: 18,465
Default Shuttle ET crack

On 11/6/2010 7:19 PM, Orval Fairbairn wrote:

It might be time to rethink where we launch rockets from.
We do have a lot of islands out in the Pacific with better average
weather that could be turned into launch centers, the largest being Hawaii.

Pat


I have visited South point, on the Big Island and can tell you that it
is NOT a good place to launch rockets! The wind does not blow there --
it sucks!

They even ahve a wind turbine farm there to catch the prevailing winds.


What you need for a launch center are the following:
1. Good enough weather on average to allow on-time launches during the
majority of the year, or at least weather predictable enough that you
can know when weather constraints are likely to cause delayed launches,
so that you can schedule launches during the favorable part of the year.
2. A position as near the equator as possible to allow max payload into
orbit (this has a double benefit for anything commercial heading for
GEO, as it needs to do less maneuvering on the way up.)
3. Lots of empty water off to the west for the booster stages to fall into.
4. Easy access to the launch site, as well as a sufficient degree of
pre-existing civilian infrastructure to allow everyone working at the
launch site to live comfortably and get everyday needs for any sort of
standard upkeep of the launch site without needing any sort of
time-consuming special shipments to that launch site from an area remote
from it.
Winds may be a problem at South Point, but if you pick a launch point in
a sheltered area that allows the rocket to get several hundred feet into
the air before it hits any severe sidewinds, its velocity will be great
enough to overcome any wind effects on it during launch.
I'll check some terrain maps of the Hawaiian islands in the next few
days, and see if I can find an area that meets the wind requirements by
having an area of far higher elevation directly to its west to shield
the launch site from the prevailing westerlies.
Ideally, even with Hawaii's advantages in regards to point 4 above,
something on the equator would be better.

Pat

 




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