Cronkite Has Lost It

James Oberg wrote:

The theme I was asking about was whether NASA in the 1960s was MANAGED like
a military organization, not what the military applications of its
technology might have been.

Sorry I wasn't clear.

Frankly, I'm highly skeptical of the alleged analogy, because military
groups accomplish goals with methods that are well defined and they apply
known technologies. Apollo had to invent it as it went along, requiring much
more 'loose' leadership style and flexibility.

Well, the Marshall Space Flight Center under Werner Von Braun
was certainly managed like a military organization. Not only had
Von Braun and his German scientists come over the U.S. after
World War II from the V2 program, a very military program.

The NASA Marshall Space Flight Center was a transfer from
the Redstone Arsenal. It was located physically on the Redstone Arsenal
and when I was working there during the 1960-62 era there was a
distinctly military aura.

Walter Cronkite has lost it? Perhaps his analogies weren't
quite correct, but Mr. Oberg you have fallen into the same
intellectual trap that you are accusing Cronkite of.

You are assuming that military R&D always accomplishes goals
with methods that are well defined and apply known technologies.
You are falling into the "anti-military" trap that seems to assume that
the military is incapable of flexibility. There are a lot of examples that
disprove that kind of thinking.

ARPA, in particular, has been quite creative over the years.
The Air Force was quite creative at many times back in the days
when it was directed by Gen. Bernard Schreiver. As far as
capabilities go, I believe there were some experienced miltary
personnel called in to get things back in order after the Apollo I
fire. (Somehow that sounds currently familiar).

Mike Walsh

Michael Walsh wrote:

James Oberg wrote:

Frankly, I'm highly skeptical of the alleged analogy, because military
groups accomplish goals with methods that are well defined and they apply
known technologies. Apollo had to invent it as it went along, requiring much
more 'loose' leadership style and flexibility.

Well, the Marshall Space Flight Center under Werner Von Braun
was certainly managed like a military organization. Not only had
Von Braun and his German scientists come over the U.S. after
World War II from the V2 program, a very military program.

The NASA Marshall Space Flight Center was a transfer from
the Redstone Arsenal. It was located physically on the Redstone Arsenal
and when I was working there during the 1960-62 era there was a
distinctly military aura.

The problem Jim suffers under, and you seemingly as well; Is not
understanding that the military R&D labs are *not* 'military
organizations' in the normal sense.

D.
--
The STS-107 Columbia Loss FAQ can be found
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Enhanced HTML Version:
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Corrections, comments, and additions should be
e-mailed to , as well as posted to
sci.space.history and sci.space.shuttle for
discussion.

James Oberg wrote:
"stmx3" wrote in message
...

Other than that, I found nothing wrong with it.



Do you think the 'military culture' analogy for the Apollo Project is
accurate? I think it's bizarre at best, totally raving at worst. But it's
'original', that's for sure!





Yes, I do. At least I believe there was more of a "military" frame of
mind then than there is now. By that, I mean the discipline and
integrity of the workforce. Today, there's more conniving,
backstabbing, blaming and political maneuvering. And it's taking away
from the task at hand.

Note...this is just my opinion. I wasn't part of NASA back then.

Derek Lyons wrote:

Michael Walsh wrote:

James Oberg wrote:

Frankly, I'm highly skeptical of the alleged analogy, because military
groups accomplish goals with methods that are well defined and they apply
known technologies. Apollo had to invent it as it went along, requiring much
more 'loose' leadership style and flexibility.

Well, the Marshall Space Flight Center under Werner Von Braun
was certainly managed like a military organization. Not only had
Von Braun and his German scientists come over the U.S. after
World War II from the V2 program, a very military program.

The NASA Marshall Space Flight Center was a transfer from
the Redstone Arsenal. It was located physically on the Redstone Arsenal
and when I was working there during the 1960-62 era there was a
distinctly military aura.

The problem Jim suffers under, and you seemingly as well; Is not
understanding that the military R&D labs are *not* 'military
organizations' in the normal sense.

D.

The normal sense of what?

The military R&D labs are certainly part of the military.
They obviously are not either operational fighting units or
even part of the supply train. However, just because the
military R&D labs don't meet the criteria of being
the lock-step, rigid organizations associated in peoples
minds with the military doesn't suddenly make them
civilian organizations.

I guess what I am asking is, "What's your point?"

Mike Walsh