Opportunity toaster:( has traveled 22 mars miles

In article mn.4a267dd224a9bb05.127094@snitoo,
says...

Jeff Findley presented the following explanation :

None of your "mass produced" toaster proposals properly deal with this
issue. There is *nothing* like an AI which is cheap enough, powerful
enough (processing wise), miserly with power, and creative enough to
actually handle the unexpected on Mars.

Mind you, we had had unmanned craft land on the moon before Apollo 11:
Surveyor, Lunokhod. They represented efforts to find out enough about
the surface to know if humans could land there. They certainly weren't
mass produced, though, nor inexpensive, and landing them involved a lot
of luck. And we didn't find out much more about the moon than
confirming the gravitational acceleration (on earth, we call that 'g')
and determining a little of the surface texture (sand? dust? solid
rock?).

And there was a long string of failures of unmanned lunar landers before
there was a single success. They certainly didn't have the sort of
"AI" that Bob keeps harping about. And they certainly couldn't handle
the unexpected.

It isn't lost on me that the first manned lunar landing attempt was
successful, despite the challenges and the unexpected cropping up.

Jeff
--
"the perennial claim that hypersonic airbreathing propulsion would
magically make space launch cheaper is nonsense -- LOX is much cheaper
than advanced airbreathing engines, and so are the tanks to put it in
and the extra thrust to carry it." - Henry Spencer

In article 4bf007f9-3006-40cd-96b2-c0be2822c959
@x13g2000vby.googlegroups.com, says...

CBS News) The technology behind drones is developing rapidly. Today,
drones used to attack targets are flown by remote control by pilots on
the ground. But a new generation has no pilot at all. They can be
completely guided by computer.



A new type of vehicle being developed by the Navy looks like stealth
bomber and could probably carry 4,000 pounds of weapons, but there's
no pilot in the cockpit. Navy Capt. Jaime Engdahl is director of
what's called the X-47B Project.


"It is an autonomous vehicle so it's flying itself ... It's a very
unique aircraft," Engdahl said.

Watch: Brennan: Drones only used as "last resort"
Amid protests, Brennan defends drone program
Brennan, White House under fire for drone policy

This afternoon, responding to a computer program, the X-47B launched
from a land-based catapult at a Navy test facility in Maryland.


"The test went very well and it's very significant because this is the
first time we're actually doing catapult shots with a vehicle with
nobody in the cockpit," Engdahl said.


The X-47B has already performed taxi tests aboard the USS Truman and
will soon attempt the first unmanned take off and landing from an
aircraft carrier.


"We're working the carrier schedules right now so sometime this spring
or summer [the drone will take off and land on a carrier]," Engdahl
said.

Experimental, not operational. One-off's, not mass produced. And just
because they can fly themselves in very carefully controlled tests
doesn't mean they have been proven to handle the unexpected during
combat.

The pursuit of autonomous military aircraft has been very long (spanning
decades) and the pursuit isn't over just yet.

Jeff
--
"the perennial claim that hypersonic airbreathing propulsion would
magically make space launch cheaper is nonsense -- LOX is much cheaper
than advanced airbreathing engines, and so are the tanks to put it in
and the extra thrust to carry it." - Henry Spencer

Jeff Findley wrote:

In article , lid says...

Jeff Findley wrote:

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...trols_2007-08-
07.jpg

The intelligences in the picture look awfully human to me.

I'm not sure how intelligent the humans look.

More intelligent than any of the toasters currently on Mars.

grin

On Feb 9, 11:29*pm, Fred J. McCall wrote:
bob haller wrote:
CBS News) The technology behind drones is developing rapidly. Today,
drones used to attack targets are flown by remote control by pilots on
the ground. But a new generation has no pilot at all. They can be
completely guided by computer.

Note that this is NOT 'AI'.



A new type of vehicle being developed by the Navy looks like stealth
bomber and could probably carry 4,000 pounds of weapons, but there's
no pilot in the cockpit. Navy Capt. Jaime Engdahl is director of
what's called the X-47B Project.

Late to the game, Bobbert.



"It is an autonomous vehicle so it's flying itself ... It's a very
unique aircraft," Engdahl said.

Weapons have been doing this for a long, long time (Tomahawk, JSOW,
JASSM, etc).



Watch: Brennan: Drones only used as "last resort"
Amid protests, Brennan defends drone program
Brennan, White House under fire for drone policy

Nothing to do with anything.



This afternoon, responding to a computer program, the X-47B launched
from a land-based catapult at a Navy test facility in Maryland.

All this proves is that the thing won't fall apart structurally from a
cat shot. *That's what they do at Pax River.



"The test went very well and it's very significant because this is the
first time we're actually doing catapult shots with a vehicle with
nobody in the cockpit," Engdahl said.

However, note that vehicles that do have a pilot in the cockpit have
routinely done the same thing. *Watch a film of an F/A-18 launch
sometime. *Watch the pilot. *Just before the cat shot you'll see him
raise both hands. *This is to indicate that his hands are NOT on the
controls. *The F/A-18 gets itself into the air.

Just by the way, it's also capable of automated landings, but pilots
don't like to trust that.



The X-47B has already performed taxi tests aboard the USS Truman and
will soon attempt the first unmanned take off and landing from an
aircraft carrier.

"We're working the carrier schedules right now so sometime this spring
or summer [the drone will take off and land on a carrier]," Engdahl
said.

And when it can do that in 'dirty' weather, come talk to me...

--
"Ignorance is preferable to error, and he is less remote from the
*truth who believes nothing than he who believes what is wrong."
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *-- Thomas Jefferson


they will land and take off automously from a carrier, thats
reportedly the hardest job a pilot has. one can assume its a all
weather system. since launching in nice weather may see bad weather on
return, flying such expensive airplanes into the sea wouldnt be good

On Feb 10, 2:43*pm, Fred J. McCall wrote:
bob haller wrote:
On Feb 9, 11:29*pm, Fred J. McCall wrote:
bob haller wrote:
CBS News) The technology behind drones is developing rapidly. Today,
drones used to attack targets are flown by remote control by pilots on
the ground. But a new generation has no pilot at all. They can be
completely guided by computer.

Note that this is NOT 'AI'.

A new type of vehicle being developed by the Navy looks like stealth
bomber and could probably carry 4,000 pounds of weapons, but there's
no pilot in the cockpit. Navy Capt. Jaime Engdahl is director of
what's called the X-47B Project.

Late to the game, Bobbert.

"It is an autonomous vehicle so it's flying itself ... It's a very
unique aircraft," Engdahl said.

Weapons have been doing this for a long, long time (Tomahawk, JSOW,
JASSM, etc).

Watch: Brennan: Drones only used as "last resort"
Amid protests, Brennan defends drone program
Brennan, White House under fire for drone policy

Nothing to do with anything.

This afternoon, responding to a computer program, the X-47B launched
from a land-based catapult at a Navy test facility in Maryland.

All this proves is that the thing won't fall apart structurally from a
cat shot. *That's what they do at Pax River.

"The test went very well and it's very significant because this is the
first time we're actually doing catapult shots with a vehicle with
nobody in the cockpit," Engdahl said.

However, note that vehicles that do have a pilot in the cockpit have
routinely done the same thing. *Watch a film of an F/A-18 launch
sometime. *Watch the pilot. *Just before the cat shot you'll see him
raise both hands. *This is to indicate that his hands are NOT on the
controls. *The F/A-18 gets itself into the air.

Just by the way, it's also capable of automated landings, but pilots
don't like to trust that.

The X-47B has already performed taxi tests aboard the USS Truman and
will soon attempt the first unmanned take off and landing from an
aircraft carrier.

"We're working the carrier schedules right now so sometime this spring
or summer [the drone will take off and land on a carrier]," Engdahl
said.

And when it can do that in 'dirty' weather, come talk to me...

they will land and take off automously from a carrier, thats
reportedly the hardest job a pilot has.

Planes can do that automatically NOW. *If the weather isn't too bad.



one can assume its a all
weather system. since launching in nice weather may see bad weather on
return, flying such expensive airplanes into the sea wouldnt be good

Oh, so we're supposed to believe YOUR 'assumptions' when you don't
even have a clue how the system works and think it's 'AI'. *Or do you
not know what AI is, either? *Yeah, that would fit.

What *DO* you know anything about, Bobbert?

--
"There's nothing wrong with you that reincarnation won't cure."
* * * * * * * * * * * * * *-- Jack E. Leonard

well it must have enough intelligence to avoid being shot down,
crashing in bad weather etc.... They have plans for bombing uses, that
will require a pretty smart control.......

not only to bomb the right location but avoid bombing wrong ones

of course our military will make all the specs public, with details on
everything

smart bombs that fly exactly into buildings are impossible

auto drive vehicles ... just cant be done

a man land on the moon, dont be silly they would get buried in moon
dust.

send a rover to mars, have it drive around and use a drill to take
samples. absurd.

everything that can be invented has been as such the patent office
needs to be shut down. that was from the head of the patent office in
the mid 19 hundreds or some such.

Your point?


"bob haller" wrote in message
...

smart bombs that fly exactly into buildings are impossible

auto drive vehicles ... just cant be done

a man land on the moon, dont be silly they would get buried in moon
dust.

send a rover to mars, have it drive around and use a drill to take
samples. absurd.

everything that can be invented has been as such the patent office
needs to be shut down. that was from the head of the patent office in
the mid 19 hundreds or some such.



--
Greg D. Moore http://greenmountainsoftware.wordpress.com/
CEO QuiCR: Quick, Crowdsourced Responses. http://www.quicr.net

On Monday, February 11, 2013 8:20:22 AM UTC-5, bob haller wrote:
smart bombs that fly exactly into buildings are impossible



auto drive vehicles ... just cant be done



a man land on the moon, dont be silly they would get buried in moon

dust.



send a rover to mars, have it drive around and use a drill to take

samples. absurd.



everything that can be invented has been as such the patent office

needs to be shut down. that was from the head of the patent office in

the mid 19 hundreds or some such.

If you are being sarcastic, engaging your caps key to properly capitalize would go a long way.

In article 03cf7308-34bd-4e7e-86a4-
, says...

smart bombs that fly exactly into buildings are impossible

Just because they're "smart bombs" doesn't make them especially "smart".
They are programmed to hit a single location. In other words, GPS and
some limited optical sensors and processing so they hit a designated
target. Smart bombs can't deal with the unexpected.

Smart bombs don't have an "AI".

auto drive vehicles ... just cant be done

More complicated than "smart bombs", but still can't handle the
unexpected. They are therefore required, by law in the states where
they are legal, to be "driven" only by a licensed driver who can take
over at a moment's notice to handle the unexpected.

They don't have an "AI".

a man land on the moon, dont be silly they would get buried in moon
dust.

Possible only because the LEM contained a trained commander and pilot.
Note the problems encountered on Apollo 11, especially those related to
the 1202 and 1203 errors being thrown by the *computer*.

The LEM did not have an "AI".

send a rover to mars, have it drive around and use a drill to take
samples. absurd.

Completely controlled from the earth with the rover executing
preprogrammed sequences such as drilling into a rock. In fact, there
are entire teams of *people* on earth dedicated to controlling the Mars
rovers. The rovers can't handle the unexpected. If *anything* happens
that causes it to exceed any preprogrammed parameters, it goes into
"safe mode" which means it does *absolutely nothing* until it's told to
do so, by *people* on earth.

This is an extremely slow and extremely labor intensive way to explore
Mars. It just so happens that the people doing the labor are on earth.
In fact, if the people were on Mars, they could control the rovers in
real-time, which would mean that much more would get done in a lot
shorter amount of time.

The Mars rovers do not have an "AI".

everything that can be invented has been as such the patent office
needs to be shut down. that was from the head of the patent office in
the mid 19 hundreds or some such.

And yet, there is *nothing* which approaches the sort of "AI" that would
be needed for Mars rovers to operate independent of the remote input
huge teams of people on earth.

Jeff
--
"the perennial claim that hypersonic airbreathing propulsion would
magically make space launch cheaper is nonsense -- LOX is much cheaper
than advanced airbreathing engines, and so are the tanks to put it in
and the extra thrust to carry it." - Henry Spencer

On Feb 11, 11:29*am, Fred J. McCall wrote:
bob haller wrote:
smart bombs that fly exactly into buildings are impossible

Said no one anywhere, ever.



auto drive vehicles ... just cant be done

Said no one anywhere, ever, and we're still waiting.



a man land on the moon, dont be silly they would get buried in moon
dust.

Nobody said "dont be silly" and it was enough of a worry that they
sent toasters first to check it out before sending people.



send a rover to mars, have it drive around and use a drill to take
samples. absurd.

Said no one anywhere, ever. *Now that it has the sample, how much can
it do with it?



everything that can be invented has been as such the patent office
needs to be shut down. that was from the head of the patent office in
the mid 19 hundreds or some such.

And Bobbert thinks he has a point, but he doesn't. *He's just making
stupid noises again.

--
"Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar
*territory."
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * --G. Behn

Todays fantasies are tomorrows realties