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NASA, SpaceX Set First Dragon Launch To ISS



 
 
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  #11  
Old December 14th 11, 03:48 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Jeff Findley[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,388
Default NASA, SpaceX Set First Dragon Launch To ISS

In article 650f8368-3644-41ce-a01f-
,
says...

On Dec 13, 10:02*am, Alan Erskine wrote:
On 13/12/2011 5:22 PM, Matt Wiser wrote:

Now we'll see if Musk's rocket and capsule can do what he claims they can
do. So far from him, it's been 90% talk, 10% actually getting something up
and back.


What have you got against SpaceX?


Nothing against Space X, but Musk: the man's been shooting his mouth
off a lot. If he had stuck to his original schedule, the ISS Cargo
runs were supposed to be going by now. Not to mention that "retiring
on Mars" crap and some other statements that imply he was trying to
muscle in on NASA's exploration programs.


First cargo flight might happen early this year. It's still better
than paying the Russians.

But look at how badly NASA screwed themselves over. If Griffin hadn't
screwed the pooch by pushing Ares I as the one and only manned launch
vehicle for NASA, it's likely that we would be manned Orions to ISS on
EELV's by now.

Your dislike for Musk "shooting his mouth off" is matched by my dislike
of Griffin for picking the wrong path forward for NASA's launch vehicle
needs. Oddly enough, both Musk and Griffin are behind Stratolaunch.
Griffin is listed as being a "board member" for Stratolaunch.

Jeff
--
" Ares 1 is a prime example of the fact that NASA just can't get it
up anymore... and when they can, it doesn't stay up long. "
- tinker
  #12  
Old December 14th 11, 07:37 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Matt Wiser
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 575
Default NASA, SpaceX Set First Dragon Launch To ISS

On Dec 14, 6:48*am, Jeff Findley wrote:
In article 650f8368-3644-41ce-a01f-
,
says...



On Dec 13, 10:02*am, Alan Erskine wrote:
On 13/12/2011 5:22 PM, Matt Wiser wrote:


Now we'll see if Musk's rocket and capsule can do what he claims they can
do. So far from him, it's been 90% talk, 10% actually getting something up
and back.


What have you got against SpaceX?


Nothing against Space X, but Musk: the man's been shooting his mouth
off a lot. If he had stuck to his original schedule, the ISS Cargo
runs were supposed to be going by now. Not to mention that "retiring
on Mars" crap and some other statements that imply he was trying to
muscle in on NASA's exploration programs.


First cargo flight might happen early this year. * It's still better
than paying the Russians.

But look at how badly NASA screwed themselves over. *If Griffin hadn't
screwed the pooch by pushing Ares I as the one and only manned launch
vehicle for NASA, it's likely that we would be manned Orions to ISS on
EELV's by now.

Your dislike for Musk "shooting his mouth off" is matched by my dislike
of Griffin for picking the wrong path forward for NASA's launch vehicle
needs. *Oddly enough, both Musk and Griffin are behind Stratolaunch.
Griffin is listed as being a "board member" for Stratolaunch.

Jeff
--
" Ares 1 is a prime example of the fact that NASA just can't get it
* up anymore... and when they can, it doesn't stay up long. "
* *- tinker


I actually agree with you on Orion/EELV for LEO.

But I still loath this Musk-worship you find out there.The man's not
the Messiah when it comes to HSF, and he's looking way, way, ahead. At
least with this reusable Falcon 9 idea, he's putting up his own dinero-
maybe it works, maybe it doesn't.
  #14  
Old December 15th 11, 08:03 AM posted to sci.space.policy
Matt Wiser[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 157
Default NASA, SpaceX Set First Dragon Launch To ISS


"Jeff Findley" wrote in message
...
In article 9ee9f705-fe0b-44d8-8391-557d63d3bd40@
4g2000yqu.googlegroups.com, says...

I actually agree with you on Orion/EELV for LEO.

But I still loath this Musk-worship you find out there.The man's not
the Messiah when it comes to HSF, and he's looking way, way, ahead. At
least with this reusable Falcon 9 idea, he's putting up his own dinero-
maybe it works, maybe it doesn't.


The nice thing is that he's not the only one. Look at where the money
is coming from for Stratolaunch. This is what capitalism is all about.
NASA is unfortunately a government run socialistic enterprise when
they're developing their own launch vehicles.

Jeff
--
" Ares 1 is a prime example of the fact that NASA just can't get it
up anymore... and when they can, it doesn't stay up long. "
- tinker


I'm in favor of SLS/Orion and that doesn't need to be repeated further. In
case you haven't noticed, NASA is beholden to Congress, and if Congress says
"Thou Shalt build a heavy-lift vehicle" and appropriates the necesary funds,
NASA has to do it. They can't pick and choose what parts of the law (such as
the 2010 Space Authorization Act) to follow.

Stratolaunch will work with small payloads (it's been done with Pegasus
before), but larger ones...you need a conventional rocket for those.

Musk has admitted that he's only got 1% of the lobbying power that the big
boys (Boeing, Lockheed-Martin, ULA, Northrup-Grumman, etc. have). Trying to
convince Congresscritters that Commercial Cargo and Crew is a good way
forward has been a tough sell.




  #15  
Old December 15th 11, 12:21 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Bob Haller
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,197
Default NASA, SpaceX Set First Dragon Launch To ISS

On Dec 15, 2:03*am, "Matt Wiser" wrote:
"Jeff Findley" wrote in message

...





In article 9ee9f705-fe0b-44d8-8391-557d63d3bd40@
4g2000yqu.googlegroups.com, says...


I actually agree with you on Orion/EELV for LEO.


But I still loath this Musk-worship you find out there.The man's not
the Messiah when it comes to HSF, and he's looking way, way, ahead. At
least with this reusable Falcon 9 idea, he's putting up his own dinero-
maybe it works, maybe it doesn't.


The nice thing is that he's not the only one. *Look at where the money
is coming from for Stratolaunch. *This is what capitalism is all about.

  #16  
Old December 15th 11, 01:09 PM posted to sci.space.policy
J. Clarke[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 52
Default NASA, SpaceX Set First Dragon Launch To ISS

In article ,
says...

"Jeff Findley" wrote in message
...
In article 9ee9f705-fe0b-44d8-8391-557d63d3bd40@
4g2000yqu.googlegroups.com,
says...

I actually agree with you on Orion/EELV for LEO.

But I still loath this Musk-worship you find out there.The man's not
the Messiah when it comes to HSF, and he's looking way, way, ahead. At
least with this reusable Falcon 9 idea, he's putting up his own dinero-
maybe it works, maybe it doesn't.


The nice thing is that he's not the only one. Look at where the money
is coming from for Stratolaunch. This is what capitalism is all about.
NASA is unfortunately a government run socialistic enterprise when
they're developing their own launch vehicles.

Jeff
--
" Ares 1 is a prime example of the fact that NASA just can't get it
up anymore... and when they can, it doesn't stay up long. "
- tinker


I'm in favor of SLS/Orion and that doesn't need to be repeated further.


I'm not. It's reinventing the wheel and doesn't deal with the major
difficulty in space travel, which is launch costs, which will not be
reduced to a reasonable level until we quit throwing away the booster on
every launch. NASA should be working on that instead of yet another
stunt.

In
case you haven't noticed, NASA is beholden to Congress, and if Congress says
"Thou Shalt build a heavy-lift vehicle" and appropriates the necesary funds,
NASA has to do it. They can't pick and choose what parts of the law (such as
the 2010 Space Authorization Act) to follow.


And Congress told them to do that because NASA said that that was what
they wanted to do.

Stratolaunch will work with small payloads (it's been done with Pegasus
before), but larger ones...you need a conventional rocket for those.


Perhaps, perhaps not. If launch costs are low enough you can put a
facility on-orbit to assemble "larger ones" from smaller pieces.

Musk has admitted that he's only got 1% of the lobbying power that the big
boys (Boeing, Lockheed-Martin, ULA, Northrup-Grumman, etc. have). Trying to
convince Congresscritters that Commercial Cargo and Crew is a good way
forward has been a tough sell.


Why does he have to convince Congress of anything if he doesn't want
them to pay for it? If he's got a cheaper system, eventually the
public will demand that Congress quit wasting money on NASA's
throwaways.


  #17  
Old December 15th 11, 01:24 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Bob Haller
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,197
Default NASA, SpaceX Set First Dragon Launch To ISS

On Dec 15, 6:42*am, Fred J. McCall wrote:
bob haller wrote:

congress pure pork projects days are over given tight budgets. as a
matter of fact a few months ago all republican candidates pledged to
end MSF funding


As you've been repeatedly told, no they did not. *And, as has been
repeatedly explained to you, things that are said in response to
'forcing' questions hardly ever mean anything.

And so we see that, in addition to a total lack of any sort of
reasoning facility, your short term memory is apparently shot as well.

--
"Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar
*territory."
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * --G. Behn


time will tell.....

so you believe that while cutting medicare and social security for the
masses congress will increase or even not cut space spending?

well everyone here knows you live in a dream world
  #18  
Old December 15th 11, 02:05 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Bob Haller
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,197
Default NASA, SpaceX Set First Dragon Launch To ISS

On Dec 15, 7:09*am, "J. Clarke" wrote:
In article ,
says...







"Jeff Findley" wrote in message
...
In article 9ee9f705-fe0b-44d8-8391-557d63d3bd40@
4g2000yqu.googlegroups.com, says...


I actually agree with you on Orion/EELV for LEO.


But I still loath this Musk-worship you find out there.The man's not
the Messiah when it comes to HSF, and he's looking way, way, ahead. At
least with this reusable Falcon 9 idea, he's putting up his own dinero-
maybe it works, maybe it doesn't.


The nice thing is that he's not the only one. *Look at where the money
is coming from for Stratolaunch. *This is what capitalism is all about.
NASA is unfortunately a government run socialistic enterprise when
they're developing their own launch vehicles.


Jeff
--
" Ares 1 is a prime example of the fact that NASA just can't get it
* up anymore... and when they can, it doesn't stay up long. "
* *- tinker


I'm in favor of SLS/Orion and that doesn't need to be repeated further.


I'm not. *It's reinventing the wheel and doesn't deal with the major
difficulty in space travel, which is launch costs, which will not be
reduced to a reasonable level until we quit throwing away the booster on
every launch. *NASA should be working on that instead of yet another
stunt.

In
case you haven't noticed, NASA is beholden to Congress, and if Congress says
"Thou Shalt build a heavy-lift vehicle" and appropriates the necesary funds,
NASA has to do it. They can't pick and choose what parts of the law (such as
the 2010 Space Authorization Act) to follow.


And Congress told them to do that because NASA said that that was what
they wanted to do.

Stratolaunch will work with small payloads (it's been done with Pegasus
before), but larger ones...you need a conventional rocket for those.


Perhaps, perhaps not. *If launch costs are low enough you can put a
facility on-orbit to assemble "larger ones" from smaller pieces.

Musk has admitted that he's only got 1% of the lobbying power that the big
boys (Boeing, Lockheed-Martin, ULA, Northrup-Grumman, etc. have). Trying to
convince Congresscritters that Commercial Cargo and Crew is a good way
forward has been a tough sell.


Why does he have to convince Congress of anything if he doesn't want
them to pay for it? *If he's got a cheaper system, *eventually the
public will demand that Congress quit wasting money on NASA's
throwaways.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Theres no reason a stratlauncher couldnt be upscaled, to say 4 times
its planned size for even bigger heavier payloads.....

if the cost per pound is cheap enough.

  #19  
Old December 15th 11, 04:30 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Brian Thorn[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,266
Default NASA, SpaceX Set First Dragon Launch To ISS

On Thu, 15 Dec 2011 05:05:03 -0800 (PST), bob haller
wrote:

Theres no reason a stratlauncher couldnt be upscaled, to say 4 times
its planned size for even bigger heavier payloads.....


Earth to Bob, come in Bob...

Four times its current (planned) size would be a 1,500 foot wingspan.

Think about that for a while. A wingspan longer than the USS Nimitz or
longer than the Empire State Building is tall.

You want to FLY that?

Brian
  #20  
Old December 15th 11, 05:40 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Greg \(Strider\) Moore
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 790
Default NASA, SpaceX Set First Dragon Launch To ISS

"Fred J. McCall" wrote in message
...

Brian Thorn wrote:

On Thu, 15 Dec 2011 05:05:03 -0800 (PST), bob haller
wrote:

Theres no reason a stratlauncher couldnt be upscaled, to say 4 times
its planned size for even bigger heavier payloads.....


Earth to Bob, come in Bob...

Four times its current (planned) size would be a 1,500 foot wingspan.

Think about that for a while. A wingspan longer than the USS Nimitz or
longer than the Empire State Building is tall.

You want to FLY that?


But can't you just paste 16 747s together?


Of course not. That's just plane (sic) silly.

You can't use paste. You need duct-tape!


--
Greg D. Moore President Green Mountain Software
http://www.greenms.com
Help honor our WWII Veterans: http://www.honorflight.org/
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.

 




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