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Satellites Across the Moon ?



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 14th 03, 08:20 AM
Zan Hecht
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Satellites Across the Moon ?

I know that birds can appear as black discs when they are out of focus in
the telescope. There was a S&T article a few years back about several turn
of the century observers who were convinced they had seen a planet inside
the orbit of mercury transit the sun, but who had in fact just seen out of
focus birds.

"David Nakamoto" wrote in message
...
I was out at a "public star party" last Saturday (July 12), using my 127mm
f/12 Mak
and a Meade electronic eyepiece on the Moon. Around 9pm until 11pm,
several
of us saw dark objects cross the Moon. They were around 1/4 to 1/2 the

size
of
the crater Copernicus, and did not have the shape of airplanes, birds,

bats,
etc.
The first four were black disks, were moving at a constant velocity and
direction,
and were not visible to the unaided eye once they left the face of the

Moon.
The fifth one consisted of three such objects of different sizes, flying

in
formation.
They went by too fast for us to determine if they were connected

physically.
The last one consisted of a dark disk with a rectangular object attached

to
one
side.

I thought this last one might have been TOPEX/Poseidon, but I checked and
that
satellite was not scheduled to cross the lunar disk that night during the
time we were
looking for it, but I was only using Starry Night Pro to check for
candidates.

Since I used the crater Copernicus to check some of the object's apparent
sizes,
and assuming a low earth orbit, I did the calculations and figured that a
satellite
COULD be seen as a shape at the magnifications I was viewing at. The

Field
of View
was only big enough to barely place Copernicus and I believe Kepler.

Unfortunately, I didn't have a recorder on hand to record the images.

Has anyone else observed this phenomenon ? Thanks !


----------------------------------------------------------------------
Never be afraid of trying something new for the love of it.
Remember... amateurs built the Ark.
Professionals built the Titanic!


----------------------------------------------------------------------





  #2  
Old July 14th 03, 10:15 AM
LarryG
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Satellites Across the Moon ?

"David Nakamoto" wrote in message
...
I was out at a "public star party" last Saturday (July 12), using my 127mm
f/12 Mak
and a Meade electronic eyepiece on the Moon. Around 9pm until 11pm,
several
of us saw dark objects cross the Moon. They were around 1/4 to 1/2 the

size
of
the crater Copernicus, and did not have the shape of airplanes, birds,

bats,
etc.
The first four were black disks, were moving at a constant velocity and
direction,
and were not visible to the unaided eye once they left the face of the

Moon.
The fifth one consisted of three such objects of different sizes, flying

in
formation.
They went by too fast for us to determine if they were connected

physically.
The last one consisted of a dark disk with a rectangular object attached

to
one
side.

I thought this last one might have been TOPEX/Poseidon, but I checked and
that
satellite was not scheduled to cross the lunar disk that night during the
time we were
looking for it, but I was only using Starry Night Pro to check for
candidates.

Since I used the crater Copernicus to check some of the object's apparent
sizes,
and assuming a low earth orbit, I did the calculations and figured that a
satellite
COULD be seen as a shape at the magnifications I was viewing at. The

Field
of View
was only big enough to barely place Copernicus and I believe Kepler.

Unfortunately, I didn't have a recorder on hand to record the images.

Has anyone else observed this phenomenon ? Thanks !



I've seen circular objects of about the size you describe cross the face
of the Moon and the Sun. I did some preliminary calculations to convince
me that they were unlikely to be satellites or near-Earth objects. However,
without knowing the other particulars of your observation, it is hard to say
we were seeing essentially the same things.

Size, speed, elevation and direction are all important in doing a real
assessment
of the possible candidates. But since this phenomenon is relatively rare,
these
are easily confused if not forgotten altogether at the time.

While I doubt that you saw "birds out of focus" you may have seen helium
filled party balloons released to the winds, or even the jet stream.

Cheers,
Larry G.


  #3  
Old July 14th 03, 10:46 AM
Paul Schlyter
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Satellites Across the Moon ?

In article ,
LarryG wrote:
"David Nakamoto" wrote in message
.. .
I was out at a "public star party" last Saturday (July 12), using my 127mm
f/12 Mak
and a Meade electronic eyepiece on the Moon. Around 9pm until 11pm,
several
of us saw dark objects cross the Moon. They were around 1/4 to 1/2 the

size
of
the crater Copernicus, and did not have the shape of airplanes, birds,

bats,
etc.
The first four were black disks, were moving at a constant velocity and
direction,
and were not visible to the unaided eye once they left the face of the

Moon.
The fifth one consisted of three such objects of different sizes, flying

in
formation.
They went by too fast for us to determine if they were connected

physically.
The last one consisted of a dark disk with a rectangular object attached

to
one
side.

I thought this last one might have been TOPEX/Poseidon, but I checked and
that
satellite was not scheduled to cross the lunar disk that night during the
time we were
looking for it, but I was only using Starry Night Pro to check for
candidates.

Since I used the crater Copernicus to check some of the object's apparent
sizes,
and assuming a low earth orbit, I did the calculations and figured that a
satellite
COULD be seen as a shape at the magnifications I was viewing at. The

Field
of View
was only big enough to barely place Copernicus and I believe Kepler.

Unfortunately, I didn't have a recorder on hand to record the images.

Has anyone else observed this phenomenon ? Thanks !



I've seen circular objects of about the size you describe cross the face
of the Moon and the Sun. I did some preliminary calculations to convince
me that they were unlikely to be satellites or near-Earth objects. However,
without knowing the other particulars of your observation, it is hard to say
we were seeing essentially the same things.

Size, speed, elevation and direction are all important in doing a real
assessment
of the possible candidates. But since this phenomenon is relatively rare,
these
are easily confused if not forgotten altogether at the time.

While I doubt that you saw "birds out of focus" you may have seen helium
filled party balloons released to the winds, or even the jet stream.


Anotehr explanation which is more likelo IMO is that he saw distant
helium weather baloons -- they're released regularly from many places
ih the world, and they reach high altitudes -- much higher than party
baloons.





--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Schlyter, Grev Turegatan 40, SE-114 38 Stockholm, SWEDEN
e-mail: pausch at stockholm dot bostream dot se
WWW: http://www.stjarnhimlen.se/
http://home.tiscali.se/pausch/
  #4  
Old July 14th 03, 12:06 PM
Vernon
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Satellites Across the Moon ?

"Paul Schlyter" wrote in message
...

Anotehr explanation which is more likelo IMO is that he saw distant
helium weather baloons -- they're released regularly from many places
ih the world, and they reach high altitudes -- much higher than party
baloons.


Five weather balloons crossing the Moon together?

Rather unlikely I think.



  #5  
Old July 14th 03, 01:47 PM
Matthew B. Ota
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Satellites Across the Moon ?

I was at the Pasadena Colorado Street Bridge Party last Saturday, doing a TIE
outreach. One of my colleagues saw something cross in front of the Moon with a
Celestron Utima 8" SCT, but I did not record the time or any other particulars.
He said it was a bat.
I have seen satellite transits in front of the Moon before on other occasions,
but it is rare for me as I seldom observe the Moon with my equipment.

--------------------------------------------------------------
Matthew B. Ota
Orange County Astronomers Astroimagers SIG
http://www.ocastronomers.org/
Telescopes In Education (TIE) telescope operator
http://tie.jpl.nasa.gov/tie/index.html
Jet Propulsion Laboratory Saturn Observation Campaign
http://soc.jpl.nasa.gov/index.cfm
--------------------------------------------------------------

David Nakamoto wrote:

I was out at a "public star party" last Saturday (July 12), using my 127mm
f/12 Mak
and a Meade electronic eyepiece on the Moon. Around 9pm until 11pm,
several
of us saw dark objects cross the Moon. They were around 1/4 to 1/2 the size
of
the crater Copernicus, and did not have the shape of airplanes, birds, bats,
etc.
The first four were black disks, were moving at a constant velocity and
direction,
and were not visible to the unaided eye once they left the face of the Moon.
The fifth one consisted of three such objects of different sizes, flying in
formation.
They went by too fast for us to determine if they were connected physically.
The last one consisted of a dark disk with a rectangular object attached to
one
side.

I thought this last one might have been TOPEX/Poseidon, but I checked and
that
satellite was not scheduled to cross the lunar disk that night during the
time we were
looking for it, but I was only using Starry Night Pro to check for
candidates.

Since I used the crater Copernicus to check some of the object's apparent
sizes,
and assuming a low earth orbit, I did the calculations and figured that a
satellite
COULD be seen as a shape at the magnifications I was viewing at. The Field
of View
was only big enough to barely place Copernicus and I believe Kepler.

Unfortunately, I didn't have a recorder on hand to record the images.

Has anyone else observed this phenomenon ? Thanks !

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Never be afraid of trying something new for the love of it.
Remember... amateurs built the Ark.
Professionals built the Titanic!


----------------------------------------------------------------------







  #6  
Old July 14th 03, 07:43 PM
David Nakamoto
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Satellites Across the Moon ?

I don't know that these were birds; constant velocity and direction, no
movement
or change of shape was discerned. Same for it being planes or bats.

Plus, one was definitely a satellite; so distinct was the shape that two of
us, who
used to work for JPL, thought it was TOPEX/Poseidon; that's how distinctive
the
shape was.

No, at this stage, I'm not convinced it was birds.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Never be afraid of trying something new for the love of it.
Remember... amateurs built the Ark.
Professionals built the Titanic!


----------------------------------------------------------------------

"Zan Hecht" wrote in message
news
I know that birds can appear as black discs when they are out of focus in
the telescope. There was a S&T article a few years back about several

turn
of the century observers who were convinced they had seen a planet inside
the orbit of mercury transit the sun, but who had in fact just seen out of
focus birds.

"David Nakamoto" wrote in message
...
I was out at a "public star party" last Saturday (July 12), using my

127mm
f/12 Mak
and a Meade electronic eyepiece on the Moon. Around 9pm until 11pm,
several
of us saw dark objects cross the Moon. They were around 1/4 to 1/2 the

size
of
the crater Copernicus, and did not have the shape of airplanes, birds,

bats,
etc.
The first four were black disks, were moving at a constant velocity and
direction,
and were not visible to the unaided eye once they left the face of the

Moon.
The fifth one consisted of three such objects of different sizes, flying

in
formation.
They went by too fast for us to determine if they were connected

physically.
The last one consisted of a dark disk with a rectangular object attached

to
one
side.

I thought this last one might have been TOPEX/Poseidon, but I checked

and
that
satellite was not scheduled to cross the lunar disk that night during

the
time we were
looking for it, but I was only using Starry Night Pro to check for
candidates.

Since I used the crater Copernicus to check some of the object's

apparent
sizes,
and assuming a low earth orbit, I did the calculations and figured that

a
satellite
COULD be seen as a shape at the magnifications I was viewing at. The

Field
of View
was only big enough to barely place Copernicus and I believe Kepler.

Unfortunately, I didn't have a recorder on hand to record the images.

Has anyone else observed this phenomenon ? Thanks !



  #7  
Old July 14th 03, 07:50 PM
David Nakamoto
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Satellites Across the Moon ?

"Paul Schlyter" wrote in message
...
In article ,
LarryG wrote:
"David Nakamoto" wrote in message
.. .
I was out at a "public star party" last Saturday (July 12), using my

127mm
f/12 Mak
and a Meade electronic eyepiece on the Moon. Around 9pm until 11pm,
several
of us saw dark objects cross the Moon. They were around 1/4 to 1/2 the

size
of
the crater Copernicus, and did not have the shape of airplanes, birds,

bats,
etc.
The first four were black disks, were moving at a constant velocity and
direction,
and were not visible to the unaided eye once they left the face of the

Moon.
The fifth one consisted of three such objects of different sizes,

flying
in
formation.
They went by too fast for us to determine if they were connected

physically.
The last one consisted of a dark disk with a rectangular object

attached
to
one
side.

Has anyone else observed this phenomenon ? Thanks !



Anotehr explanation which is more likelo IMO is that he saw distant
helium weather baloons -- they're released regularly from many places
ih the world, and they reach high altitudes -- much higher than party
baloons.


But six crossing the Moon in a two hour period, one sighting with three
flying
in formation, and the last with a large (larger than the black disk by about
five
times the diameter of the disk) rectangular object attached?

These last two don't sound like weather balloons to me. A simple
calculation
using the assumed distance (150 miles) angular size (10 to 25 arc-seconds)
and the tangent function gives a size of around 10 yards or less. This
sounds
reasonable for a large telecommunications satellite or reconnaissance one.


  #8  
Old July 14th 03, 07:59 PM
David Nakamoto
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Satellites Across the Moon ?

Hi Florian,

I checked out that possibility, and found that it had done so, but it was
during late twilight and
we probably missed that passage; it also looked like it missed the Moon by a
wide margin.
Probably might have seen it's starlike image if we'd known it was going to
cross the sky. Later
it made another pass, but missed the Moon by a wider margin.

-- Dave

--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Never be afraid of trying something new for the love of it.
Remember... amateurs built the Ark.
Professionals built the Titanic!


----------------------------------------------------------------------

"Florian" wrote in message
news The Hubble Space Telescope is making nice evening passes these days. I
watched a pretty pass last night from Palm Springs. Now that i think of it
HST was heading pretty much toward the full moon but i didn't follow it that
far in the sky to see if it actually crossed the moon. ;-/

-Florian
Stargazing.com


  #9  
Old July 14th 03, 08:22 PM
David Nakamoto
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Satellites Across the Moon ?

"Paul Schlyter" wrote in message
...
In article , Vernon wrote:

"Paul Schlyter" wrote in message
...

Another explanation which is more likelo IMO is that he saw distant
helium weather baloons -- they're released regularly from many places
ih the world, and they reach high altitudes -- much higher than party
baloons.


Five weather balloons crossing the Moon together?

Rather unlikely I think.


OK, I missed that part. And I agree with you: 5 weather baloons
together are unlikely. In that case, party baloons are more likely.


There's some confusion here. I said that the first four sightings were
single
black disk objects crossing the Moon. The fifth was three such objects of
slightly varying sizes flying in formation. The last was a disk on which
was
attached a large retangularly shaped object.

-- Dave


  #10  
Old July 15th 03, 07:34 AM
David Nakamoto
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Satellites Across the Moon ?

"Jskies187" wrote in message
...
This
sounds
reasonable for a large telecommunications satellite or reconnaissance one.


Reconnaissance?!

And Mars is nearing it's closest approach in thousands of years. Hmm......


T H AT ' S I T ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !

The Martians are C O M I N G ! ! ! ! ! !

And the X-Files have been cancelled, so we don't have Muldar and Scully to
save us !

:-)


 




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