Oldest Open Clusters

Dear Group,

I have located a paper from Astronomy & Astrophysics which identified
some of the oldest open clusters in our galaxy. I was wondering if
someone knows of a source which is after 2004 and which would be more
recent (not that I am complaining that 2004 is outdated but just in case
there is something more recent which I could not locate).

For anyone interested as to the 2004 source, enjoy:
http://www.mpa-garching.mpg.de/~weiss/aa_414_163.pdf ..... having
already imaged M67 and NGC 188, I would like to pursue these older
clusters further with a web page dedicated to them and which is already
under construction.

Thanks in advance!

Anthony.

Vossinakis Andreas wrote:
Anthony check this
http://www.univie.ac.at/webda/descri...#cluster_level

Andrea, thanks for the link .... this is a VERY good source!

Anthony.


Vossinakis Andreas
Thessaloniki, Greece

On Feb 26, 8:21 am, Anthony Ayiomamitis
wrote:
Vossinakis Andreas wrote:
Anthony check this
http://www.univie.ac.at/webda/descri...#cluster_level

Andrea, thanks for the link .... this is a VERY good source!

Anthony.





Vossinakis Andreas
Thessaloniki, Greece- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Anthony,

The oldest cluster (by spectrometry) is Berkely 17 in
Auriga about 05 21 + 30 40, and is currently observable.

It is not an overwhelming object but is rather ominous
when you consider that it checks out between 10 and 13
billion years in age.

Ben
90.126 n 35.539

Ben wrote:
On Feb 26, 8:21 am, Anthony Ayiomamitis
wrote:

Vossinakis Andreas wrote:

Anthony check this
http://www.univie.ac.at/webda/descri...#cluster_level

Andrea, thanks for the link .... this is a VERY good source!

Anthony.






Vossinakis Andreas
Thessaloniki, Greece- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Anthony,

Hi Ben,


The oldest cluster (by spectrometry) is Berkely 17 in
Auriga about 05 21 + 30 40, and is currently observable.

This cluster is on my "do now, ASAP" list ... please look for a result
with the first available opportunity on my part (following the eclipse
later this week so as not to have the lunar glare when imaging).


It is not an overwhelming object but is rather ominous
when you consider that it checks out between 10 and 13
billion years in age.

I have done quite a bit of research the past few days in relation to
this project and along the way I have read that it is a toss-up between
Berkeley 17 and NGC 6791 in Lyra. Are you aware of any "definitive"
study between the two or are we stuck with the ambiguity? Berkeley 17
has been estimated to be 10.06 or 10.08 billion years old (depending on
source) whereas NGC 6791 has estimates as high as 10.20 billion yrs old.

Anthony.


Ben
90.126 n 35.539

Anthony,

I don't think a definitive study on cluster ages will
ever be possible. We will just have to content ourselves
with those analogs ( analogia = proportions) furnished
by spectography. If we could trace them back they
would all vasish into primordial "knots" of gas and dust
and defining the instants of origin would remain speculative.

I have a lot of trouble seeing 6791 from my observation
site. I have to wait untill it gets really high (ca. 70 deg)
before I can make it out at all.

Ben

Anthony check this
http://www.univie.ac.at/webda/descri...#cluster_level

Vossinakis Andreas
Thessaloniki, Greece

On Feb 26, 5:53 am, Anthony Ayiomamitis
wrote:
I was wondering if someone knows of a source which is after 2004
and which would be more recent (not that I am complaining that 2004 is
outdated but just in case there is something more recent which I could not
locate).

Anthony,

Looking at Salaris's paper in NASA/ADS:

http://adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/np...?bibcode=2004A

There are 27 articles that cite the Salaris article. Two those in
late 2004 look interesting. I would try the NASA/ADS link and the
"Citations to the Article" link. See if anything looks interesting.

The following also may be of interest. The following is a plot of 186
OC ages from my personal DSO observing list.

http://members.csolutions.net/fisher...ClAgeChart.JPG

The galactic year, the time it takes the Sun to complete one
revolution around the Milky Way's core, is approx. 220 million years
or 8.34 log10(years). Half of all open clusters disperse in just under
one galactic year (8.13 log10(years) or 218 million years) - ripped
apart by tidal forces. The third quartile of open clusters disperses
in just under two galactic years (8.6 log10(years) or about 430
million years).

Popular old clusters and moving groups that have survived more than
two galactic years and into the fourth quartile include M044 (Beehive
Cluster), M048, M067, M073, M093, the Hyades Moving Group, and the
Coma Berenices Star Cluster.

The youngest clusters in my list are aged around 6.7 log10(years) or
approx. 5 million years old. The youngest three are the Tau CMa
Cluster a.k.a. the Northern Jewel Box (NGC2362, Caldwell 64); NGC1980
surrounding iot Orion in the Orion stellar nursery region; and,
NGC2239, a star cluster associated with the Rosetta Nebula stellar
nursery in Mon.

Most of the OC ages were assigned to OC's in my master DSO observing
list are from tables in Allen's Astrophysical Quantities (2000).

- Canopus56

On Feb 27, 5:25 pm, "canopus56" wrote:
Looking at Salaris's paper in NASA/ADS:
http://adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/np...?bibcode=2004A

S/b -

http://adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/np...6A...414..163S

- C

On Feb 26, 10:43 am, Anthony Ayiomamitis
wrote:
Are you aware of any "definitive"
study between the two or are we stuck with the ambiguity? Berkeley 17
has been estimated to be 10.06 or 10.08 billion years old (depending on
source) whereas NGC 6791 has estimates as high as 10.20 billion yrs old.

Looking at the follow-up articles to Salaris, there is:

Bragaglia, A. et al. 2006. BVI photometry of the very old open cluster
Berkeley 17
http://adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/np...NRAS.368.1971B

"We have obtained BVI CCD imaging of Berkeley 17, an anticentre open
cluster that competes with NGC 6791 as the oldest known open cluster."

Krusberg, Z.A.C.; Chaboyer, B. 2006. UBVI CCD Photometry of the Old
Open Cluster Berkeley 17.
http://adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/np...J....131.1565K

"Berkeley 17 and NGC 6791 are the oldest open clusters, with ages of
10 Gyr."

- Canopus56

On Feb 26, 10:43 am, Anthony Ayiomamitis
wrote:
Are you aware of any "definitive"
study between the two or are we stuck with the ambiguity? Berkeley 17
has been estimated to be 10.06 or 10.08 billion years old (depending on
source) whereas NGC 6791 has estimates as high as 10.20 billion yrs old.

Looking at the follow-up articles to Salaris, there is:

Bragaglia, A. et al. 2006. BVI photometry of the very old open cluster
Berkeley 17
http://adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/np...NRAS.368.1971B

"We have obtained BVI CCD imaging of Berkeley 17, an anticentre open
cluster that competes with NGC 6791 as the oldest known open cluster."

Krusberg, Z.A.C.; Chaboyer, B. 2006. UBVI CCD Photometry of the Old
Open Cluster Berkeley 17.
http://adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/np...J....131.1565K

"Berkeley 17 and NGC 6791 are the oldest open clusters, with ages of
10 Gyr."

- Canopus56