Ready to buy a Orion XT4.5 dob telescope, but a couple of questions

Thanks to everyone for all of the posts that help me get this far!

After reading for days, I have decided to buy a Orion SkyQuest XT4.5
Dobsonian. This is for my family and my 8 year old daughter who has
asked for a telescope for over a year now. I also have a 10 and 14
year old who will enjoy it. It was in my $300 budget (with
accessories) and the reviews have been pretty good for an entry level
scope.
The questions I have a
1. Orion sells a $30 Beginning Stargazer's Toolkit that I plan to buy
that has some star charts and a book. Is there any one other book I
should get?
2. The more expensive DOBs (XT6 or XT8) recommend getting a collimator
laser alignment gadget for doing collimation. I know the basic idea is
to align the mirrors but I need to know if I need a tool to do this
with the XT4.5? How often does someone need to do this alignment? And
do I need this laser tool to do it correctly. I hesitate to buy a $79
tool for a $200 scope.
3. Will a barlow lens help this scope be much better?
4. I think this scope will see rings on saturn and moons around
jupiter which the kids will think are cool. Will this scope see any
deep space objects worth seeing?
I appreciate any help on the above questions.
Sheila

Sheila wrote:

snip
2. The more expensive DOBs (XT6 or XT8) recommend getting a collimator
laser alignment gadget for doing collimation. I know the basic idea is
to align the mirrors but I need to know if I need a tool to do this
with the XT4.5? How often does someone need to do this alignment? And
do I need this laser tool to do it correctly. I hesitate to buy a $79
tool for a $200 scope.
unsnip

Forget the laser collimator. Get Orion's Collimating Eyepiece (at about
$34.95) and you'll be set. The process of collimation is easily mastered
and takes no more than a few minutes to complete (even if you are new at
it). The collimating eyepiece is not a a traditional optical eyepiece as
you may think of one. . .but I will not try to describe here what the
catalogue describes adequately. Once initially collimated, you'll find only
infrequent adjustments necessary assuming you treat the scope as it should
be. . .gently.

I don't think you could do much better for a first instrument for an 8 year
old.


Hope you get some time at the eyepiece,


Martin

"Sheila" wrote in message
om...
Thanks to everyone for all of the posts that help me get this far!

After reading for days, I have decided to buy a Orion SkyQuest XT4.5
Dobsonian. This is for my family and my 8 year old daughter who has
asked for a telescope for over a year now. I also have a 10 and 14
year old who will enjoy it. It was in my $300 budget (with
accessories) and the reviews have been pretty good for an entry level
scope.
The questions I have a
1. Orion sells a $30 Beginning Stargazer's Toolkit that I plan to buy
that has some star charts and a book. Is there any one other book I
should get?
2. The more expensive DOBs (XT6 or XT8) recommend getting a collimator
laser alignment gadget for doing collimation. I know the basic idea is
to align the mirrors but I need to know if I need a tool to do this
with the XT4.5? How often does someone need to do this alignment? And
do I need this laser tool to do it correctly. I hesitate to buy a $79
tool for a $200 scope.
3. Will a barlow lens help this scope be much better?
4. I think this scope will see rings on saturn and moons around
jupiter which the kids will think are cool. Will this scope see any
deep space objects worth seeing?
I appreciate any help on the above questions.
Sheila

Sheila,

My first telescope was the XT4.5 and I still have it. I also have an XT10.
I think the XT4.5 is a fantastic little dob that can show you many wonderful
sights. I will try to answer your questions in turn.

1. Orion sells a $30 Beginning Stargazer's Toolkit that I plan to buy
that has some star charts and a book. Is there any one other book I
should get?

I received the Beginning Stargazer's Tool Kit as a free addition when I
ordered my XT4.5. I still use the red led flashlight and the planisphere.
They are worthy accessories. ut if you buy them seperately, they'll run ya
$27, so you may as well spring for the $32.95. The Discover the Stars book
is an interesting read, if nothing else.

Additional books that I added are Turn Left at Orion and Nigh****ch. I
bought both from Orion. If I had to choose one, I'd get Tuen Left at Orion.
It has some excellent beginner star hopping info in there.

2. The more expensive DOBs (XT6 or XT8) recommend getting a collimator
laser alignment gadget for doing collimation. I know the basic idea is
to align the mirrors but I need to know if I need a tool to do this
with the XT4.5? How often does someone need to do this alignment? And
do I need this laser tool to do it correctly. I hesitate to buy a $79
tool for a $200 scope.

I never used a laser in my XT4.5. It's convenient, but certainly not
required. At f/8, the XT4.5 is very forgining with respect to collimation.
I did all my collimation with the included cap using the Orion instructions.
Once I got my laser for the XT10, I checked the collimation on the XT4.5 and
it was close enough for an f/8 scope. The XT4.5 will hold collimation very
well. You can check it every time before you observe but you probably won't
adjust it every time. Collimation can be scary at first, but it really is
quite simple to esecute. It only took me 6 months to figure out that I
didn't need to be intimidated by it at all. Joining a local club and asking
the friendly folks there to help you out is invaluable.

3. Will a barlow lens help this scope be much better?

The barlow will add flexibility to the included eyepieces, but not a lot in
the case of the XT4.5. The included 25mm and 10mm plossls will give you 36x
and 91x magnification. These are nice mags for the XT 4.5. Adding a barlow
will add 72x and 182x. 72x is another nice addition, but 182x will be
pushing the limits of the XT4.5. The sweet spot for the XT4.5 is around
160x. 182x will only be usable on the very best of evenings. If you do get
a barlow, get the shorty plus or celestron ultima or equivalent. The
regular shorty barlow from Orion is a remarkably bad piece of optics (I had
one). Your next ep selection might be a 13-15mm. That will barlow nicely
to 130x or so, which is a nice fit.

4. I think this scope will see rings on saturn and moons around
jupiter which the kids will think are cool. Will this scope see any
deep space objects worth seeing?

The first thing I ever saw through a telescope (the XT4.5) was the moon.
The next was Saturn. Not only will you see the rings of Saturn, you will
see the cassini division and possibly some banding on the planet (on very
good nights). 3 or more moons should also be visible. Mars will show you
the south polar cap and some nice dark mare features. Jupiter will reveal
at least 2 bands and maybe a bit more on very good nights. You will also
get to see all 4 moons around Jupiter. For deepsky, Andromeda will be a
wonderful sight. Although mostly a smudge, it will be amazing to realize it
is another galaxy. The Orion nebula will amaze you and you will easily see
4 stars in the trapezium. Globular clusters will be a nice sight. If your
skies are dark, you can go after some of the more popular planetary nebulae.
These will be more in the smudge category, but it is remarkable to think
what it is that smudge represents. And don't forget the double stars out
there. These went overlooked by me for a long while until I began looking
at them. Some of them are truely beautiful.

Now, I'm going to do the standard thing and recommend a more expensive
telescope, but only by $49. Take a look at the 6" dob from Hardin:

http://www.hardinoptical.com/dsh6.html

This is the same telescope as the XT6 prior to the Intelliscope line. A
truely fantastic beginner telescope. You will get your money's worth out of
that extra 1.5" of mirror.

Another recommendation I will make is to visit the Skyquest telescope Yahoo
group:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/skyquest-telescopes/

There are many experienced and inexperienced folks that are very friendly
and helpful.

Let us know what you get and please share your families new experiences with
us. The most fun I have is when I'm sharing the view with the kids in the
neighborhood.

Clear skies,

Tom

Thanks for the insight. I plan to order one for my sone and his young
children.

Other comments below.

Phil

3. Will a barlow lens help this scope be much better?


The barlow will add flexibility to the included eyepieces, but not a lot in
the case of the XT4.5.

A plus of the Barlow is that the 25 mm plus Barlow may give much better
eye relief than the 10 mm EP.



4. I think this scope will see rings on saturn and moons around
jupiter which the kids will think are cool. Will this scope see any
deep space objects worth seeing?


The first thing I ever saw through a telescope (the XT4.5) was the moon.
The next was Saturn. Not only will you see the rings of Saturn, you will
see the cassini division and possibly some banding on the planet (on very
good nights). 3 or more moons should also be visible. Mars will show you
the south polar cap and some nice dark mare features. Jupiter will reveal
at least 2 bands and maybe a bit more on very good nights. You will also
get to see all 4 moons around Jupiter. For deepsky, Andromeda will be a
wonderful sight. Although mostly a smudge, it will be amazing to realize it
is another galaxy. The Orion nebula will amaze you and you will easily see
4 stars in the trapezium. Globular clusters will be a nice sight. If your
skies are dark, you can go after some of the more popular planetary nebulae.
These will be more in the smudge category, but it is remarkable to think
what it is that smudge represents. And don't forget the double stars out
there. These went overlooked by me for a long while until I began looking
at them. Some of them are truely beautiful.

Now, I'm going to do the standard thing and recommend a more expensive
telescope, but only by $49. Take a look at the 6" dob from Hardin:

http://www.hardinoptical.com/dsh6.html

Good advice: I will look into it.

Phil

I purchased an Orion XT4.5 about 6 months ago and I have been very
pleased with it. Here are my thoughts regarding your questions.

1. Orion sells a $30 Beginning Stargazer's Toolkit that I plan to buy
that has some star charts and a book. Is there any one other book I
should get?

I think the $30 kit is probably a good deal. You will definitely want
to have a planisphere and a red LED flashlight. The moon map will also
be handy. I recently completed the Astronomical League Lunar Club
observing program
(http://www.astroleague.org/al/obsclu...ar/lunar1.html),
and a good moon map would have been very useful. I highly recommend
following this program for beginners because it will help you to learn
about your scope, tracking things down on maps, and it will give you
something to do when the moon is out ruining your views of everything
else. And it's free.
I will also recommend "Turn Left at Orion" as a starter book. I have
had a great time reading the desciptions of objects and hunting them
down in my scope. The finder charts were not detailed enough for me,
however, and I afterwards purchased the "Sky Atlas 2000 Deluxe" spiral
bound edition. If you have difficulty finding things in "Turn Left", I
would suggest getting something like Sky Atlas 2000. "Turn Left" is nice
because it introduces you to a wide variety of objects - galaxies,
clusters, nebulae, double stars, etc. It will give you a feel for what
is out there to be looked at.

2. The more expensive DOBs (XT6 or XT8) recommend getting a collimator
laser alignment gadget for doing collimation. I know the basic idea is
to align the mirrors but I need to know if I need a tool to do this
with the XT4.5? How often does someone need to do this alignment? And
do I need this laser tool to do it correctly. I hesitate to buy a $79
tool for a $200 scope.

The reviews I read before purchasing my scope said that it kept its
collimation well, and my experience agrees with that. I regularly check
the collimation in my scope and have never yet had to fix it in 6 months
of use! I usually only use it in my front yard (I am fortunate enough to
live in a place with only moderate light pollution), but I have also
taken it into the mountains on bumpy dirt roads at least 5 times.

3. Will a barlow lens help this scope be much better?

Yes! On good seeing nights the barlow will show you much more detail on
the planets. I couldn't see the Cassini division without the barlow in
place, but then I didn't get my scope until Saturn was lower on the
horizon. I have been extremely happy with the larger views of the moon
and planets with my barlow. The only drawback to the barlow is that at
high magnification the objects drift out of the field of view rather
quickly. This is not so much of a concern for me, but when other people
(not familiar with telescopes) are looking in my scope I have to keep
checking it to make sure the item has not left the field of view. Your
kids, however, should not have any problem with this.

4. I think this scope will see rings on saturn and moons around
jupiter which the kids will think are cool. Will this scope see any
deep space objects worth seeing?

Yes! As has been mentioned by other posters, the Andromeda galaxy is
beautiful in this scope. Other galaxies are mostly dim smudges. Most
of the larger globular clusters are very pretty also, and you will be
able to see the basic shapes of most nebulae (I have seen the Ring,
Swan, Orion, Dumbell, Owl, etc). The Orion nebula was particularly
nice. My favorite items, however, are the open star clusters at low
power.

I hope my personal experience with this scope will be helpful to you.
If you have specific questions feel free to post or email me.

Aaron Lambert