How cool is VL2

In article ,
The Ghost In The Machine wrote:

In sci.physics, Phineas T Puddleduck

wrote
on Mon, 16 Apr 2007 01:33:44 +0100
:
In article ,
The Ghost In The Machine wrote:

Or perhaps it's something else. I'd have to look. It's
interesting either way, but apparently not lethal; Buzz
Aldrin after all survived long enough to punch someone
in the nose after said someone asked a stupid question,
many years later. ;-)


My hero!


And here's your hero in action, apparently. ;-)

http://www.poetv.com/video.php?vid=3844

Can't say I blame him.


They don't make em like that anymore.

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In sci.physics, Odysseus

wrote
on Mon, 16 Apr 2007 02:34:46 GMT
:
In article ,
The Ghost In The Machine wrote:

snip

If S8 is a compound, not an element, what is its chemical composition?

S_8 is the most usual allotrope of elemental sulphur (No. 16 -- the
official IUPAC spelling is the American "sulfur"), yellow in colour, as
in the common household/garden product "flowers of sulphur". The
molecule is a coronate (zig-zaggy) ring of eight sulphur atoms, and
typically makes orthorhombic crystals.

Conditions on Venus seem rather unsuitable for S_8 to persist. It melts
at only 115°C (boiling at 445°C) under terrestrial conditions, and in
the molten state the rings tend to open, forming polymeric S_n chains. I
don't know exactly what effects the great atmospheric pressures would
have on its behaviour, though. The melting point would be somewhat
higher, because the liquid is 5-10% less dense than the solid, but I
doubt it would become high enough for the substance to remain solid.
FWIW sulphur's triple point is at over twice the pressure, and nearly
twice the temperature, of Venus's surface.


Brad's claim is that there's a band of S8 some tens of kms above the
Venusian surface. It is vaguely possible these are similar to ice
crystals, and there is a mention of haze in

http://www.springerlink.com/content/q165ljt76p368268/

Truly weird stuff, though, either way...and probably not all that
healthy for those of us spawned from terra firma. :-)

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In sci.physics, TheBookman

wrote
on Sun, 15 Apr 2007 21:24:12 -0500
:
On Sun, 15 Apr 2007 18:41:12 -0600, Art Deco wrote:

The Ghost In The Machine wrote:

In sci.physics, Art Deco

wrote
on Sun, 15 Apr 2007 17:15:47 -0600
:
The Ghost In The Machine wrote:

In sci.physics, Art Deco

wrote
on Sun, 15 Apr 2007 15:12:26 -0600
:
Brad Guth wrote:

plus that other one of their not
having to deal with that pesky gamma and Xray dosage of a moon

How does the Moon generate these high-energy photons, Brad?


EGRET in fact shows that gamma ray radiation on the Moon is higher than
the Sun's.

http://www.aas.org/publications/baas...s/S025002.html

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap970210.html

Granted, this doesn't answer how, but it might answer what.

It's not clear to me how many sieverts or grays this would be.

That's pretty interesting. Still it doesn't support Guth's assertion
that humans would be DOA as soon as they got anywhere near the Moon.
Also, the return of 36 humans from lunar orbit in good health seals the
issue.


Hmm...was it that many? I count 21 but don't know how many missions
played "sling around the moon" before Apollo 11.

There were nine total Apollo missions that encountered the Moon:

8, 10-17

13 only did a sling-around, of course, but it was still within a few
miles of the surface.

Did al your contact with teh Guthball affect your math skillz?
IIRC, Apollo missions had a crew of three.

I counted 11-17 and missed two. That makes for 27 humans that got near
to the moon, and 12 that actually set foot thereon.



But you're right; this doesn't come close to supporting BG's
assertion.

Yup.

Yup.

ESL!




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#191,
GNU and improved.

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Phineas T Puddleduck wrote:
In article ,
The Ghost In The Machine wrote:

In sci.physics, Phineas T Puddleduck

wrote
on Mon, 16 Apr 2007 01:33:44 +0100
:
In article ,
The Ghost In The Machine wrote:

Or perhaps it's something else. I'd have to look. It's
interesting either way, but apparently not lethal; Buzz
Aldrin after all survived long enough to punch someone
in the nose after said someone asked a stupid question,
many years later. ;-)

My hero!

And here's your hero in action, apparently. ;-)

http://www.poetv.com/video.php?vid=3844

Can't say I blame him.


They don't make em like that anymore.

How would a Gay Duck like you know that b1tch

On Apr 15, 7:57 pm, The Ghost In The Machine
wrote:

I was referring to the dirigible envelope, not my head.
In any event, a human under 9.3 MPa of pressure would be
in no danger AFAICT as long as there's sufficient oxygen
and no deleterious chemicals in the atmosphere.

Unfortunately, neither is the case, judging from the data
I've seen thus far -- though admittedly, I'm not sure how
accurate the data is. Presumably the Venerian probes did
some basic work regarding the atmospheric content for the
short amount of time they were on the ground, and that
data is now part of the Wikipedia entry for Venus.

Your Wikipedia koran about Venus sucks, and you keep talking about our
doing Venus in the buff. Are all such Jewish wizards of naysayism as
dumb and dumber and/or as dumbfounded past the point of no return, as
yourself?
-
Brad Guth

On Apr 15, 7:57 pm, The Ghost In The Machine
wrote:

As for breathing H2, unknown as to how that would react
with our lungs. Under ideal circumstances it would be a
bit like N2 -- generally inert. (However, N2 is soluble in
blood; look up "the bends", a painful malady that strikes
divers on occasion.)

It is only unknown or perhaps being kept as a need-to-know for the
likes of yourself and other naysayers.


Under less favorable circumstances it may make one drunk.
There are suggestions that ethyl alcohol's metabolism
in the liver includes H2 as a byproduct. This H2 is
metabolized as well, of course, or perhaps just passes
into solution.

Thanks, I didn't know that about some internal H2 benefits of drinking
beer.


And of course an H2/O2 mixture would be rather dangerous.
Fortunately, it is also generally nonexistent, at least
on Venus' surface; the biggest component thereon is
carbon dioxide, the next is nitrogen, according to
the standard measurements. Where you get your idea
that there's hydrogen on Venus, I for one don't know.
Presumably anyone stupid enough to stand on the Venusian
surface, assuming the heat and the oxygen problem were
solved, would succumb from the aforementioned nitrogen
narcosis and some bad effects from CO2 acidic poisoning --
an issue that almost doomed the Apollo 13 mission, but was
worked around by some clever engineering using duct tape,
the flight manual, and a spare filtration unit.

H2/O2 is a proven safe alternative to the N2/O2. Obviously you're not
quite smart enough to know such things. Keeping the O2 at less than
5% is of course the anti-exploding requirement, of which I see no need
of exceeding 1% O2. At such good pressure, there's much less need of
O2, and thus our getting rid of much less CO2 seems the case.

BTW; As with most everything in the universe, there's no shortage of
hydrogen, that is unless you happen to live within a black hole.
-
Brad Guth

On Apr 15, 7:34 pm, Odysseus wrote:
In article ,
The Ghost In The Machine wrote:

snip

If S8 is a compound, not an element, what is its chemical composition?

S_8 is the most usual allotrope of elemental sulphur (No. 16 -- the
official IUPAC spelling is the American "sulfur"), yellow in colour, as
in the common household/garden product "flowers of sulphur". The
molecule is a coronate (zig-zaggy) ring of eight sulphur atoms, and
typically makes orthorhombic crystals.

Conditions on Venus seem rather unsuitable for S_8 to persist. It melts
at only 115°C (boiling at 445°C) under terrestrial conditions, and in
the molten state the rings tend to open, forming polymeric S_n chains. I
don't know exactly what effects the great atmospheric pressures would
have on its behaviour, though. The melting point would be somewhat
higher, because the liquid is 5-10% less dense than the solid, but I
doubt it would become high enough for the substance to remain solid.
FWIW sulphur's triple point is at over twice the pressure, and nearly
twice the temperature, of Venus's surface.

--
Odysseus

Thanks much for the feedback, whereas it's likely the S_8 element as
being geothermally forced into the Venusian atmospheric environment
would likely end back on the surface as a dry and harmless powder.

It's suggested that a layer of S_8 exist within the lower clouds, as
an acidic formulation that's still in question as to the extent of
this complex cloud layer, of which might contain the bulk of the
atmospheric S_8.
-
Brad Guth

On Apr 15, 7:34 pm, The Ghost In The Machine
wrote:
In sci.physics,

wrote
on 15 Apr 2007 18:22:30 -0700
.com:


On Apr 15, 3:11 pm, The Ghost In The Machine
wrote:
In sci.physics,

wrote
on 15 Apr 2007 14:49:14 -0700
om:

On Apr 15, 1:47 pm, The Ghost In The Machine
wrote:

I for one see little point in putting anything in
VL2 except for the "Wow, we could go there" factor
(touristing). Admittedly, one might be able to
gather additional Venusian climatologic data. I'm
not sure how that would help Earth avoid global warming.

Your all-knowing naysayism is well noted, and fully expected.

Of course. But you're going to have to write a coherent proposal to the
venture capitalists at some point. What's the return on investment
here?

Interplanetary commerce is worth how much these days?

You tell us. A space flight to LEO is priced $20M on the open market,
judging from the press releases I've seen thus far. $100M wouldn't be
too out of line.


Are we talking mere billions per year, per month, or its potential
somewhere within the trillions upon trillions. It's actually a little
hard to tell where the payback could ever stop going up and up.

Businesses will readily tell you that income is gross revenue minus
costs of revenue minus overhead. I know that much MBA. :-)


A focus upon Venus would certaily cut our ongoing and continually
outgoing losses by a good hundred billion per year as is. Doesn't
that account for anything?

Losses? What losses? What are you talking about?

Are you suggesting that the Chinese will readily go onto Guthian
Spacelines to travel to VL2? If so, I'd like to see a smattering
of evidence -- if nothing else, a statement from a prominent Chinese
industrialist that expresses an interest to traveling to Venus.

-
Brad Guth

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- Show quoted text -

Your insurmountable naysayism is noted. So why exactly are you and so
many others of your silly kind even here?
-
Brad Guth

On Apr 15, 8:44 pm, The Ghost In The Machine
wrote:
In sci.physics, Odysseus

wrote
on Mon, 16 Apr 2007 02:34:46 GMT
:


In article ,
The Ghost In The Machine wrote:

snip

If S8 is a compound, not an element, what is its chemical composition?

S_8 is the most usual allotrope of elemental sulphur (No. 16 -- the
official IUPAC spelling is the American "sulfur"), yellow in colour, as
in the common household/garden product "flowers of sulphur". The
molecule is a coronate (zig-zaggy) ring of eight sulphur atoms, and
typically makes orthorhombic crystals.

Conditions on Venus seem rather unsuitable for S_8 to persist. It melts
at only 115°C (boiling at 445°C) under terrestrial conditions, and in
the molten state the rings tend to open, forming polymeric S_n chains. I
don't know exactly what effects the great atmospheric pressures would
have on its behaviour, though. The melting point would be somewhat
higher, because the liquid is 5-10% less dense than the solid, but I
doubt it would become high enough for the substance to remain solid.
FWIW sulphur's triple point is at over twice the pressure, and nearly
twice the temperature, of Venus's surface.

Brad's claim is that there's a band of S8 some tens of kms above the
Venusian surface. It is vaguely possible these are similar to ice
crystals, and there is a mention of haze in

http://www.springerlink.com/content/q165ljt76p368268/

Truly weird stuff, though, either way...and probably not all that
healthy for those of us spawned from terra firma. :-)

--
#191,
GNU and improved.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Venus is nothing but weird and/or strange on steroids. It's a fairly
newish planet because it's still so freaking hot on the inside.
Everything about Venus and of its robust atmosphere is essentially
proto-Earth worthy.

Most of everything we've been told about Venus is simply dead wrong.
Other than all of that, we should go there, and at least **** on a hot
rock. I'll even supply the ice cold beer.

If Venus is to much for any Ovglove jumpsuit, then a POOF city at VL2
seems the next best thing. From VL2 all sorts of fully robotic and
capably remote flown explorations are quite doable, and from VL2 we
could even nuke those existing locals or whatever visiting ETs with
another nifty shock and awe round of our diplomatic policy, that which
supposedly worked out so nicely on Iraq.
-
Brad Guth

On Apr 15, 8:44 pm, The Ghost In The Machine
wrote:
In sci.physics, Odysseus

wrote
on Mon, 16 Apr 2007 02:34:46 GMT
:


In article ,
The Ghost In The Machine wrote:

snip

If S8 is a compound, not an element, what is its chemical composition?

S_8 is the most usual allotrope of elemental sulphur (No. 16 -- the
official IUPAC spelling is the American "sulfur"), yellow in colour, as
in the common household/garden product "flowers of sulphur". The
molecule is a coronate (zig-zaggy) ring of eight sulphur atoms, and
typically makes orthorhombic crystals.

Conditions on Venus seem rather unsuitable for S_8 to persist. It melts
at only 115°C (boiling at 445°C) under terrestrial conditions, and in
the molten state the rings tend to open, forming polymeric S_n chains. I
don't know exactly what effects the great atmospheric pressures would
have on its behaviour, though. The melting point would be somewhat
higher, because the liquid is 5-10% less dense than the solid, but I
doubt it would become high enough for the substance to remain solid.
FWIW sulphur's triple point is at over twice the pressure, and nearly
twice the temperature, of Venus's surface.

Brad's claim is that there's a band of S8 some tens of kms above the
Venusian surface. It is vaguely possible these are similar to ice
crystals, and there is a mention of haze in

http://www.springerlink.com/content/q165ljt76p368268/

Truly weird stuff, though, either way...and probably not all that
healthy for those of us spawned from terra firma. :-)

--
#191,
GNU and improved.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You've messed this one up, with having crossposted into your Third
Reich cesspools of "alt.fan.art-bell, alt.usenet.kooks", so I'll
repost to the original set of groups.

Venus is nothing but weird and/or strange on steroids. It's a fairly
newish planet because it's still so freaking hot on the inside.
Everything about Venus and of its robust atmosphere is essentially
proto-Earth worthy.

Most of everything we've been told about Venus is simply dead wrong.
Other than all of that, we should go there, and at least **** on a hot
rock. I'll even supply the ice cold beer.

If Venus is to much for any Ovglove jumpsuit, then a POOF city at VL2
seems the next best thing. From VL2 all sorts of fully robotic and
capably remote flown explorations are quite doable, and from VL2 we
could even nuke those existing locals or whatever visiting ETs with
another nifty shock and awe round of our diplomatic policy, that which
supposedly worked out so nicely on Iraq.
-
Brad Guth