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Good arguments supporting reality of Global Warming
With Congress's recent clueless shelving of any legislation in
response to global warming, I found the following synopsis of arguments in support of climatologists' warnings about the issue to be very clear and persuasive. This is an article in the Skeptical Ensquirer, by Dr. David Morrison, the Senior Scientist at the NASA Astrobiology Institute, at http://www.csicop.org/si/show/disinf...lobal_warming/ |
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Good arguments supporting reality of Global Warming
On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 01:20:31 -0700 (PDT), stargene
wrote: With Congress's recent clueless shelving of any legislation in response to global warming, I found the following synopsis of arguments in support of climatologists' warnings about the issue to be very clear and persuasive. This is an article in the Skeptical Ensquirer, by Dr. David Morrison, the Senior Scientist at the NASA Astrobiology Institute, at http://www.csicop.org/si/show/disinf...lobal_warming/ Where is the argument? Who rationally thinks that global warming HAS NOT been going on for the past 12,000 years, since the end of the last period of glaciation. How long has it been since the Great Lakes remained frozen over throughout the summer? How long has it been since there was so much sea water removed and converted into polar ice that the Bering Straight was a land bridge between what is now Russia and Alaska? How long has it been since those Neanderthals could walk from what is now France to Spain, across the Straight of Gibraltar without getting their feet wet? And, the really BIG question is, how much longer do we have before this planet starts sinking back into the next period of glaciation? We are overdue here, if this current cycle follows the same pattern that previous cycles followed. |
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Good arguments supporting reality of Global Warming
On Aug 2, 9:39*am, Antares 531 wrote:
On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 01:20:31 -0700 (PDT), stargene wrote: With Congress's recent clueless shelving of any legislation in response to global warming, I found the following synopsis of arguments in support of climatologists' warnings about the issue to be very clear and persuasive. *This is an article in the Skeptical Ensquirer, by Dr. David Morrison, the Senior Scientist at the NASA Astrobiology Institute, at http://www.csicop.org/si/show/disinf...lobal_warming/ Where is the argument? Who rationally thinks that global warming HAS NOT been going on for the past 12,000 years, since the end of the last period of glaciation. How long has it been since the Great Lakes remained frozen over throughout the summer? How long has it been since there was so much sea water removed and converted into polar ice that the Bering Straight was a land bridge between what is now Russia and Alaska? How long has it been since those Neanderthals could walk from what is now France to Spain, across the Straight of Gibraltar without getting their feet wet? And, the really BIG question is, how much longer do we have before this planet starts sinking back into the next period of glaciation? We are overdue here, if this current cycle follows the same pattern that previous cycles followed. As long as we hold onto our moon, there's never going to be another ice age (not even any little dip). ~ BG |
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Good arguments supporting reality of Global Warming
On Mon, 2 Aug 2010 14:53:10 -0700 (PDT), Brad Guth
wrote: On Aug 2, 9:39*am, Antares 531 wrote: On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 01:20:31 -0700 (PDT), stargene wrote: With Congress's recent clueless shelving of any legislation in response to global warming, I found the following synopsis of arguments in support of climatologists' warnings about the issue to be very clear and persuasive. *This is an article in the Skeptical Ensquirer, by Dr. David Morrison, the Senior Scientist at the NASA Astrobiology Institute, at http://www.csicop.org/si/show/disinf...lobal_warming/ Where is the argument? Who rationally thinks that global warming HAS NOT been going on for the past 12,000 years, since the end of the last period of glaciation. How long has it been since the Great Lakes remained frozen over throughout the summer? How long has it been since there was so much sea water removed and converted into polar ice that the Bering Straight was a land bridge between what is now Russia and Alaska? How long has it been since those Neanderthals could walk from what is now France to Spain, across the Straight of Gibraltar without getting their feet wet? And, the really BIG question is, how much longer do we have before this planet starts sinking back into the next period of glaciation? We are overdue here, if this current cycle follows the same pattern that previous cycles followed. As long as we hold onto our moon, there's never going to be another ice age (not even any little dip). ~ BG Brad, are you implying that, in the past, our moon left this planet each time a prolonged period of glaciation began, then came back to warm things up about 100,000 years later? The periodic recurrence of periods of glaciation followed by interglacial warm periods has happened before. This whole cycle usually takes about 115,000 years. |
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Good arguments supporting reality of Global Warming
"Antares 531" wrote in message ... | On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 01:20:31 -0700 (PDT), stargene | wrote: | | With Congress's recent clueless shelving of any legislation in | response to global | warming, I found the following synopsis of arguments in support of | climatologists' | warnings about the issue to be very clear and persuasive. This is an | article in the Skeptical Ensquirer, by Dr. David Morrison, the Senior | Scientist at the NASA Astrobiology Institute, at | | http://www.csicop.org/si/show/disinf...lobal_warming/ | Where is the argument? Who rationally thinks that global warming HAS | NOT been going on for the past 12,000 years, since the end of the last | period of glaciation. How long has it been since the Great Lakes | remained frozen over throughout the summer? How long has it been since | there was so much sea water removed and converted into polar ice that | the Bering Straight was a land bridge between what is now Russia and | Alaska? How long has it been since those Neanderthals could walk from | what is now France to Spain, across the Straight of Gibraltar without | getting their feet wet? Errr... check your geography. The Straight of Gibraltar lies between Spain and Morocco. The Pyrenees separate France from Spain. Ask the Tour-de-France competitors, they know all about mountain climbing. Perhaps it would be more appropriate to refer to the North Sea. Fishing trawlers working the area have dredged up large amounts of moor peat, remains of mammoth and rhinoceros, and occasionally Paleolithic hunting artefacts. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogger_Bank | And, the really BIG question is, how much longer do we have before | this planet starts sinking back into the next period of glaciation? We | are overdue here, if this current cycle follows the same pattern that | previous cycles followed. | |
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Good arguments supporting reality of Global Warming
On Mon, 2 Aug 2010 23:42:03 +0100, "Androcles"
wrote: "Antares 531" wrote in message .. . | On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 01:20:31 -0700 (PDT), stargene | wrote: | | With Congress's recent clueless shelving of any legislation in | response to global | warming, I found the following synopsis of arguments in support of | climatologists' | warnings about the issue to be very clear and persuasive. This is an | article in the Skeptical Ensquirer, by Dr. David Morrison, the Senior | Scientist at the NASA Astrobiology Institute, at | | http://www.csicop.org/si/show/disinf...lobal_warming/ | Where is the argument? Who rationally thinks that global warming HAS | NOT been going on for the past 12,000 years, since the end of the last | period of glaciation. How long has it been since the Great Lakes | remained frozen over throughout the summer? How long has it been since | there was so much sea water removed and converted into polar ice that | the Bering Straight was a land bridge between what is now Russia and | Alaska? How long has it been since those Neanderthals could walk from | what is now France to Spain, across the Straight of Gibraltar without | getting their feet wet? Errr... check your geography. The Straight of Gibraltar lies between Spain and Morocco. The Pyrenees separate France from Spain. Ask the Tour-de-France competitors, they know all about mountain climbing. Perhaps it would be more appropriate to refer to the North Sea. Fishing trawlers working the area have dredged up large amounts of moor peat, remains of mammoth and rhinoceros, and occasionally Paleolithic hunting artefacts. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogger_Bank My error. I should have said, "between Spain and Morocco" but got things mixed up a bit. Sorry. | And, the really BIG question is, how much longer do we have before | this planet starts sinking back into the next period of glaciation? We | are overdue here, if this current cycle follows the same pattern that | previous cycles followed. | |
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Good arguments supporting reality of Global Warming
"Antares 531" wrote in message ... | On Mon, 2 Aug 2010 23:42:03 +0100, "Androcles" | wrote: | | | "Antares 531" wrote in message | .. . | | On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 01:20:31 -0700 (PDT), stargene | | wrote: | | | | With Congress's recent clueless shelving of any legislation in | | response to global | | warming, I found the following synopsis of arguments in support of | | climatologists' | | warnings about the issue to be very clear and persuasive. This is an | | article in the Skeptical Ensquirer, by Dr. David Morrison, the Senior | | Scientist at the NASA Astrobiology Institute, at | | | | http://www.csicop.org/si/show/disinf...lobal_warming/ | | Where is the argument? Who rationally thinks that global warming HAS | | NOT been going on for the past 12,000 years, since the end of the last | | period of glaciation. How long has it been since the Great Lakes | | remained frozen over throughout the summer? How long has it been since | | there was so much sea water removed and converted into polar ice that | | the Bering Straight was a land bridge between what is now Russia and | | Alaska? How long has it been since those Neanderthals could walk from | | what is now France to Spain, across the Straight of Gibraltar without | | getting their feet wet? | | Errr... check your geography. The Straight of Gibraltar lies between | Spain and Morocco. The Pyrenees separate France from Spain. Ask | the Tour-de-France competitors, they know all about mountain climbing. | Perhaps it would be more appropriate to refer to the North Sea. | Fishing trawlers working the area have dredged up large amounts of moor | peat, remains of mammoth and rhinoceros, and occasionally Paleolithic | hunting artefacts. | | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogger_Bank | | My error. I should have said, "between Spain and Morocco" but got | things mixed up a bit. Sorry. No big deal, but the Straight of Gibraltar is about 3000 feet deep. The Dogger Bank is about 50 feet below sea level. Not much chance of finding a land bridge from Africa to Europe, it would have been done by dogga or walking the long way around via Turkey. Not that any of this changes global warming HAS been going on for the past 12,000 years, since the end of the last period of glaciation. With that I fully concur. Blaming it on CO2 is just plain silly and doesn't matter anyway. Coastal cities are rebuilt inside a century by simply tearing down old buildings and putting up new ones. Nobody cares that the Sahara is currently a desert, people have moved away long ago. The Earth is a dynamic system that will take care of itself, with or without humanity. We have no control over it and Nature does not bend to our wishful thinking. Still, it is fun jerking the bozos around, so do carry on. | | | And, the really BIG question is, how much longer do we have before | | this planet starts sinking back into the next period of glaciation? We | | are overdue here, if this current cycle follows the same pattern that | | previous cycles followed. | | | |
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Good arguments supporting reality of Global Warming
On Tue, 3 Aug 2010 02:13:39 +0100, "Androcles"
wrote: "Antares 531" wrote in message .. . | On Mon, 2 Aug 2010 23:42:03 +0100, "Androcles" | wrote: | | | "Antares 531" wrote in message | .. . | | On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 01:20:31 -0700 (PDT), stargene | | wrote: | | | | With Congress's recent clueless shelving of any legislation in | | response to global | | warming, I found the following synopsis of arguments in support of | | climatologists' | | warnings about the issue to be very clear and persuasive. This is an | | article in the Skeptical Ensquirer, by Dr. David Morrison, the Senior | | Scientist at the NASA Astrobiology Institute, at | | | | http://www.csicop.org/si/show/disinf...lobal_warming/ | | Where is the argument? Who rationally thinks that global warming HAS | | NOT been going on for the past 12,000 years, since the end of the last | | period of glaciation. How long has it been since the Great Lakes | | remained frozen over throughout the summer? How long has it been since | | there was so much sea water removed and converted into polar ice that | | the Bering Straight was a land bridge between what is now Russia and | | Alaska? How long has it been since those Neanderthals could walk from | | what is now France to Spain, across the Straight of Gibraltar without | | getting their feet wet? | | Errr... check your geography. The Straight of Gibraltar lies between | Spain and Morocco. The Pyrenees separate France from Spain. Ask | the Tour-de-France competitors, they know all about mountain climbing. | Perhaps it would be more appropriate to refer to the North Sea. | Fishing trawlers working the area have dredged up large amounts of moor | peat, remains of mammoth and rhinoceros, and occasionally Paleolithic | hunting artefacts. | | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogger_Bank | | My error. I should have said, "between Spain and Morocco" but got | things mixed up a bit. Sorry. No big deal, but the Straight of Gibraltar is about 3000 feet deep. The Dogger Bank is about 50 feet below sea level. Not much chance of finding a land bridge from Africa to Europe, it would have been done by dogga or walking the long way around via Turkey. Not that any of this changes global warming HAS been going on for the past 12,000 years, since the end of the last period of glaciation. With that I fully concur. Blaming it on CO2 is just plain silly and doesn't matter anyway. Coastal cities are rebuilt inside a century by simply tearing down old buildings and putting up new ones. Nobody cares that the Sahara is currently a desert, people have moved away long ago. The Earth is a dynamic system that will take care of itself, with or without humanity. We have no control over it and Nature does not bend to our wishful thinking. Still, it is fun jerking the bozos around, so do carry on. True, but it hasn't always been this way. When the ocean level got to the point that water began to flow over the Straight of Gibraltar bridge it washed a lot of it away. I have no data on this, but I wonder if the warming oceans are producing much more plant life, and this increase in plant life may be sequestering more CO2 than our industrial pollution is releasing. | | | And, the really BIG question is, how much longer do we have before | | this planet starts sinking back into the next period of glaciation? We | | are overdue here, if this current cycle follows the same pattern that | | previous cycles followed. | | | |
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Good arguments supporting reality of Global Warming
"Antares 531" wrote in message ... | On Tue, 3 Aug 2010 02:13:39 +0100, "Androcles" | wrote: | | | "Antares 531" wrote in message | .. . | | On Mon, 2 Aug 2010 23:42:03 +0100, "Androcles" | | wrote: | | | | | | "Antares 531" wrote in message | | .. . | | | On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 01:20:31 -0700 (PDT), stargene | | | wrote: | | | | | | With Congress's recent clueless shelving of any legislation in | | | response to global | | | warming, I found the following synopsis of arguments in support of | | | climatologists' | | | warnings about the issue to be very clear and persuasive. This is an | | | article in the Skeptical Ensquirer, by Dr. David Morrison, the Senior | | | Scientist at the NASA Astrobiology Institute, at | | | | | | http://www.csicop.org/si/show/disinf...lobal_warming/ | | | Where is the argument? Who rationally thinks that global warming HAS | | | NOT been going on for the past 12,000 years, since the end of the last | | | period of glaciation. How long has it been since the Great Lakes | | | remained frozen over throughout the summer? How long has it been since | | | there was so much sea water removed and converted into polar ice that | | | the Bering Straight was a land bridge between what is now Russia and | | | Alaska? How long has it been since those Neanderthals could walk from | | | what is now France to Spain, across the Straight of Gibraltar without | | | getting their feet wet? | | | | Errr... check your geography. The Straight of Gibraltar lies between | | Spain and Morocco. The Pyrenees separate France from Spain. Ask | | the Tour-de-France competitors, they know all about mountain climbing. | | Perhaps it would be more appropriate to refer to the North Sea. | | Fishing trawlers working the area have dredged up large amounts of moor | | peat, remains of mammoth and rhinoceros, and occasionally Paleolithic | | hunting artefacts. | | | | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogger_Bank | | | | My error. I should have said, "between Spain and Morocco" but got | | things mixed up a bit. Sorry. | | No big deal, but the Straight of Gibraltar is about 3000 feet deep. The | Dogger Bank is about 50 feet below sea level. Not much chance of | finding a land bridge from Africa to Europe, it would have been done | by dogga or walking the long way around via Turkey. Not that any of | this changes global warming HAS been going on for the past 12,000 | years, since the end of the last period of glaciation. With that I fully | concur. Blaming it on CO2 is just plain silly and doesn't matter anyway. | Coastal cities are rebuilt inside a century by simply tearing down old | buildings and putting up new ones. Nobody cares that the Sahara is | currently a desert, people have moved away long ago. The Earth is | a dynamic system that will take care of itself, with or without humanity. | We have no control over it and Nature does not bend to our wishful | thinking. Still, it is fun jerking the bozos around, so do carry on. | | True, but it hasn't always been this way. When the ocean level got to | the point that water began to flow over the Straight of Gibraltar | bridge it washed a lot of it away. It doesn't work like that. If the world began to freeze up so that snow fell on Antarctica and in the North over Canada and Siberia so that the ice sheet reach as far south as Youngstown, Ohio (which it once did) to a height of two miles, then we can estimate the volume of ice by area x height. This volume, spread over the oceans of the world, would yield a drop in sea level of 300 to 800 feet (deliberately wide range chosen). Because the depth of the Gibraltar Straight is 3000 feet, much deeper than the 800 feet at the height of the glaciation, there was never a bridge to begin with in the 3,000,000 years of man's existence on this planet. http://www.cyburbia.org/gallery/data...ntal-drift.gif There may have a bridge 65 million years ago, but not 12,000 years ago. | | I have no data on this, but I wonder if the warming oceans are | producing much more plant life, and this increase in plant life may be | sequestering more CO2 than our industrial pollution is releasing. Most of the world's oxygen comes from algae http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algae It'll chew up the CO2 as fast as it is produced. Earth's temperature is regulated by clouds, not by CO2. Negative feedback: 1) Sun heats ocean. 2) Ocean evaporates and forms clouds. 3) Clouds reflect sunlight into space, reduce evaporation. If you doubt it, feel the sunlight on your skin when a cloud obscures the sun. 4) Less cloud forms, more heat is absorbed, more cloud forms, less heat is absorbed; Earth's temperature remains constant. If it gets warmer, it will cool. If it gets cooler, it will warm. Positive feedback: 5) Snow falls on land and polar ice fields. 6) Snow/ice reflects sunlight into space, reduces heat absorption. Water absorbs sunlight, increases energy intake. Ice reflects sunlight, reduces energy intake. If you doubt it, take a swim in the Gulf of Mexico and another in the Arctic Ocean. 7) Earth cools as it radiates heat to space, more snow falls, more sunlight is reflected, result is an Ice Age. The colder it is, the colder it will get. The warmer it is, the warmer it will get. Changing the balance: http://androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co...erSunlight.jpg 8) Earth's orbit is elliptical. 9) Sunlight obeys the inverse square law. 10) Earth is tilted. 11) More sunlight reaches Earth at perihelion than at aphelion. 12) Earth's Great White Spot, Antarctica, reflects sunlight at aphelion (Southern summer). http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/image/earth_1_apollo17.gif Result, positive feedback predominates, Ice Age. 13) Earth precesses. Earth's Great White Spot reflects sunlight at perihelion (Northern summer). But Earth's Great White Spot has no sunlight to reflect and the Northern Wet Spot (the Arctic Ocean) has even more sunlight to melt its ice cap than it had when it faced the Sun at aphelion. Water absorbs far more heat than ice. Result: more sunlight absorbed, positive feedback, natural global warming. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...precession.gif 14) But it is offset by more cloud, see negative feedback above. Overall result - a small change in mean temperature as a function of precession. 15) CO2 levels rise as a consequence of a warmer planet, not as the cause. Why? Because with more heat we have more thunderstorms and more lightning and more forest fires, plants grow faster in a richer CO2 atmosphere and the world gets greener instead of whiter. 16) Far more strange gases are vented to atmosphere by volcanoes than by man. See "Carbon cycle". It's been that way for at least 3 billion years; homo neanderthalensis is alive and well and arrogant enough to say he causes it. He is, of course, an idiot who thinks he can "combat" the quite natural temperature cycle of a couple of degrees. Nature doesn't care if he builds cities along the coast or birds build nests in trees, the rule is ADAPT OR DIE. So when your coastal cities are flooded as they will be and you have no control over that, move inland or go and live in Greenland. You can fight for control of land, homo neanderthalensis is a territorial animal and the fittest survive. Nuke the opposition and pass your own genes on. | | | | | | | And, the really BIG question is, how much longer do we have before | | | this planet starts sinking back into the next period of glaciation? We | | | are overdue here, if this current cycle follows the same pattern that | | | previous cycles followed. | | | | | |
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