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Referencing our planet to the Sun



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 21st 19, 10:09 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gerald Kelleher
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Default Referencing our planet to the Sun

Perhaps the one issue which distinguishes the astronomy I practice from celestial sphere enthusiasts is that I incorporate the inner solar system and the central Sun rather than restricting the view to the distant stars as the original Sun centred astronomers did or worse still, the motion of the stars in stellar circumpolar motion which tries to reference the Earth's rotation to 'above' and the local horizon .

The planet's two distinct rotations are referenced to the Sun as separate day/night cycles (daily and polar) and likewise the direct/retrogrades of the faster moving planets where their back and forth motions in front and then behind the Sun departs from the attempt to link them to the celestial sphere of stars belonging to theorists since the late 17th century.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VVCiPp67vI&t=206s

For those who can't accept what is in front of them there is no redemption, nothing to enjoy or see but only an endless biting eating other in a hell of their own intellectual pretense. It ends for those who do appreciate what imaging does and they go on to share in the great journey of life as men.
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  #2  
Old January 22nd 19, 03:54 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Quadibloc
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Default Referencing our planet to the Sun

On Monday, January 21, 2019 at 3:09:14 PM UTC-7, Gerald Kelleher wrote:
Perhaps the one issue which distinguishes the astronomy I practice from celestial sphere enthusiasts is that I incorporate the inner solar system and the
central Sun rather than restricting the view to the distant stars as the original Sun centred astronomers did or worse still, the motion of the stars in
stellar circumpolar motion which tries to reference the Earth's rotation to 'above' and the local horizon .


The world will be better for this
That one man, scorned and covered with scars
Still strove, with his last ounce of courage

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQizNZKiyYs

The only problem is that this song is from the Broadway play "Man of La Mancha",
which is adapted from the novel _Don Quixote_... about a man who charges at
windmills in the mistaken belief that they are some sort of monster menacing the
countryside.

The Earth's orbit around the Sun is elliptical, so the direction from the Earth
to the Sun doesn't change uniformly. To treat the Earth as a physical rotating
body, following the same laws as a child's top, one can't use a complicated
variable reference, which is why the fixed stars must be used instead.

And as this leads to the *right answers*, empiricists rest content that they are
doing the right thing.

John Savard
  #3  
Old January 22nd 19, 05:47 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
JBI
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Posts: 10
Default Referencing our planet to the Sun

On 1/22/19 10:54 AM, Quadibloc wrote:
On Monday, January 21, 2019 at 3:09:14 PM UTC-7, Gerald Kelleher wrote:
Perhaps the one issue which distinguishes the astronomy I practice from celestial sphere enthusiasts is that I incorporate the inner solar system and the
central Sun rather than restricting the view to the distant stars as the original Sun centred astronomers did or worse still, the motion of the stars in
stellar circumpolar motion which tries to reference the Earth's rotation to 'above' and the local horizon .


The world will be better for this
That one man, scorned and covered with scars
Still strove, with his last ounce of courage

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQizNZKiyYs

The only problem is that this song is from the Broadway play "Man of La Mancha",
which is adapted from the novel _Don Quixote_... about a man who charges at
windmills in the mistaken belief that they are some sort of monster menacing the
countryside.

The Earth's orbit around the Sun is elliptical, so the direction from the Earth
to the Sun doesn't change uniformly. To treat the Earth as a physical rotating
body, following the same laws as a child's top, one can't use a complicated
variable reference, which is why the fixed stars must be used instead.

And as this leads to the *right answers*, empiricists rest content that they are
doing the right thing.

John Savard


I'm only going to comment once on this, but I've been reading this guy's
posts for years and I still cannot understand a thing he's trying to
say. Kudos to anyone who does, but I think it's a failing effort. Ok,
only time I'm going to comment on this, so done.
  #4  
Old January 22nd 19, 06:09 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
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Posts: 324
Default Referencing our planet to the Sun

JBI wrote in :

On 1/22/19 10:54 AM, Quadibloc wrote:
On Monday, January 21, 2019 at 3:09:14 PM UTC-7, Gerald
Kelleher wrote:
Perhaps the one issue which distinguishes the astronomy I
practice from celestial sphere enthusiasts is that I
incorporate the inner solar system and the central Sun rather
than restricting the view to the distant stars as the original
Sun centred astronomers did or worse still, the motion of the
stars in stellar circumpolar motion which tries to reference
the Earth's rotation to 'above' and the local horizon .


The world will be better for this
That one man, scorned and covered with scars
Still strove, with his last ounce of courage

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQizNZKiyYs

The only problem is that this song is from the Broadway play
"Man of La Mancha", which is adapted from the novel _Don
Quixote_... about a man who charges at windmills in the
mistaken belief that they are some sort of monster menacing the
countryside.

The Earth's orbit around the Sun is elliptical, so the
direction from the Earth to the Sun doesn't change uniformly.
To treat the Earth as a physical rotating body, following the
same laws as a child's top, one can't use a complicated
variable reference, which is why the fixed stars must be used
instead.

And as this leads to the *right answers*, empiricists rest
content that they are doing the right thing.

John Savard


I'm only going to comment once on this, but I've been reading
this guy's posts for years and I still cannot understand a thing
he's trying to say.


Don't feel bad. He doesn't either.

Kudos to anyone who does, but I think it's
a failing effort.


If there's anyone who does, they should take their meds, too. Gerry
is . . . not quite right in the head.

Ok, only time I'm going to comment on this,
so done.

Heh.

--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

  #5  
Old January 22nd 19, 08:00 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
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Posts: 324
Default Referencing our planet to the Sun

Quadibloc wrote in
:

On Tuesday, January 22, 2019 at 12:09:35 PM UTC-7, Jibini Kula
Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
JBI wrote in :


Kudos to anyone who does, but I think it's
a failing effort.


If there's anyone who does, they should take their meds, too.
Gerry is . . . not quite right in the head.


Oh, dear. Because I had engaged in debate with him until he
broke it off, some time ago, I believe I *do* understand what
he's on about.


And you're pretty well known to be a loony as he is.

It isn't even really that he's incomprehensible so much as he's so
****ing crazy why would anybody *try* to understand him?

--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

  #6  
Old January 22nd 19, 08:33 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Quadibloc
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Posts: 7,003
Default Referencing our planet to the Sun

On Tuesday, January 22, 2019 at 12:09:35 PM UTC-7, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
JBI wrote in :


Kudos to anyone who does, but I think it's
a failing effort.


If there's anyone who does, they should take their meds, too. Gerry
is . . . not quite right in the head.


Oh, dear. Because I had engaged in debate with him until he broke it off, some
time ago, I believe I *do* understand what he's on about. I certainly don't
blame anyone for thinking it's not worth the effort to read enough of what he
has written to find out, though.

But it's not that complicated.

He is full of praise for the accomplishments of Copernicus, Galileo, and Kepler,
who showed that the Earth orbits the Sun and not the other way around.

But he draws the line at Newton.

Newton explained how the Solar System works with his law of universal
gravitation, and by applying the same mechanical laws as govern Earthly objects
to the Sun, the planets, and their moons.

He is dead set against that.

From his point of view:

- The celestial realm follows its own rules, and these are, basically, heavenly
mysteries. Instead of trying to figure them out, astronomers should simply enjoy
and appreciate the beautiful spectacle.

- The Earth rotates once every 24 hours (*not* once every 23 hours, 56 minutes,
and 4 seconds) and the Moon does not rotate (rather than rotating once every 27
1/3 days).

The rotation of a body is properly referenced to its primary, not to something
outside the system - the Moon is not to go over the Earth's head to relate to
the Sun or the stars, and the Earth is not to go over the Sun's head to relate
to the stars.

And of course he is impervious to the facts - the Equation of Time in the case
of the Earth, and libration in longitude in the case of the Moon - that show
that only by referencing the rotations of those bodies to the stars does one get
a rotation that is uniform (except for small variations with known physical
causes).

If gravitation is a fiction, and the heavenly bodies don't follow laws like
conservation of angular momentum, how then does one explain the discovery of
Neptune? Again, he will hear none of it.

John Savard
  #7  
Old January 22nd 19, 09:38 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Quadibloc
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Posts: 7,003
Default Referencing our planet to the Sun

On Tuesday, January 22, 2019 at 2:00:34 PM UTC-7, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:

It isn't even really that he's incomprehensible so much as he's so
****ing crazy why would anybody *try* to understand him?


Why, because I had, due to my kind heart, entertained vain hopes of leading him to
the light of reason by carefully explaining to him where he is mistaken.

John Savard
  #8  
Old January 22nd 19, 10:29 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 324
Default Referencing our planet to the Sun

Quadibloc wrote in
:

On Tuesday, January 22, 2019 at 2:00:34 PM UTC-7, Jibini Kula
Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:

It isn't even really that he's incomprehensible so much as he's
so ****ing crazy why would anybody *try* to understand him?


Why, because I had, due to my kind heart, entertained vain hopes
of leading him to the light of reason by carefully explaining to
him where he is mistaken.


Like I said, you're well known to be as loony as he is.

--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

  #9  
Old January 23rd 19, 06:41 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gerald Kelleher
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Posts: 1,528
Default Referencing our planet to the Sun

The sequence of astronomical events in 2003 where Mercury passes in front of the Sun while Venus travels in the opposite direction behind the Sun is enjoyable for those who can interpret the imaging correctly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvBI4Kirpbw

A rough guide aids the observer and adds to their enjoyment when they next see the position of Venus and Mercury , both to our slower moving planet at our position and to the central Sun -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-g5JkGzALNc

We are a long way now from those who came to the forum with their illusory direct/retrograde loops of the faster moving planets so I assume they have come to understand the range and power of satellite imaging which provides a parallel story to complement the 500 year old resolution for the direct/retrogrades of the slower moving planets.

  #10  
Old February 16th 19, 10:34 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
corvastro
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Posts: 19
Default Referencing our planet to the Sun

On Tuesday, January 22, 2019 at 1:38:54 PM UTC-8, Quadibloc wrote:
On Tuesday, January 22, 2019 at 2:00:34 PM UTC-7, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:

It isn't even really that he's incomprehensible so much as he's so
****ing crazy why would anybody *try* to understand him?


Why, because I had, due to my kind heart, entertained vain hopes of leading him to
the light of reason by carefully explaining to him where he is mistaken.

John Savard


I don't see what is so attractive to him. It is just a narrow field view of the vicinity of the Sun from a viewpoint close to the Earth.

All the yearly sequences are pretty much the same - they don't even show very much of Mercury's and Venus's orbits.

He seems, to me, like a child with OCD.

 




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