Proposal for an American Space-Based Economy

On Dec 11, 6:12*pm, BradGuth wrote:
On Dec 11, 2:34*pm, American wrote:





On Dec 10, 5:49*pm, William Mook wrote:

On Dec 10, 3:02*pm, American wrote:

On Dec 9, 4:54*pm, William Mook wrote:

To speak persuasively about our materials needs it might help if you
actually knew what our materials needs are as a nation, and what the
world would have to produce to sustain industry at a level necessary
for everyone on Earth to live as US levels of consumption, or better
yet, US millionaire levels of consumption.

Here's the mineral datahttp://minerals.usgs.gov/minerals/pubs/mcs/

Here's the list of things that are critical to expansion of industry
(other than energy)

antimony
beryllium
cadmium
chromium
cobalt
columbium
germanium
hafnium
indium
lithium
manganeses
mercury
molybdenum
nickel
platinum
rhenium
selenium
tantalum
tellurium
titanium
tungsten
vanadium
zirconium

Bottom line, about two tons of materials are needed for every man
woman and child on the planet each year, broken down into some
fraction dedicated to each of the materials listed above, along with
iron and so forth.

6.4 trillion watts of solar power collected at the asteroid belt, is
sufficient to project material at an annual rate sufficient to meet
the needs outlined here. It takes only a very small fraction of these
materials to erect a system capable of transferring materials at the
rate needed.

Of course there are other inputs, time and talent, which also must be
organized to use this vast flood of materials - that is also well
within our capacity to achieve.

You want spectrographic signatures for all of that?

They are already available.

http://isis.hampshire.edu/seminars/

To me, it sounds like in your opinion, it’s an all-or-nothing
move to replace, or at least complement the mineral deposits
that already exist here – by developing the technology for
acquiring those deposits transorbitally.

We either make the investments to lower the cost of things going
forward, and make life better for everyone, or we do not, and work out
ways to allocate the shortages, pain and hard work needed to maintain
a deteriorating living standard.

Either we make the investment needed, or we do not.

We know the amounts, we know the technique, we know the costs that
must be achieved, from this we can organize the scale of effort its
nature and scope. *The good news is we have the resources to do it.
Its less than that of a world war, more than that of a regional war.
The bad news is we don't have a broad appreciation of what's needed,
the scale of the effort, or the will to carry such an effort forward.
Which is crazy given the amounts of money humanity spends on non-
productive efforts like warfare.

There seem to be some questions that arise according to this
line of thinking:

a) * * *If joined with the interest for (aa) orbital adventure cruises,

The total amounts spent on high-end experiential travel is as nothing
when compared to the total amounts spent on raw materials, especially
when compared the amounts that *could* be spent if everyone consumed
at the level of today's millionaires.

any *person involving themselves with trans-orbital R&D ends up either
slave to those interested in (aa), or master (bb) of their own,
completely privatized, free-market enterprise at some fair expense to
(aa).

You are rehearsing our prejudices and really contributing nothing of
value to what is needed since you are blinded by those prejudices.
Free-markets mean nothing if there are no property rights. *There are
no property rights in space. *So, first and foremost, we need to have
property rights extended to space based assets the same as they are
present on Earth. *Second, we need to have a way of recording,
allocating and adjudicating those rights among individuals,
corporations, and public entities. *Once this is in place, then we can
talk about how to organize financing, allocate risks, and administer
public interest. *At this point part of the $40 trillion in liquid
assets held among the world's 10.1 million millionaires on this planet
will flow into the development of space based assets.

We have the rules we have, and promote the attitudes we have, in the
mistaken notion that we are protecting the world from missile
proliferation. *If we can cheaply and routinely transport materiel
from the asteroids to any spot on Earth, then we can transport bombs
from anywhere on Earth to anywhere else on Earth, and that is
considered too risky to allow.

b) * * *An (aa) partaker has to decide if he or she is willing to either
completely separate him/herself from the transnationalist-entrenched
financial world of *heavily manipulated earth-bound mineralogy, or
align himself with a completely separated system (bb) of economics –
economics that may or may not end up being *interplanetary* in
nature.
c) * * *Since the *interplanetary* system of economics must never become
connected to the earth-bound infrastructure, not only because of *the
present near-impossibility of detecting incoming transports, but also
because transports would have the tendency to “dump” either precious
metals or rare minerals on the market – thus devaluing the price of
gold within the international markets – causing world havoc – so there
should be *established some kind of standard or trade association
between the earth-bound and transorbital market infrastructure – that
could regulate the amount of “traffic” entering or leaving orbit.

On Dec 11, 6:12*pm, BradGuth wrote:

William Mook would love nothing less than a prison planet, whereas
99.9% of us get a 0% slice of that future pie that we (the lower
99.9%) always get to pay for.

Let me straighten something out that was said earlier in reference to
those who “bow to humanist leaders or golden calves”.

This was an awkward statement to make about being “their time” and not
“ours”.

What I meant to say is that at the “right time” a coordinated effort
must be mobilized in order to put an end to anything that would trap
an investor through either bribery, extortion, or conflicts of
interest that end up becoming TORT-infected in the long run.

Is it possible that NASA can produce the kind of leadership that would
be required for a spin-off technology to further the necessary earth-
to-orbit infrastructure required, so as to remain focused on just a
few massively coordinated projects for mining the asteroids?

Most NWO specialists IMO are driven through bribery. Why? Because the
drive to socialize every aspect of people’s lives through
microscopically managing them with bureaucratic protocol throughout
the society is an agreed-upon principle for punishing the achievers as
well as keeping those with potential from reaching their dreams, and
ultimately preventing the entire economic vision for advancing the
species of humanity as a whole – all for the sake of diluting the best
incentive in order to equalize the private wealth of individuals and
maximize profit to those that work for every micromanaging office in
the state.

The U.S. IMO is in the last stage of micromanagement being just
“symptomatic” in its problem for pioneering independence as a way
from breaking the financial shackles that the NWO offers in one of the
largest “blame games” in history.

The real problem lies in the perception of what “independence” should
be world-wide – NOT that the cup of independence is becoming “HALF
EMPTY” but that it is BECOMING “HALF FULL”. It is the way that the
state-controlled mass-media consistently marginalizes the spin on the
revolutionary spirit of substantive achievement throughout the nation
– as well as throughout the world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outer_Space_Treaty

Interestingly, The Outer Space Treaty lets nations do their own
governing regarding space mining activities, because territorial
sovereignty is prohibited by Article II. Any construction activity in
a non-geosynchronous orbit may be regarded as outside the territorial
sovereignty of any country. Private ownership is therefore provided
under the natural law theory of property rights. Under Article VIII,
property rights are conferred and recognized by any country outside of
territorial sovereignty. These rights include the following:

1) The right to exclude others from space facilities and safety
zones,
2) The right to be free of interference from others,
3) The right to control the activities of all natural persons and
legal entities within the owner's space facility and and safety
zone(s),
4) The right to direct the activities of space vehicles and persons
inside those vehicles while the vehicle is in the space facility and
its related safety zone, and
5) The exclusive right to appropriate resources within the space
facility and its related safety zone, and
6) The right to sell property rights.

Under the Outer Space Treaty, property rights are subject to the
following limitations:

1) if the owner of the space facility or safety zone(s) stops using
his property for peaceful purposes, the rights shall immediately
terminate;
2) if the owner of the space facility or safety zone(s) abandons the
property for a period of two years or more, the rights shall
terminate;
3) If the owner of an orbital facility deviates from the registered
orbital parameters by more than [a percentage to be defined when the
treaty is negotiated], for a period of one month or more, then rights
shall immediately terminate;
4) owners may not establish property rights that would prevent others
from having free access to outer space and celestial bodies;
5) owners shall have the right to direct the activities of space
vehicles on the registry of other states, and the persons inside those
vehicles, only to the extent necessary to protect the safety of other
space objects and persons within the owner(s) space facility and
safety zone(s);
6) owners shall not have the right to exclude persons who come to
inspect the owner's space facility, on the basis of reciprrocity,
pursuant to article XII of the Outer Space Treaty.

Regarding prospecting for precious metals and the like, the doctrine
of pedis possessio says that occupation of a territory (i.e.,
asteroid) for the purpose of mining is treated as a licensee or tenant
at will; of course, radiometric detection of precious metals using
synthetic aperture radar does not require terrestrial mining because
erosion does not take place on an asteroid. The location and
recording of data regarding surface scans of an asteroid would be
difficult to ascertain without first retrieving a sample extraction
for proof of telepresence. Thus remote sensing and telerobotics are
vital to securing pedis possessio under the General Mining Law.

That’s why IMO one must seriously research and develop the use of
gamma ray spectroscopy – particularly as it applies to primary and
precious metal remote mapping and telepresence in a “flyby” of sorts
before the asteroid is even considered as a candidate for further
mining.


~

On Dec 11, 5:34*pm, American wrote:
On Dec 10, 5:49*pm, William Mook wrote:



On Dec 10, 3:02*pm, American wrote:

On Dec 9, 4:54*pm, William Mook wrote:

To speak persuasively about our materials needs it might help if you
actually knew what our materials needs are as a nation, and what the
world would have to produce to sustain industry at a level necessary
for everyone on Earth to live as US levels of consumption, or better
yet, US millionaire levels of consumption.

Here's the mineral datahttp://minerals.usgs.gov/minerals/pubs/mcs/

Here's the list of things that are critical to expansion of industry
(other than energy)

antimony
beryllium
cadmium
chromium
cobalt
columbium
germanium
hafnium
indium
lithium
manganeses
mercury
molybdenum
nickel
platinum
rhenium
selenium
tantalum
tellurium
titanium
tungsten
vanadium
zirconium

Bottom line, about two tons of materials are needed for every man
woman and child on the planet each year, broken down into some
fraction dedicated to each of the materials listed above, along with
iron and so forth.

6.4 trillion watts of solar power collected at the asteroid belt, is
sufficient to project material at an annual rate sufficient to meet
the needs outlined here. It takes only a very small fraction of these
materials to erect a system capable of transferring materials at the
rate needed.

Of course there are other inputs, time and talent, which also must be
organized to use this vast flood of materials - that is also well
within our capacity to achieve.

You want spectrographic signatures for all of that?

They are already available.

http://isis.hampshire.edu/seminars/

To me, it sounds like in your opinion, it’s an all-or-nothing
move to replace, or at least complement the mineral deposits
that already exist here – by developing the technology for
acquiring those deposits transorbitally.

We either make the investments to lower the cost of things going
forward, and make life better for everyone, or we do not, and work out
ways to allocate the shortages, pain and hard work needed to maintain
a deteriorating living standard.

Either we make the investment needed, or we do not.

We know the amounts, we know the technique, we know the costs that
must be achieved, from this we can organize the scale of effort its
nature and scope. *The good news is we have the resources to do it.
Its less than that of a world war, more than that of a regional war.
The bad news is we don't have a broad appreciation of what's needed,
the scale of the effort, or the will to carry such an effort forward.
Which is crazy given the amounts of money humanity spends on non-
productive efforts like warfare.

There seem to be some questions that arise according to this
line of thinking:

a) * * *If joined with the interest for (aa) orbital adventure cruises,

The total amounts spent on high-end experiential travel is as nothing
when compared to the total amounts spent on raw materials, especially
when compared the amounts that *could* be spent if everyone consumed
at the level of today's millionaires.

any *person involving themselves with trans-orbital R&D ends up either
slave to those interested in (aa), or master (bb) of their own,
completely privatized, free-market enterprise at some fair expense to
(aa).

You are rehearsing our prejudices and really contributing nothing of
value to what is needed since you are blinded by those prejudices.
Free-markets mean nothing if there are no property rights. *There are
no property rights in space. *So, first and foremost, we need to have
property rights extended to space based assets the same as they are
present on Earth. *Second, we need to have a way of recording,
allocating and adjudicating those rights among individuals,
corporations, and public entities. *Once this is in place, then we can
talk about how to organize financing, allocate risks, and administer
public interest. *At this point part of the $40 trillion in liquid
assets held among the world's 10.1 million millionaires on this planet
will flow into the development of space based assets.

We have the rules we have, and promote the attitudes we have, in the
mistaken notion that we are protecting the world from missile
proliferation. *If we can cheaply and routinely transport materiel
from the asteroids to any spot on Earth, then we can transport bombs
from anywhere on Earth to anywhere else on Earth, and that is
considered too risky to allow.

b) * * *An (aa) partaker has to decide if he or she is willing to either
completely separate him/herself from the transnationalist-entrenched
financial world of *heavily manipulated earth-bound mineralogy, or
align himself with a completely separated system (bb) of economics –
economics that may or may not end up being *interplanetary* in
nature.
c) * * *Since the *interplanetary* system of economics must never become
connected to the earth-bound infrastructure, not only because of *the
present near-impossibility of detecting incoming transports, but also
because transports would have the tendency to “dump” either precious
metals or rare minerals on the market – thus devaluing the price of
gold within the international markets – causing world havoc – so there
should be *established some kind of standard or trade association
between the earth-bound and transorbital market infrastructure – that
could regulate the amount of “traffic” entering or leaving orbit.
d) * * *If (c) is not achievable in either 5 or 10 years from now, then
there would seem to be a conflict with either (a) or (b) – meaning
that there is a present move to either rob, kill, or destroy the “high
horse” that space advocates of this type seem to be touting, in favor
of a retreat to the colonialism of the past, which IMHO, is a
prescription for world disaster, and pretty much an end to at least
50% of those who won’t agree with the way that NWO advocacy is the
same as HR3962 as a welfare state in disguise.

~

Same thing - Yours is based on fear - mine's based on - what'd you say
- "prejudice" - except yours is more fundamentally "prison planet" w/o
even the SYMPTOM of prejudice - that's pretty well DAMNED and HARD,
IMO, and ultimately based on the deliverence of someone (or something)
else's system of barter or exchange.

You haven't a clue about what you're talking about. I am.

Why not make it easier for those with NO TRANSNATIONAL INCENTIVE to go
TRANSNATIONALLY ORBITAL, or even TRANSORBITAL for that matter, in
order to (obliterate) the dependency on TRANSNATIONALIST
MONEYCHANGING??

This statement makes absolutely no sense whatever.

I spoke about

1) the mass flow rate from the asteroids needed to sustain high
living standard
2) the energy needed to sustain that rate along Hohmann transfer
orbits
3) the level of effort needed to achieve this end
4) compared and contrasted it with comparable levels ie warfare
5) spoke specifically to the elements in short supply on Earth
6) pointed to spectrographic database for detailed analysis

You speak in vague generalities about hot button words that have no
meaning whatever.



Sure its a revolt, but like our free-market capitalist framers said -
SHOW ME THE MONEY OR ELSE (metaphorically speaking) and "Over the
course of human events..."

Bull****

THIS IS A REVOLT - NOT ANY ATTEMPT TO PLAY INTO THE HANDS OF WORLD-
CLASS SOCIALISTS OR GREEN NAZI DEINDUSTRIALISTS.

More bull****

IT IS A PASSION OF MEN TO BE FREE OF WORLD CLASS TYRANNY - NEVER TO
BOW TO EITHER HUMANIST LEADERS OR GOLDEN CALVES!

THEIR TIME HAS ARRIVED!

Don't you see?

Perfectly. You are spouting bull**** about words that are important
to you on an emotional level while ignoring any real or relevant
technical discussion.

The reality is there are no property rights beyond the land masses of
Earth, and most of those don't have property rights either. This is
the first issue - property rights off-world. The second, is
administering those rights. The third is creating investment vehicles
to develop off-world property rights. The fourth is addressing
legitimate third party issues (safety, security, etc.)

The easiest part is detailing the technologies required. There are a
variety that will work. Next easiest is detailing the benefits of
addressing these issues.

The nations of Earth have common problems and common opportunities
when it comes to space travel. These problems and opportunities will
be addressed jointly.

Since Arrow has proven that governments and markets do not work as we
used to believe they did (and the majority still wrongly believe they
do) your commentary about governments versus markets is not even
wrong. Its like talking about what high altitude flights means to the
flat Earth. haha - you can't be wrong when your presumptions are
clueless.


(NOT OURS)

That being said, it is infared spectrographic signatures that only
reveal the wavelengths of mostly reflected light - NOT good enough for
discerning the individual mineral molecules (has to be done at "flyby,
ayuger-electron heights" rather than long distance, reflectance
spectras)

More clueless drivel.

Gamma ray spectometry is the preferred technology,

bull****.

but the observation
has to be made in close proximitry - much like Hayabusa et al, except
with the gamma.

more bull****.

American

"Those who do not learn from the past are condemned to repeat it"

Those who are clueless in the present are condemned to be powerless in
a world they do not understand.

This has nothing whatever to do with a space based economy.

More germane is this

http://marinebiztv.wordpress.com/200...on-deadweight/

World shipping industry consists of a 'lift' capacity of 1.12 billion
deadweight tons. With 'cycle times' of 90 days, this represents 4.5
billion tons. Fifty percent of this shipping capacity serves the
richest 1.1 billion people in the world. Americas, Europe, Asian
Tigers. This is 2 tons per person per year. To achieve this flow of
raw material for 8 billion people means increasing processing capacity
to 16 billion tons per year. To meet the needs of 8 billion
millionaires - through other analysis - shows that something on the
order of 25 billion tons per year would be needed.

To achieve these ends, with existing technologies, and existing free
capital (there are 10.1 million millionaires who control $40 trillion
in liquid wealth today - which vastly exceeds ALL the world's
governments combined (total liquid wealth in the world is $58 trillion
with $12 trillion controlled by governments and $6 trillion for
everyone else (and $40 trillion the millionaires)))

Getting things started with say 10% of this total, $4 trillion, and
growing internally from profits earned, is where public policy should
start.

Stated previously, there are no property rights off-world, no means of
administering property rights off-world, no way to invest in
developing properties off-world, etc.

This is quite separate from the issues surrounding the shortcomings of
present forms of government and business as a way to organize human
affairs rationally.

It is also quite separate from issues surrounding the technical
challenges of meeting the needs of human industry using off-world
assets and resources.

The point is,

1) we have the technical means and have had the technical means for
the past fifty years to do whatever we wanted in the solar system;

2) the solar system has sufficient resources to meet all human
industrial needs while reducing the impact of human industry on the
Earth's biosphere

3) the world's richest people have more than enough liquid assets to
develop the technical means to develop off-world resources

4) the world's most powerful governments have gone out of their way to
remove the technical means from the industrial sector to develop
offworld resources out of a mistaken notion of national security and
global security.

5) this has created an artificial scarcity of resources that has
created a real challenge to national security and global security.

So what you’re saying is that these millionaires are too valuable in
the financial world to be any more viable than those who, in your
opinion, would have to subject themselves to the human/AI interface,
while all of the time you’re using your most important technology in
order to place trans-orbital personnel at the mercy of every tool,
instrument, and module they should be using (e.g. robotics or
telepresence followed up by remote drilling) given

(1) WHO gets the data first of e.g. a huge deposit of precious metal,
and
(2) How many of the “quick and dirty” technologies will be ready to
maximize profits once the “deliversbles have been achieved.

IMO you’re still getting stuffed by a good taxidermist in a game of
foul play of who’s who that really doesn’t know what’s what.

Don’t millionaires collude and compete with each other while trying to
keep things like the IRS off their backs? Who will be there to
advance the cause of freedom in order to open up the market thousands
of times more widely than it initially “pans out”?

The cause of freedom and the establishment will always be in
competition with each other, and so the King Midas that you seek won’t
ever be fought for, but will end up being a free-for-all after-the-
fact IMO.

The standard apology for not being able to lend those interested any
capital is that its being tied up in currency (haha) and its anyones
guess as to who’s money is being preyed upon – right down to the short
end of the stick.

Given the market for something like this is of such a tightwad nature,
there would have to be drops of blood before the money gets to flow in
the right direction IMO – I’ll take my chances keeping secrets until
it’s the right time for putting them into practice.

My question to you is what is the concentration of transition
frequencies for the precious metals from the gamma ray spectrum?

The ANGIE 64 channel pixel readout chip technology might have been a
precursor to Photobit's pixel processor. However, for X-ray imaging
at 100 frames per second with 64 cells per frame equalling 6400 cells
per second (12 bits/cell), the ANGIE 64 channel pixel processor
presently remains one of the most viable candidates for pixel
processing. Problem is, with pixels, you've just got to be there to
view, so where in the circuitry does teleoperation take place?

There’s the human/AI interface huckleberry, go figure…


American