Is this why we still do not have Selene L1

Perhaps any platform of science instruments and cameras covering
multiple bandpass spectrums from IR to UV, including TRACE and OCO
instrumentation as interactively parked within Selene L1, as intended
for looking back at Earth or forbid that of our physically dark Selene/
moon, as such would only have been too gosh darn informative and
otherwise truth revealing.

“Lunar Smackdown”
http://www.airspacemag.com/space-exp...Smackdown.html
Notice how even though equal or far better resolution of the Apollo
era existed, that never once was such a spacecraft or any kind of
associated “smackdown” recorded and published for public review. It’s
as though our 100% public funded NASA and DARPA were being stingy

“At 8:13 p.m. EST a 217-second S-IVB auxiliary propulsion system burn
aimed the S-IVB for a lunar target point so accurately that another
burn was not required. The S-IVB/IU impacted the lunar surface at 8:10
p.m. EST on April 14 at a speed of 259 meters per second. Impact was
137.1 kilometers from the Apollo 12 seismometer. The seismic signal
generated by the impact lasted 3 hours 20 minutes and was so strong
that a ground command was necessary to reduce seismometer gain and
keep the recording on the scale. The suprathermal ion detector
experiment, also deployed by the Apollo 12 crew, recorded a jump in
the number of ions from zero at the time of impact up to 2,500 shortly
thereafter and then back to a zero count. Scientists theorized that
ionization had been produced by 6,300 K to 10,300 K (6,000 degrees C
to 10,000 degrees C) temperature generated by the impact or that
particles had reached an altitude of 60 kilometers from the lunar
surface and had been ionized by sunlight.”

LCROSS (impactor 901 kg)
http://lcross.arc.nasa.gov/mission.htm
http://lcross.arc.nasa.gov/docs/LCROSS_FS082108.pdf
The Apollo era had multiple items of much greater mass impacting our
moon, many of those having impacted at full velocity of 2.5 km/s, and
yet our supposed “right stuff” never having obtained an image from
nearby orbit or even that via any terrestrial based observations that
should have been way more than sufficient, especially considering
their inert mass and impact velocity.

“Three days later the 30,700-pound (13,925 kilogram) hulk struck the
lunar surface at 5,600 miles per hour (2.5 kilometers per second) some
74 miles (119 kilometers) west-northwest of the Apollo 12 landing
site, releasing energy estimated as equivalent to the explosion of 7.7
tons (7,000 kilograms) of TNT.”

“Several spent lunar module ascent stages and Saturn V S-IVB stages
used in the Apollo missions were deliberately sent to impact the
surface in order to test the effects of these artificial "meteorite"
impacts on the seismometers. In all, four lunar modules and five
Saturn upper stages were directed to the surface.” And yet never a
public published image of any such horrific impacts as they took
place. How odd, that we should need to conduct such repetitive
science.

Of somewhat further noteworthy interest: Within the limited DR of a
Nikon Coolpix 5000, darn if Mars doesn’t outshine our physically dark
as coal Selene/moon (exactly as it should).
http://www.space.com/scienceastronom...on_030717.html

For some silly reason, out of all the thousands of unobstructed
orbital obtained images with nothing but the very best of film and
optics, and the same goes for all those tens of thousands of surface
EVA obtained frames by way of all sorts of nifty cameras and video,
that not once was there any hint of Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Mercury or
even the extremely vibrant Venus above their physically dark as coal
lunar surface.

Of course by now there are thousands of amateur images, though badly
impaired by way of our polluted and otherwise incoming photon deprived
due to our spectrum filtering atmosphere, that which still managed to
show us our Selene/moon along with those other items as unavoidably
getting into the same FOV(frame of view). Go far enough south, even
down-under south of our equator and you can’t but help getting a good
side by side perspectives of our moon including Sirius in the same
FOV, and of course from orbiting or walking upon our physically dark
moon is next to impossible to so entirely exclude Sirius and
especially those pesky other planets from a few of those images, but
none the less they had managed to do just that.

Sirius A depicted as sufficiently relative to the brightness and color/
hue of other stars, along with the nearly invisible Sirius B of a
false color, although our extremely nearby Selene/moon as clearly
having to be an overexposed or that of an excess photon saturated
simulation is what forces any computer simulated or composite image of
our moon along with Sirius to look ultra white instead of being nearly
as dark as coal. Of course our NASA has far better simulators that
would be 100% true and fully capable of giving us a complex simulated
image of our moon along with Sirius within the same FOV.

Here’s a wide field of view depicting the Visible and X-ray images of
our moon and Sirius in the very same FOV.
http://www.nmm.ac.uk/rog/2008/02/

Of course most any half-baked orbital simulator easily proves that
from orbiting our moon it would have been technically impossible to
entirely avoid getting Sirius and/or a few other items of planets in
the same FOV as our physically dark as coal moon. But then I suppose
with “the right stuff” almost anything becomes possible.

~ Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth BG / “Guth Usenet”


On Mar 3, 7:51*am, BradGuth wrote:
Were there good enough reasons to sabotage OCO, and/or was Big Energy
simply capable of putting their usual voodoo hex on such a mission?

Emissions of sweet gas flares in Alberta, Canada.
Coal has certainly been much worse than any typical oil extraction
process for that of our environment and personal health, but you
wouldn’t want your family, pets or any food source within 10 downwind
miles of a typical oil extraction field or major refinery. *In some
instances 100 miles might be considered a safe distance.

“The observation that gas flaring in the Niger Delta is causing acid
rain is also backed by the U.S government's Energy Information
Administration”
*http://www.climatelaw.org/cases/coun...ase-documents/....

“The human health effects of exposure to pollutant emissions from gas
flares will be localized to the vicinity of such flares. Therefore, it
is important to estimate how much gas each flow station in the Delta
flares. Recent data show that the Kolo Creek and Obama flow stations
in Bayelsa State flare, on average, approximately 800,000 m3/day of
gas” (most of which they’d like nothing better than to simply burn off
in order to prevent catastrophic local fireballs that could otherwise
incinerate most everything in sight).

*“Hence, based on the Canadian data, an 800,000 m3/day sweet gas flare
would elevate ambient air levels of particulate matter by 21 ug/m3 at
a distance of 1,325 meters from such flare, and would elevate ambient
levels of benzene by 2.3 ug/m3.”

Some nations have enforcement of flare gas standards to go by.
*“Burning of gas in fields that produce 150,000 m3 or less per month,
or in fields with a gas-petroleum ratio of less than 20 m3/m3”

In other words, they don’t want to see more flare gas (of primarily
methane) combustion greater than 20 m3 per m3 of extracted oil. *They
even attempt to restrict this incineration gauntlet down to the dull
roar of *“60,000 m3 per month for the pilots of flares on
installations at sea”. * Most oil fields and especially offshore
directly utilize 33% of their vented methane in order to produce a
source of local energy, of which does nothing except pass-through
whatever’s helium. *Therefore, per m3 of extracted oil can contribute
its 1% of 30 m3 of associated methane as raw helium, or 0.3 m3 helium
per m3 of crude oil. *That’s 30% helium per volume of crude oil. *In
trying to remain conservative, we might suggest 20% per volume of
crude as helium.

Of course, most all of this artificially created CO2 via oil flare gas
combustion and of our coal industry ventilation of releasing gas and
toxins, including its raw methane, helium and even freed hydrogen
would not have gone unnoticed by those new and greatly improved
science instruments of our spendy and badly needed OCO mission, that
which rather conveniently failed to get deployed. *What we have got
here is a serious Big Energy butt load of damage-control motives, more
than sufficient opportunities and certainly the wherewithal means by
which to foil or eliminate any such public funded science that might
give the rest of us an honest clue as to what we’re doing to our
environment.

“The Canadian Public Health Association has noted over 250 identified
toxins.”

In addition to the mostly artificial release of helium, there’s also a
fair amount of hydrogen set free, that isn’t otherwise properly stored
or consumed, and always good old SO2, CO2 plus NOx for good measure,
and much of everything else you wouldn’t dare put into your body, plus
a few elements heavy enough (such as radon) that’ll sink to the
surface and/or combine with other perfectly acceptable elements so as
to dilute or cloak there existence (acidic rain being one of the most
common, although others such as benz[a]pyrene and dioxin are certainly
worth noting), many of which would have been OCO remote spectrometer
detected and even rather nicely quantified per better than 3 km2
resolution. *In other words, a large enough cache of Porta-Potties
might have been easily detected and their gas output quantified by
those three bore-sighted high-resolution spectrometers. *In the near
future, instead of extrapolating data from spectrophotometry, with
better instruments based upon the x-ray or gamma spectrometer format
could narrow this resolution detail down to a few m2, thus eliminating
all possible doubt as to where each and every m3 of such gas
contributed elements are coming from. *In other words, a Big Energy
executive couldn’t fart without being detected.

If you don’t want to know about the extensive CO2 contributions, then
by all means don’t go to this next link.

CARBON DIOXIDE EQUIVALENTS PER BARREL OF CRUDE
*https://www.edockets.state.mn.us/EFi...Number=5589092
*336472 kg of CO2 per barrel of extracted crude (excluding methane
combustion) seems a tidbit high, but what hell, it’s only our frail
environment and quality of life we’re trashing. *All we have to do is
adjust ourselves to a future of 1000 ppm(0.1%) CO2 and stop our
incessant whining about acid rain, global warming, or the accelerated
erosion of our precious topsoils, plus the inflationary cost of most
everything that’s becoming spendy as hell.

Paint me silly, but I smell rotten eggs. *Too bad as of 4 decades ago
we didn’t establish our robust platform or gateway/outpost of
sufficient robotic/remote science within the ideal orbital location of
Selene L1, offering the best ever whole Earth observations including
the contents of and solar wind interactions with our badly failing
magnetosphere. *Instead we keep wasting time, resources and our hard
earned loot on LEO limited observations that seldom if ever agree with
one another.

*~ Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth BG / “Guth Usenet”

Yet another nice try by those in perpetual AGW denial or bust, but
none the less there’s still no celestial GW cigar for James Croll
either, and Milankovitch isn’t exactly doing much better.

According to the Milankovitch cycles, a +.1% change in the 1380 w/m2
average solar influx = 1.12 K average surface temperature increase (an
impressive 0.39% maximum thermal shift). Which is to say that
whatever affects the orbital eccentricity of Earth (such as Jupiter
and Saturn), has in fact measurably affected the average terrestrial
temperature, just as the human industrial and private impacts upon our
environment having measurably affected the atmospheric thinning,
albedo dimming and subsequent average surface temperature.

Oddly the most local of orbital eccentricity influences comes from our
Selene/moon and most certainly next getting contributed from that of a
nearby Venus alignment that seems in of itself highly tidal locked, in
that the same face of Venus is shown to us upon each and every 19
month alignment cycle, compounded worse yet whenever a combined lunar
plus Venus alignment takes place should nearly exceed the +/- 0.05%
solar influx shift, though only for a very short period of time as for
having influenced our briefly distorted terrestrial orbit about our
mostly passive sun.

Once again and again, if only we had a sufficient platform of our
science instruments operating from within the efficient orbital
location of our Selene/moon L1, as could have been quite easily and
affordably established as of four decades ago, and greatly improved
upon ever since.

The truly big thermal shift of thawing us out from the very last ice-
age this planet w/moon is ever going to see, started as of 11,711
years ago (+/- 1 yr). Before then is gets more than a little weird,
as these pesky ice-ages and subsequent thaw cycles occurred more and
more frequently, therefore making it highly unlikely that the
influence of Jupiter and Saturn were all that responsible unless they
were each orbiting closer and a little faster.
~ BG


On Apr 19, 4:44*pm, BradGuth wrote:
Perhaps any platform of science instruments and cameras covering
multiple bandpass spectrums from IR to UV, including TRACE and OCO
instrumentation as interactively parked within Selene L1, as intended
for looking back at Earth or forbid that of our physically dark Selene/
moon, as such would only have been too gosh darn informative and
otherwise truth revealing.

“Lunar Smackdown”
*http://www.airspacemag.com/space-exp...Smackdown.html
*Notice how even though equal or far better resolution of the Apollo
era existed, that never once was such a spacecraft or any kind of
associated “smackdown” recorded and published for public review. *It’s
as though our 100% public funded NASA and DARPA were being stingy

“At 8:13 p.m. EST a 217-second S-IVB auxiliary propulsion system burn
aimed the S-IVB for a lunar target point so accurately that another
burn was not required. The S-IVB/IU impacted the lunar surface at 8:10
p.m. EST on April 14 at a speed of 259 meters per second. Impact was
137.1 kilometers from the Apollo 12 seismometer. The seismic signal
generated by the impact lasted 3 hours 20 minutes and was so strong
that a ground command was necessary to reduce seismometer gain and
keep the recording on the scale. The suprathermal ion detector
experiment, also deployed by the Apollo 12 crew, recorded a jump in
the number of ions from zero at the time of impact up to 2,500 shortly
thereafter and then back to a zero count. Scientists theorized that
ionization had been produced by 6,300 K to 10,300 K (6,000 degrees C
to 10,000 degrees C) temperature generated by the impact or that
particles had reached an altitude of 60 kilometers from the lunar
surface and had been ionized by sunlight.”

LCROSS (impactor 901 kg)
*http://lcross.arc.nasa.gov/mission.htm
*http://lcross.arc.nasa.gov/docs/LCROSS_FS082108.pdf
The Apollo era had multiple items of much greater mass impacting our
moon, many of those having impacted at full velocity of 2.5 km/s, and
yet our supposed “right stuff” never having obtained an image from
nearby orbit or even that via any terrestrial based observations that
should have been way more than sufficient, especially considering
their inert mass and impact velocity.

“Three days later the 30,700-pound (13,925 kilogram) hulk struck the
lunar surface at 5,600 miles per hour (2.5 kilometers per second) some
74 miles (119 kilometers) west-northwest of the Apollo 12 landing
site, releasing energy estimated as equivalent to the explosion of 7.7
tons (7,000 kilograms) of TNT.”

“Several spent lunar module ascent stages and Saturn V S-IVB stages
used in the Apollo missions were deliberately sent to impact the
surface in order to test the effects of these artificial "meteorite"
impacts on the seismometers. In all, four lunar modules and five
Saturn upper stages were directed to the surface.” *And yet never a
public published image of any such horrific impacts as they took
place. *How odd, that we should need to conduct such repetitive
science.

Of somewhat further noteworthy interest: *Within the limited DR of a
Nikon Coolpix 5000, darn if Mars doesn’t outshine our physically dark
as coal Selene/moon (exactly as it should).http://www.space.com/scienceastronom...on_030717.html

For some silly reason, out of all the thousands of unobstructed
orbital obtained images with nothing but the very best of film and
optics, and the same goes for all those tens of thousands of surface
EVA obtained frames by way of all sorts of nifty cameras and video,
that not once was there any hint of Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Mercury or
even the extremely vibrant Venus above their physically dark as coal
lunar surface.

Of course by now there are thousands of amateur images, though badly
impaired by way of our polluted and otherwise incoming photon deprived
due to our spectrum filtering atmosphere, that which still managed to
show us our Selene/moon along with those other items as unavoidably
getting into the same FOV(frame of view). *Go far enough south, even
down-under south of our equator and you can’t but help getting a good
side by side perspectives of our moon including Sirius in the same
FOV, and of course from orbiting or walking upon our physically dark
moon is next to impossible to so entirely exclude Sirius and
especially those pesky other planets from a few of those images, but
none the less they had managed to do just that.

Sirius A depicted as sufficiently relative to the brightness and color/
hue of other stars, along with the nearly invisible Sirius B of a
false color, although our extremely nearby Selene/moon as clearly
having to be an overexposed or that of an excess photon saturated
simulation is what forces any computer simulated or composite image of
our moon along with Sirius to look ultra white instead of being nearly
as dark as coal. *Of course our NASA has far better simulators that
would be 100% true and fully capable of giving us a complex simulated
image of our moon along with Sirius within the same FOV.

Here’s a wide field of view depicting *the Visible and X-ray images of
our moon and Sirius in the very same FOV.
*http://www.nmm.ac.uk/rog/2008/02/

Of course most any half-baked orbital simulator easily proves that
from orbiting our moon it would have been technically impossible to
entirely avoid getting Sirius and/or a few other items of planets in
the same FOV as our physically dark as coal moon. *But then I suppose
with “the right stuff” almost anything becomes possible.

*~ Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth BG / “Guth Usenet”

On Mar 3, 7:51*am, BradGuth wrote: Were there good enough reasons to sabotage OCO, and/or was Big Energy
simply capable of putting their usual voodoo hex on such a mission?

Emissions of sweet gas flares in Alberta, Canada.
Coal has certainly been much worse than any typical oil extraction
process for that of our environment and personal health, but you
wouldn’t want your family, pets or any food source within 10 downwind
miles of a typical oil extraction field or major refinery. *In some
instances 100 miles might be considered a safe distance.

“The observation that gas flaring in the Niger Delta is causing acid
rain is also backed by the U.S government's Energy Information
Administration”
*http://www.climatelaw.org/cases/coun...ase-documents/...

“The human health effects of exposure to pollutant emissions from gas
flares will be localized to the vicinity of such flares. Therefore, it
is important to estimate how much gas each flow station in the Delta
flares. Recent data show that the Kolo Creek and Obama flow stations
in Bayelsa State flare, on average, approximately 800,000 m3/day of
gas” (most of which they’d like nothing better than to simply burn off
in order to prevent catastrophic local fireballs that could otherwise
incinerate most everything in sight).

*“Hence, based on the Canadian data, an 800,000 m3/day sweet gas flare
would elevate ambient air levels of particulate matter by 21 ug/m3 at
a distance of 1,325 meters from such flare, and would elevate ambient
levels of benzene by 2.3 ug/m3.”

Some nations have enforcement of flare gas standards to go by.
*“Burning of gas in fields that produce 150,000 m3 or less per month,
or in fields with a gas-petroleum ratio of less than 20 m3/m3”

In other words, they don’t want to see more flare gas (of primarily
methane) combustion greater than 20 m3 per m3 of extracted oil. *They
even attempt to restrict this incineration gauntlet down to the dull
roar of *“60,000 m3 per month for the pilots of flares on
installations at sea”. * Most oil fields and especially offshore
directly utilize 33% of their vented methane in order to produce a
source of local energy, of which does nothing except pass-through
whatever’s helium. *Therefore, per m3 of extracted oil can contribute
its 1% of 30 m3 of associated methane as raw helium, or 0.3 m3 helium
per m3 of crude oil. *That’s 30% helium per volume of crude oil. *In
trying to remain conservative, we might suggest 20% per volume of
crude as helium.

Of course, most all of this artificially created CO2 via oil flare gas
combustion and of our coal industry ventilation of releasing gas and
toxins, including its raw methane, helium and even freed hydrogen
would not have gone unnoticed by those new and greatly improved
science instruments of our spendy and badly needed OCO mission, that
which rather conveniently failed to get deployed. *What we have got
here is a serious Big Energy butt load of damage-control motives, more
than sufficient opportunities and certainly the wherewithal means by
which to foil or eliminate any such public funded science that might
give the rest of us an honest clue as to what we’re doing to our
environment.

“The Canadian Public Health Association has noted over 250 identified
toxins.”

In addition to the mostly artificial release of helium, there’s also a
fair amount of hydrogen set free, that isn’t otherwise properly stored
or consumed, and always good old SO2, CO2 plus NOx for good measure,
and much of everything else you wouldn’t dare put into your body, plus
a few elements heavy enough (such as radon) that’ll sink to the
surface and/or combine with other perfectly acceptable elements so as
to dilute or cloak there existence (acidic rain being one of the most
common, although others such as benz[a]pyrene and dioxin are certainly
worth noting), many of which would have been OCO remote spectrometer
detected and even rather nicely quantified per better than 3 km2
resolution. *In other words, a large enough cache of Porta-Potties
might have been easily detected and their gas output quantified by
those three bore-sighted high-resolution spectrometers. *In the near
future, instead of extrapolating data from spectrophotometry, with
better instruments based upon the x-ray or gamma spectrometer format
could narrow this resolution detail down to a few m2, thus eliminating
all possible doubt as to where each and every m3 of such gas
contributed elements are coming from. *In other words, a Big Energy
executive couldn’t fart without being detected.

If you don’t want to know about the extensive CO2 contributions, then
by all means don’t go to this next link.

CARBON DIOXIDE EQUIVALENTS PER BARREL OF CRUDE
*https://www.edockets.state.mn.us/EFi...Number=5589092
*336472 kg of CO2 per barrel of extracted crude (excluding methane
combustion) seems a tidbit high, but what hell, it’s only our frail
environment and quality of life we’re trashing. *All we have to do is
adjust ourselves to a future of 1000 ppm(0.1%) CO2 and stop our
incessant whining about acid rain, global warming, or the accelerated
erosion of our precious topsoils, plus the inflationary cost of most
everything that’s becoming spendy as hell.

Paint me silly, but I smell rotten eggs. *Too bad as of 4 decades ago
we didn’t establish our robust platform or gateway/outpost of
sufficient robotic/remote science within the ideal orbital location of
Selene L1, offering the best ever whole Earth observations including
the contents of and solar wind interactions with our badly failing
magnetosphere. *Instead we keep wasting time, resources and our hard
earned loot on LEO limited observations that seldom if ever agree with
one another.

*~ Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth BG / “Guth Usenet”

Yet another nice try by those in perpetual AGW denial or bust damage-
control mode, but none the less there’s still no celestial GW cigar
for James Croll, and Milankovitch isn’t exactly doing much better.
Not that our Eden/Earth doesn’t naturally cycle from cold to hot and
back to cold as based upon outside or off-world factors, such as
including our close association with the nearby Sirius star/solar
system that in recent time of just 250 million BP used to be worthy of
perhaps 12+ solar masses.

According to the Milankovitch cycles, a +0.1% change in the 1380 w/m2
average solar influx = 1.12 K average surface temperature increase (an
impressive 0.39% maximum thermal shift). Which is to say that
whatever affects the orbital eccentricity of Earth (such as Jupiter
and Saturn) has in fact measurably affected the average terrestrial
temperature, just as the human industrial and each of our individual
impacts upon our environment having measurably affected the
atmospheric thinning, albedo dimming via soot laced with various
elements of artificial pollution and the subsequent average surface
temperature having upon average shifted upwards.

Btw, ingesting a few16oz cans/servings of carbonated whatever per day
is offering perhaps 5 to as great as 27 fold that of what our
background CO2 daily intake of polluted atmosphere has to offer.
“Carbonated soft drinks contain from 2700 to more than 10000 ppm”, but
then some of us manage to down a CO2 saturated sixpack worth of
carbonic acidic drink per day, and for some reason we are still here
to talk about it. So, our polluted environment that includes a
commercial industry that is intentionally creating CO2, has quite a
ways to go before our artificially carbonated atmosphere starts to
sparkle and fizz. However, for this global environment there is
always too much of a good thing, including amounts above 250 ppm (.
025%) CO2, unless it were only the factor and not the dozen some odd
other nasty contributions that we’ve provided on top of our 360 ppm
CO2 saturation.

Oddly the most local of orbital eccentricity influences comes from our
Selene/moon and most certainly next getting contributed from that of a
nearby Venus alignment that seems in of itself highly tidal locked, in
that the same face of Venus is shown to us upon each and every 19
month alignment cycle, at times compounded worse yet whenever a
combined lunar plus Venus alignment takes place should nearly exceed
the +/- 0.05% solar influx shift, though only for a very short period
of time, as for having influenced our briefly distorted terrestrial
orbit about our mostly passive sun.

Once again and again, if only we had a sufficient platform of our
science instruments operating from within the efficient orbital
location of our Selene/moon L1, as could have been quite easily and
affordably established as of four decades ago, and greatly improved
upon ever since.

The truly big thermal shift of thawing us out from the very last ice-
age this planet w/moon is ever going to see, started as of 11,711
years ago (+/- 1 yr). Before then is gets more than a little weird,
as these pesky ice-ages and subsequent thaw cycles occurred more and
more frequently, therefore making it highly unlikely that the
influence of Jupiter and Saturn were all that responsible unless they
were each orbiting closer and a little faster.

As of most recently in geological and evolutionary time, it seems the
human race has been helping mother nature get rid of her hydrogen and
helium, of which the natural isotope element of helium that’s strictly
derived from radioactive element decay is simply not recombining and
thus not sticking around, so to speak, and we’re talking about roughly
a thousand fold more tonnage of mostly helium and some hydrogen that’s
leaving Eden per year, as opposed to 365,000 tonnes/yr of debris
received.

The good news is that eventually we’ll run ourselves out of fossil
fuels and not even have sufficient alternatives for mining and
processing other raw mineral elements, therefore the loss of helium
will greatly reduce itself back to the background norm of seeing an
outgassing flow of perhaps less than 1 ppmv at sea level, as well as
hydrogen at less than 0.5 ppmv. Of course the WWV economy by then
will also become based upon how many sticks and stones each of us has
at our disposal.
~ BG


On Apr 19, 4:44*pm, BradGuth wrote:
Perhaps any platform of science instruments and cameras covering
multiple bandpass spectrums from IR to UV, including TRACE and OCO
instrumentation as interactively parked within Selene L1, as intended
for looking back at Earth or forbid that of our physically dark Selene/
moon, as such would only have been too gosh darn informative and
otherwise truth revealing.

“Lunar Smackdown”
*http://www.airspacemag.com/space-exp...Smackdown.html
*Notice how even though equal or far better resolution of the Apollo
era existed, that never once was such a spacecraft or any kind of
associated “smackdown” recorded and published for public review. *It’s
as though our 100% public funded NASA and DARPA were being stingy

“At 8:13 p.m. EST a 217-second S-IVB auxiliary propulsion system burn
aimed the S-IVB for a lunar target point so accurately that another
burn was not required. The S-IVB/IU impacted the lunar surface at 8:10
p.m. EST on April 14 at a speed of 259 meters per second. Impact was
137.1 kilometers from the Apollo 12 seismometer. The seismic signal
generated by the impact lasted 3 hours 20 minutes and was so strong
that a ground command was necessary to reduce seismometer gain and
keep the recording on the scale. The suprathermal ion detector
experiment, also deployed by the Apollo 12 crew, recorded a jump in
the number of ions from zero at the time of impact up to 2,500 shortly
thereafter and then back to a zero count. Scientists theorized that
ionization had been produced by 6,300 K to 10,300 K (6,000 degrees C
to 10,000 degrees C) temperature generated by the impact or that
particles had reached an altitude of 60 kilometers from the lunar
surface and had been ionized by sunlight.”

LCROSS (impactor 901 kg)
*http://lcross.arc.nasa.gov/mission.htm
*http://lcross.arc.nasa.gov/docs/LCROSS_FS082108.pdf
The Apollo era had multiple items of much greater mass impacting our
moon, many of those having impacted at full velocity of 2.5 km/s, and
yet our supposed “right stuff” never having obtained an image from
nearby orbit or even that via any terrestrial based observations that
should have been way more than sufficient, especially considering
their inert mass and impact velocity.

“Three days later the 30,700-pound (13,925 kilogram) hulk struck the
lunar surface at 5,600 miles per hour (2.5 kilometers per second) some
74 miles (119 kilometers) west-northwest of the Apollo 12 landing
site, releasing energy estimated as equivalent to the explosion of 7.7
tons (7,000 kilograms) of TNT.”

“Several spent lunar module ascent stages and Saturn V S-IVB stages
used in the Apollo missions were deliberately sent to impact the
surface in order to test the effects of these artificial "meteorite"
impacts on the seismometers. In all, four lunar modules and five
Saturn upper stages were directed to the surface.” *And yet never a
public published image of any such horrific impacts as they took
place. *How odd, that we should need to conduct such repetitive
science.

Of somewhat further noteworthy interest: *Within the limited DR of a
Nikon Coolpix 5000, darn if Mars doesn’t outshine our physically dark
as coal Selene/moon (exactly as it should).http://www.space.com/scienceastronom...on_030717.html

For some silly reason, out of all the thousands of unobstructed
orbital obtained images with nothing but the very best of film and
optics, and the same goes for all those tens of thousands of surface
EVA obtained frames by way of all sorts of nifty cameras and video,
that not once was there any hint of Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Mercury or
even the extremely vibrant Venus above their physically dark as coal
lunar surface.

Of course by now there are thousands of amateur images, though badly
impaired by way of our polluted and otherwise incoming photon deprived
due to our spectrum filtering atmosphere, that which still managed to
show us our Selene/moon along with those other items as unavoidably
getting into the same FOV(frame of view). *Go far enough south, even
down-under south of our equator and you can’t but help getting a good
side by side perspectives of our moon including Sirius in the same
FOV, and of course from orbiting or walking upon our physically dark
moon is next to impossible to so entirely exclude Sirius and
especially those pesky other planets from a few of those images, but
none the less they had managed to do just that.

Sirius A depicted as sufficiently relative to the brightness and color/
hue of other stars, along with the nearly invisible Sirius B of a
false color, although our extremely nearby Selene/moon as clearly
having to be an overexposed or that of an excess photon saturated
simulation is what forces any computer simulated or composite image of
our moon along with Sirius to look ultra white instead of being nearly
as dark as coal. *Of course our NASA has far better simulators that
would be 100% true and fully capable of giving us a complex simulated
image of our moon along with Sirius within the same FOV.

Here’s a wide field of view depicting *the Visible and X-ray images of
our moon and Sirius in the very same FOV.
*http://www.nmm.ac.uk/rog/2008/02/

Of course most any half-baked orbital simulator easily proves that
from orbiting our moon it would have been technically impossible to
entirely avoid getting Sirius and/or a few other items of planets in
the same FOV as our physically dark as coal moon. *But then I suppose
with “the right stuff” almost anything becomes possible.

*~ Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth BG / “Guth Usenet”

On Mar 3, 7:51*am, BradGuth wrote: Were there good enough reasons to sabotage OCO, and/or was Big Energy
simply capable of putting their usual voodoo hex on such a mission?

Emissions of sweet gas flares in Alberta, Canada.
Coal has certainly been much worse than any typical oil extraction
process for that of our environment and personal health, but you
wouldn’t want your family, pets or any food source within 10 downwind
miles of a typical oil extraction field or major refinery. *In some
instances 100 miles might be considered a safe distance.

“The observation that gas flaring in the Niger Delta is causing acid
rain is also backed by the U.S government's Energy Information
Administration”
*http://www.climatelaw.org/cases/coun...ase-documents/...

“The human health effects of exposure to pollutant emissions from gas
flares will be localized to the vicinity of such flares. Therefore, it
is important to estimate how much gas each flow station in the Delta
flares. Recent data show that the Kolo Creek and Obama flow stations
in Bayelsa State flare, on average, approximately 800,000 m3/day of
gas” (most of which they’d like nothing better than to simply burn off
in order to prevent catastrophic local fireballs that could otherwise
incinerate most everything in sight).

*“Hence, based on the Canadian data, an 800,000 m3/day sweet gas flare
would elevate ambient air levels of particulate matter by 21 ug/m3 at
a distance of 1,325 meters from such flare, and would elevate ambient
levels of benzene by 2.3 ug/m3.”

Some nations have enforcement of flare gas standards to go by.
*“Burning of gas in fields that produce 150,000 m3 or less per month,
or in fields with a gas-petroleum ratio of less than 20 m3/m3”

In other words, they don’t want to see more flare gas (of primarily
methane) combustion greater than 20 m3 per m3 of extracted oil. *They
even attempt to restrict this incineration gauntlet down to the dull
roar of *“60,000 m3 per month for the pilots of flares on
installations at sea”. * Most oil fields and especially offshore
directly utilize 33% of their vented methane in order to produce a
source of local energy, of which does nothing except pass-through
whatever’s helium. *Therefore, per m3 of extracted oil can contribute
its 1% of 30 m3 of associated methane as raw helium, or 0.3 m3 helium
per m3 of crude oil. *That’s 30% helium per volume of crude oil. *In
trying to remain conservative, we might suggest 20% per volume of
crude as helium.

Of course, most all of this artificially created CO2 via oil flare gas
combustion and of our coal industry ventilation of releasing gas and
toxins, including its raw methane, helium and even freed hydrogen
would not have gone unnoticed by those new and greatly improved
science instruments of our spendy and badly needed OCO mission, that
which rather conveniently failed to get deployed. *What we have got
here is a serious Big Energy butt load of damage-control motives, more
than sufficient opportunities and certainly the wherewithal means by
which to foil or eliminate any such public funded science that might
give the rest of us an honest clue as to what we’re doing to our
environment.

“The Canadian Public Health Association has noted over 250 identified
toxins.”

In addition to the mostly artificial release of helium, there’s also a
fair amount of hydrogen set free, that isn’t otherwise properly stored
or consumed, and always good old SO2, CO2 plus NOx for good measure,
and much of everything else you wouldn’t dare put into your body, plus
a few elements heavy enough (such as radon) that’ll sink to the
surface and/or combine with other perfectly acceptable elements so as
to dilute or cloak there existence (acidic rain being one of the most
common, although others such as benz[a]pyrene and dioxin are certainly
worth noting), many of which would have been OCO remote spectrometer
detected and even rather nicely quantified per better than 3 km2
resolution. *In other words, a large enough cache of Porta-Potties
might have been easily detected and their gas output quantified by
those three bore-sighted high-resolution spectrometers. *In the near
future, instead of extrapolating data from spectrophotometry, with
better instruments based upon the x-ray or gamma spectrometer format
could narrow this resolution detail down to a few m2, thus eliminating
all possible doubt as to where each and every m3 of such gas
contributed elements are coming from. *In other words, a Big Energy
executive couldn’t fart without being detected.

If you don’t want to know about the extensive CO2 contributions, then
by all means don’t go to this next link.

CARBON DIOXIDE EQUIVALENTS PER BARREL OF CRUDE
*https://www.edockets.state.mn.us/EFi...Number=5589092
*336472 kg of CO2 per barrel of extracted crude (excluding methane
combustion) seems a tidbit high, but what hell, it’s only our frail
environment and quality of life we’re trashing. *All we have to do is
adjust ourselves to a future of 1000 ppm(0.1%) CO2 and stop our
incessant whining about acid rain, global warming, or the accelerated
erosion of our precious topsoils, plus the inflationary cost of most
everything that’s becoming spendy as hell.

Paint me silly, but I smell rotten eggs. *Too bad as of 4 decades ago
we didn’t establish our robust platform or gateway/outpost of
sufficient robotic/remote science within the ideal orbital location of
Selene L1, offering the best ever whole Earth observations including
the contents of and solar wind interactions with our badly failing
magnetosphere. *Instead we keep wasting time, resources and our hard
earned loot on LEO limited observations that seldom if ever agree with
one another.

*~ Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth BG / “Guth Usenet”

What's technically wrong with our using Selene L1?

~ BG

On Apr 19, 4:44*pm, BradGuth wrote:
Perhaps any platform of science instruments and cameras covering
multiple bandpass spectrums from IR to UV, including TRACE and OCO
instrumentation as interactively parked within Selene L1, as intended
for looking back at Earth or forbid that of our physically dark Selene/
moon, as such would only have been too gosh darn informative and
otherwise truth revealing.

“Lunar Smackdown”
*http://www.airspacemag.com/space-exp...Smackdown.html
*Notice how even though equal or far better resolution of the Apollo
era existed, that never once was such a spacecraft or any kind of
associated “smackdown” recorded and published for public review. *It’s
as though our 100% public funded NASA and DARPA were being stingy

“At 8:13 p.m. EST a 217-second S-IVB auxiliary propulsion system burn
aimed the S-IVB for a lunar target point so accurately that another
burn was not required. The S-IVB/IU impacted the lunar surface at 8:10
p.m. EST on April 14 at a speed of 259 meters per second. Impact was
137.1 kilometers from the Apollo 12 seismometer. The seismic signal
generated by the impact lasted 3 hours 20 minutes and was so strong
that a ground command was necessary to reduce seismometer gain and
keep the recording on the scale. The suprathermal ion detector
experiment, also deployed by the Apollo 12 crew, recorded a jump in
the number of ions from zero at the time of impact up to 2,500 shortly
thereafter and then back to a zero count. Scientists theorized that
ionization had been produced by 6,300 K to 10,300 K (6,000 degrees C
to 10,000 degrees C) temperature generated by the impact or that
particles had reached an altitude of 60 kilometers from the lunar
surface and had been ionized by sunlight.”

LCROSS (impactor 901 kg)
*http://lcross.arc.nasa.gov/mission.htm
*http://lcross.arc.nasa.gov/docs/LCROSS_FS082108.pdf
The Apollo era had multiple items of much greater mass impacting our
moon, many of those having impacted at full velocity of 2.5 km/s, and
yet our supposed “right stuff” never having obtained an image from
nearby orbit or even that via any terrestrial based observations that
should have been way more than sufficient, especially considering
their inert mass and impact velocity.

“Three days later the 30,700-pound (13,925 kilogram) hulk struck the
lunar surface at 5,600 miles per hour (2.5 kilometers per second) some
74 miles (119 kilometers) west-northwest of the Apollo 12 landing
site, releasing energy estimated as equivalent to the explosion of 7.7
tons (7,000 kilograms) of TNT.”

“Several spent lunar module ascent stages and Saturn V S-IVB stages
used in the Apollo missions were deliberately sent to impact the
surface in order to test the effects of these artificial "meteorite"
impacts on the seismometers. In all, four lunar modules and five
Saturn upper stages were directed to the surface.” *And yet never a
public published image of any such horrific impacts as they took
place. *How odd, that we should need to conduct such repetitive
science.

Of somewhat further noteworthy interest: *Within the limited DR of a
Nikon Coolpix 5000, darn if Mars doesn’t outshine our physically dark
as coal Selene/moon (exactly as it should).http://www.space.com/scienceastronom...on_030717.html

For some silly reason, out of all the thousands of unobstructed
orbital obtained images with nothing but the very best of film and
optics, and the same goes for all those tens of thousands of surface
EVA obtained frames by way of all sorts of nifty cameras and video,
that not once was there any hint of Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Mercury or
even the extremely vibrant Venus above their physically dark as coal
lunar surface.

Of course by now there are thousands of amateur images, though badly
impaired by way of our polluted and otherwise incoming photon deprived
due to our spectrum filtering atmosphere, that which still managed to
show us our Selene/moon along with those other items as unavoidably
getting into the same FOV(frame of view). *Go far enough south, even
down-under south of our equator and you can’t but help getting a good
side by side perspectives of our moon including Sirius in the same
FOV, and of course from orbiting or walking upon our physically dark
moon is next to impossible to so entirely exclude Sirius and
especially those pesky other planets from a few of those images, but
none the less they had managed to do just that.

Sirius A depicted as sufficiently relative to the brightness and color/
hue of other stars, along with the nearly invisible Sirius B of a
false color, although our extremely nearby Selene/moon as clearly
having to be an overexposed or that of an excess photon saturated
simulation is what forces any computer simulated or composite image of
our moon along with Sirius to look ultra white instead of being nearly
as dark as coal. *Of course our NASA has far better simulators that
would be 100% true and fully capable of giving us a complex simulated
image of our moon along with Sirius within the same FOV.

Here’s a wide field of view depicting *the Visible and X-ray images of
our moon and Sirius in the very same FOV.
*http://www.nmm.ac.uk/rog/2008/02/

Of course most any half-baked orbital simulator easily proves that
from orbiting our moon it would have been technically impossible to
entirely avoid getting Sirius and/or a few other items of planets in
the same FOV as our physically dark as coal moon. *But then I suppose
with “the right stuff” almost anything becomes possible.

*~ Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth BG / “Guth Usenet”

On Mar 3, 7:51*am, BradGuth wrote:

Were there good enough reasons to sabotage OCO, and/or was Big Energy
simply capable of putting their usual voodoo hex on such a mission?

Emissions of sweet gas flares in Alberta, Canada.
Coal has certainly been much worse than any typical oil extraction
process for that of our environment and personal health, but you
wouldn’t want your family, pets or any food source within 10 downwind
miles of a typical oil extraction field or major refinery. *In some
instances 100 miles might be considered a safe distance.

“The observation that gas flaring in the Niger Delta is causing acid
rain is also backed by the U.S government's Energy Information
Administration”
*http://www.climatelaw.org/cases/coun...ase-documents/...

“The human health effects of exposure to pollutant emissions from gas
flares will be localized to the vicinity of such flares. Therefore, it
is important to estimate how much gas each flow station in the Delta
flares. Recent data show that the Kolo Creek and Obama flow stations
in Bayelsa State flare, on average, approximately 800,000 m3/day of
gas” (most of which they’d like nothing better than to simply burn off
in order to prevent catastrophic local fireballs that could otherwise
incinerate most everything in sight).

*“Hence, based on the Canadian data, an 800,000 m3/day sweet gas flare
would elevate ambient air levels of particulate matter by 21 ug/m3 at
a distance of 1,325 meters from such flare, and would elevate ambient
levels of benzene by 2.3 ug/m3.”

Some nations have enforcement of flare gas standards to go by.
*“Burning of gas in fields that produce 150,000 m3 or less per month,
or in fields with a gas-petroleum ratio of less than 20 m3/m3”

In other words, they don’t want to see more flare gas (of primarily
methane) combustion greater than 20 m3 per m3 of extracted oil. *They
even attempt to restrict this incineration gauntlet down to the dull
roar of *“60,000 m3 per month for the pilots of flares on
installations at sea”. * Most oil fields and especially offshore
directly utilize 33% of their vented methane in order to produce a
source of local energy, of which does nothing except pass-through
whatever’s helium. *Therefore, per m3 of extracted oil can contribute
its 1% of 30 m3 of associated methane as raw helium, or 0.3 m3 helium
per m3 of crude oil. *That’s 30% helium per volume of crude oil. *In
trying to remain conservative, we might suggest 20% per volume of
crude as helium.

Of course, most all of this artificially created CO2 via oil flare gas
combustion and of our coal industry ventilation of releasing gas and
toxins, including its raw methane, helium and even freed hydrogen
would not have gone unnoticed by those new and greatly improved
science instruments of our spendy and badly needed OCO mission, that
which rather conveniently failed to get deployed. *What we have got
here is a serious Big Energy butt load of damage-control motives, more
than sufficient opportunities and certainly the wherewithal means by
which to foil or eliminate any such public funded science that might
give the rest of us an honest clue as to what we’re doing to our
environment.

“The Canadian Public Health Association has noted over 250 identified
toxins.”

In addition to the mostly artificial release of helium, there’s also a
fair amount of hydrogen set free, that isn’t otherwise properly stored
or consumed, and always good old SO2, CO2 plus NOx for good measure,
and much of everything else you wouldn’t dare put into your body, plus
a few elements heavy enough (such as radon) that’ll sink to the
surface and/or combine with other perfectly acceptable elements so as
to dilute or cloak there existence (acidic rain being one of the most
common, although others such as benz[a]pyrene and dioxin are certainly
worth noting), many of which would have been OCO remote spectrometer
detected and even rather nicely quantified per better than 3 km2
resolution. *In other words, a large enough cache of Porta-Potties
might have been easily detected and their gas output quantified by
those three bore-sighted high-resolution spectrometers. *In the near
future,

...

read more »

"BradGuth" wrote in message
...
What's technically wrong with our using Selene L1?

~ BG

You are

On Apr 25, 9:04*pm, "hanson" wrote:
"BradGuth" wrote in message

...
What's technically wrong with our using Selene L1?

*~ BG

You are

That's hardly any basis of physics or science. Are you talking
reasons of witchcraft or voodoo?

~ BG

On Apr 19, 4:44*pm, BradGuth wrote:
Perhaps any platform of science instruments and cameras covering
multiple bandpass spectrums from IR to UV, including TRACE and OCO
instrumentation as interactively parked within Selene L1, as intended
for looking back at Earth or forbid that of our physically dark Selene/
moon, as such would only have been too gosh darn informative and
otherwise truth revealing.

“Lunar Smackdown”
*http://www.airspacemag.com/space-exp...Smackdown.html
*Notice how even though equal or far better resolution of the Apollo
era existed, that never once was such a spacecraft or any kind of
associated “smackdown” recorded and published for public review. *It’s
as though our 100% public funded NASA and DARPA were being stingy

“At 8:13 p.m. EST a 217-second S-IVB auxiliary propulsion system burn
aimed the S-IVB for a lunar target point so accurately that another
burn was not required. The S-IVB/IU impacted the lunar surface at 8:10
p.m. EST on April 14 at a speed of 259 meters per second. Impact was
137.1 kilometers from the Apollo 12 seismometer. The seismic signal
generated by the impact lasted 3 hours 20 minutes and was so strong
that a ground command was necessary to reduce seismometer gain and
keep the recording on the scale. The suprathermal ion detector
experiment, also deployed by the Apollo 12 crew, recorded a jump in
the number of ions from zero at the time of impact up to 2,500 shortly
thereafter and then back to a zero count. Scientists theorized that
ionization had been produced by 6,300 K to 10,300 K (6,000 degrees C
to 10,000 degrees C) temperature generated by the impact or that
particles had reached an altitude of 60 kilometers from the lunar
surface and had been ionized by sunlight.”

LCROSS (impactor 901 kg)
*http://lcross.arc.nasa.gov/mission.htm
*http://lcross.arc.nasa.gov/docs/LCROSS_FS082108.pdf
The Apollo era had multiple items of much greater mass impacting our
moon, many of those having impacted at full velocity of 2.5 km/s, and
yet our supposed “right stuff” never having obtained an image from
nearby orbit or even that via any terrestrial based observations that
should have been way more than sufficient, especially considering
their inert mass and impact velocity.

“Three days later the 30,700-pound (13,925 kilogram) hulk struck the
lunar surface at 5,600 miles per hour (2.5 kilometers per second) some
74 miles (119 kilometers) west-northwest of the Apollo 12 landing
site, releasing energy estimated as equivalent to the explosion of 7.7
tons (7,000 kilograms) of TNT.”

“Several spent lunar module ascent stages and Saturn V S-IVB stages
used in the Apollo missions were deliberately sent to impact the
surface in order to test the effects of these artificial "meteorite"
impacts on the seismometers. In all, four lunar modules and five
Saturn upper stages were directed to the surface.” *And yet never a
public published image of any such horrific impacts as they took
place. *How odd, that we should need to conduct such repetitive
science.

Of somewhat further noteworthy interest: *Within the limited DR of a
Nikon Coolpix 5000, darn if Mars doesn’t outshine our physically dark
as coal Selene/moon (exactly as it should).http://www.space.com/scienceastronom...on_030717.html

For some silly reason, out of all the thousands of unobstructed
orbital obtained images with nothing but the very best of film and
optics, and the same goes for all those tens of thousands of surface
EVA obtained frames by way of all sorts of nifty cameras and video,
that not once was there any hint of Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Mercury or
even the extremely vibrant Venus above their physically dark as coal
lunar surface.

Of course by now there are thousands of amateur images, though badly
impaired by way of our polluted and otherwise incoming photon deprived
due to our spectrum filtering atmosphere, that which still managed to
show us our Selene/moon along with those other items as unavoidably
getting into the same FOV(frame of view). *Go far enough south, even
down-under south of our equator and you can’t but help getting a good
side by side perspectives of our moon including Sirius in the same
FOV, and of course from orbiting or walking upon our physically dark
moon is next to impossible to so entirely exclude Sirius and
especially those pesky other planets from a few of those images, but
none the less they had managed to do just that.

Sirius A depicted as sufficiently relative to the brightness and color/
hue of other stars, along with the nearly invisible Sirius B of a
false color, although our extremely nearby Selene/moon as clearly
having to be an overexposed or that of an excess photon saturated
simulation is what forces any computer simulated or composite image of
our moon along with Sirius to look ultra white instead of being nearly
as dark as coal. *Of course our NASA has far better simulators that
would be 100% true and fully capable of giving us a complex simulated
image of our moon along with Sirius within the same FOV.

Here’s a wide field of view depicting *the Visible and X-ray images of
our moon and Sirius in the very same FOV.
*http://www.nmm.ac.uk/rog/2008/02/

Of course most any half-baked orbital simulator easily proves that
from orbiting our moon it would have been technically impossible to
entirely avoid getting Sirius and/or a few other items of planets in
the same FOV as our physically dark as coal moon. *But then I suppose
with “the right stuff” almost anything becomes possible.

*~ Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth BG / “Guth Usenet”

Where's all the supposed space station and gateway expertise?

Where's the pro Clarke Station crowd?

Where's the Boeing OASIS team?

Where's the DARPA Apollo expertise?

Where's the lunar space elevator support?

Earlier Google Groups was in the toilet. Oddly, it seems my “Guth
Usenet” account was still working like a charm, and meanwhile the
regular public Google Groups version of Usenet/newsgroups has gotten
selectively nailed shut and the lights turned out, as though my stuff
is getting stealth moderated and/or banished to death, though
everything else has been working quite normally for whatever insider
spooks and moles such as rabbi Saul Levy, Hagar and our bogus clown
“hanson” (aka MI5/NSA/CIA borg) care to contribute. Perhaps by way of
my having to entirely repost this topic from scratch will eventually
do the trick, and if not we’ll have to stick with using my “Guth-
Usenet”.
http://groups.google.com/group/guth-usenet?hl=en

~ BG

"BradGuth" , in his Senile/Selene fixation wrote:
BradGuth talked to himself & wrote:
Selene L1, as such would only have been too gosh darn informative
and otherwise truth revealing... “Lunar Smackdown”

hanson wrote:
So, WHICH & WHOSE "truth" is it that you are looking for, Brad?
If you know the "truth" then you don't have to look for it, n'est pas?
And if you do NOT know where and what the truth is then how do
you know what and where to look for?... ahahaha... AHAHAHA...

Brad wrote:
Where's all the supposed space station and gateway expertise?

hanson wrote:
.... ahahaha... it's obviously NOT with and not in you. Buy a $20M
14 day space trip to there... and get your expertise and then
you can stop whining. Your crying here is useless, Brad

Brad wrote:
Where's the pro Clarke Station crowd?

hanson wrote:
Maybe there is little to none for it. Except you being the only
residue for it... BUT... a non-paying one & hence useless... ahaha...

Brad wrote:
Where's the Boeing OASIS team?

hanson wrote:
Why don't you ask the source, Boeing, instead of whining here?
.... ahaha..

Brad wrote:
Where's the DARPA Apollo expertise?

hanson wrote:
Why don't you officially complain to "DARPA Apollo" and
explain to them for what excruciatingly important reason
they must resurrect 40 year old technology?.... ahahaha...

Brad wrote:
Where's the lunar space elevator support?

hanson wrote:
Cough up the money for it, and there will be plenty support.
But your whining on the Usenet is not the best place to
pass your collection hat around. I wish you luck though.

Brad wrote:
Perhaps by way of my having to entirely repost this topic from scratch
will eventually do the trick, and if not we’ll have to stick with using my
“Guth-
Usenet”. http://groups.google.com/group/guth-usenet?hl=en
~ BG

hanson wrote:
Brad, yup, that's your MO, motto and the inscription on your urn:
=== "For Brad Guth life was a bitch and then he died" ====

Brad wrote:
Earlier Google Groups was in the toilet. Oddly, it seems my “Guth
Usenet” account was still working like a charm, and meanwhile the
regular public Google Groups version of Usenet/newsgroups has gotten
selectively nailed shut and the lights turned out, as though my stuff
is getting stealth moderated and/or banished to death, though
everything else has been working quite normally for whatever insider
spooks and moles such as rabbi Saul Levy, Hagar and our bogus clown
“hanson” (aka MI5/NSA/CIA borg) care to contribute.

hanson wrote:
Brad, the only "toilet" is in your head where you "toil" and toil over
your own crap.... and make it worthwhile for all the spooks & moles
to contribute laughs to the Usenet and clown with you, like does
yours truly,
“hanson” (aka MI5/NSA/CIA borg) ... ahahahaha... HAHAHAHA..

On Apr 29, 9:08*pm, BradGuth wrote:
On Apr 19, 4:44*pm, BradGuth wrote:



Perhaps any platform of science instruments and cameras covering
multiple bandpass spectrums from IR to UV, including TRACE and OCO
instrumentation as interactively parked within Selene L1, as intended
for looking back at Earth or forbid that of our physically dark Selene/
moon, as such would only have been too gosh darn informative and
otherwise truth revealing.

“Lunar Smackdown”
*http://www.airspacemag.com/space-exp...Smackdown.html
*Notice how even though equal or far better resolution of the Apollo
era existed, that never once was such a spacecraft or any kind of
associated “smackdown” recorded and published for public review. *It’s
as though our 100% public funded NASA and DARPA were being stingy

“At 8:13 p.m. EST a 217-second S-IVB auxiliary propulsion system burn
aimed the S-IVB for a lunar target point so accurately that another
burn was not required. The S-IVB/IU impacted the lunar surface at 8:10
p.m. EST on April 14 at a speed of 259 meters per second. Impact was
137.1 kilometers from the Apollo 12 seismometer. The seismic signal
generated by the impact lasted 3 hours 20 minutes and was so strong
that a ground command was necessary to reduce seismometer gain and
keep the recording on the scale. The suprathermal ion detector
experiment, also deployed by the Apollo 12 crew, recorded a jump in
the number of ions from zero at the time of impact up to 2,500 shortly
thereafter and then back to a zero count. Scientists theorized that
ionization had been produced by 6,300 K to 10,300 K (6,000 degrees C
to 10,000 degrees C) temperature generated by the impact or that
particles had reached an altitude of 60 kilometers from the lunar
surface and had been ionized by sunlight.”

LCROSS (impactor 901 kg)
*http://lcross.arc.nasa.gov/mission.htm
*http://lcross.arc.nasa.gov/docs/LCROSS_FS082108.pdf
The Apollo era had multiple items of much greater mass impacting our
moon, many of those having impacted at full velocity of 2.5 km/s, and
yet our supposed “right stuff” never having obtained an image from
nearby orbit or even that via any terrestrial based observations that
should have been way more than sufficient, especially considering
their inert mass and impact velocity.

“Three days later the 30,700-pound (13,925 kilogram) hulk struck the
lunar surface at 5,600 miles per hour (2.5 kilometers per second) some
74 miles (119 kilometers) west-northwest of the Apollo 12 landing
site, releasing energy estimated as equivalent to the explosion of 7.7
tons (7,000 kilograms) of TNT.”

“Several spent lunar module ascent stages and Saturn V S-IVB stages
used in the Apollo missions were deliberately sent to impact the
surface in order to test the effects of these artificial "meteorite"
impacts on the seismometers. In all, four lunar modules and five
Saturn upper stages were directed to the surface.” *And yet never a
public published image of any such horrific impacts as they took
place. *How odd, that we should need to conduct such repetitive
science.

Of somewhat further noteworthy interest: *Within the limited DR of a
Nikon Coolpix 5000, darn if Mars doesn’t outshine our physically dark
as coal Selene/moon (exactly as it should).http://www.space.com/scienceastronom...on_030717.html

For some silly reason, out of all the thousands of unobstructed
orbital obtained images with nothing but the very best of film and
optics, and the same goes for all those tens of thousands of surface
EVA obtained frames by way of all sorts of nifty cameras and video,
that not once was there any hint of Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Mercury or
even the extremely vibrant Venus above their physically dark as coal
lunar surface.

Of course by now there are thousands of amateur images, though badly
impaired by way of our polluted and otherwise incoming photon deprived
due to our spectrum filtering atmosphere, that which still managed to
show us our Selene/moon along with those other items as unavoidably
getting into the same FOV(frame of view). *Go far enough south, even
down-under south of our equator and you can’t but help getting a good
side by side perspectives of our moon including Sirius in the same
FOV, and of course from orbiting or walking upon our physically dark
moon is next to impossible to so entirely exclude Sirius and
especially those pesky other planets from a few of those images, but
none the less they had managed to do just that.

Sirius A depicted as sufficiently relative to the brightness and color/
hue of other stars, along with the nearly invisible Sirius B of a
false color, although our extremely nearby Selene/moon as clearly
having to be an overexposed or that of an excess photon saturated
simulation is what forces any computer simulated or composite image of
our moon along with Sirius to look ultra white instead of being nearly
as dark as coal. *Of course our NASA has far better simulators that
would be 100% true and fully capable of giving us a complex simulated
image of our moon along with Sirius within the same FOV.

Here’s a wide field of view depicting *the Visible and X-ray images of
our moon and Sirius in the very same FOV.
*http://www.nmm.ac.uk/rog/2008/02/

Of course most any half-baked orbital simulator easily proves that
from orbiting our moon it would have been technically impossible to
entirely avoid getting Sirius and/or a few other items of planets in
the same FOV as our physically dark as coal moon. *But then I suppose
with “the right stuff” almost anything becomes possible.

*~ Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth BG / “Guth Usenet”

Where's all the supposed space station and gateway expertise?

Where's the pro Clarke Station crowd?

Where's the Boeing OASIS team?

Where's the DARPA Apollo expertise?

Where's the lunar space elevator support?

Earlier Google Groups was in the toilet. *Oddly, it seems my “Guth
Usenet” account was still working like a charm, and meanwhile the
regular public Google Groups version of Usenet/newsgroups has gotten
selectively nailed shut and the lights turned out, as though my stuff
is getting stealth moderated and/or banished to death, though
everything else has been working quite normally for whatever insider
spooks and moles such as rabbi Saul Levy, Hagar and our bogus clown
“hanson” (aka MI5/NSA/CIA borg) care to contribute. *Perhaps by way of
my having to entirely repost this topic from scratch will eventually
do the trick, and if not we’ll have to stick with using my “Guth-
Usenet”.
*http://groups.google.com/group/guth-usenet?hl=en

*~ BG

Yet another good reason for our DARPA and NASA to further avoid all
things related to our Selene/Moon L1.

On May 3, 9:19 am, Yousuf Khan wrote:
I guess there's no longer any need to humor an ignoramus former
President anymore. :-)
Yousuf Khan
NASA may abandon plans for moon base - space - 29 April 2009 - New Scientist

http://www.newscientist.com/article/...andon-plans-fo...

They may also have to abandon plans for keeping their lights turned
on, and all of that fancy toilet paper in those public funded think-
tank stalls.

One way or another, BHO has to lose 10% overhead across the board per
year after year, at least until some of those DARPA and NASA/Apollo
cows come home, and lo and behold, seems we all pretty much know darn
good enough that those public funded cows are never coming home from
our physically dark Selene/moon, or from any other mutually
perpetrated cold-war era. On the other hand, if there were any more
lies begetting lies in WDC, we’d have our very own artificial black
hole, and thereby our national unemployment and energy problems would
be over.

No wonder that nappy dark hair of BHO is prematurely turning gray
before our eyes, as our SEC approved Ponzi schemes are still turning
trick after trick as they fondle his private parts. Meanwhile, China
and India are about to take the global lead in most of everything that
matters. Way to go republicans and faith-based puppet masters, for
having made this nation into a no win situation for all but the truly
rich and powerful that get to win no matters what they screw up.

Are we republican faith-based screwed, or what?
~ BG

Perhaps radiation from coal is a fun kind of good thing for
terrestrial DNA.

Our Selene/moon L1 would quite frankly tell us too much, and certainly
sharing more objective environmental information than Big Energy would
care to ever see happen.

Besides losing 10100 kg/sec of our helium from coal and most of
everything else that comes into our frail environment via natural and
artificial means out of the ground, and quite possibly it's even worth
as great as a tonne/sec for an all-inclusive tally of He and H2 that's
getting solar wind blown away. However, in addition we should also
quantify upon the added dosage of radiation that's obtained mostly
from coal, that's by no means going away.

~ BG


On Apr 19, 4:56*pm, BradGuth wrote:
Yet another nice try by those in perpetual AGW denial or bust, but
none the less there’s still no celestial GW cigar for James Croll
either, and Milankovitch isn’t exactly doing much better.

According to the Milankovitch cycles, a +.1% change in the 1380 w/m2
average solar influx = 1.12 K average surface temperature increase (an
impressive 0.39% maximum thermal shift). *Which is to say that
whatever affects the orbital eccentricity of Earth (such as Jupiter
and Saturn), has in fact measurably affected the average terrestrial
temperature, just as the human industrial and private impacts upon our
environment having measurably affected the atmospheric thinning,
albedo dimming and subsequent average surface temperature.

Oddly the most local of orbital eccentricity influences comes from our
Selene/moon and most certainly next getting contributed from that of a
nearby Venus alignment that seems in of itself highly tidal locked, in
that the same face of Venus is shown to us upon each and every 19
month alignment cycle, compounded worse yet whenever a combined lunar
plus Venus alignment takes place should nearly exceed the +/- 0.05%
solar influx shift, though only for a very short period of time as for
having influenced our briefly distorted terrestrial orbit about our
mostly passive sun.

Once again and again, if only we had a sufficient platform of our
science instruments operating from within the efficient orbital
location of our Selene/moon L1, as could have been quite easily and
affordably established as of four decades ago, and greatly improved
upon ever since.

The truly big thermal shift of thawing us out from the very last ice-
age this planet w/moon is ever going to see, started as of 11,711
years ago (+/- 1 yr). *Before then is gets more than a little weird,
as these pesky ice-ages and subsequent thaw cycles occurred more and
more frequently, therefore making it highly unlikely that the
influence of Jupiter and Saturn were all that responsible unless they
were each orbiting closer and a little faster.
*~ BG

On Apr 19, 4:44*pm, BradGuth wrote: Perhaps any platform of science instruments and cameras covering
multiple bandpass spectrums from IR to UV, including TRACE and OCO
instrumentation as interactively parked within Selene L1, as intended
for looking back at Earth or forbid that of our physically dark Selene/
moon, as such would only have been too gosh darn informative and
otherwise truth revealing.

“Lunar Smackdown”
*http://www.airspacemag.com/space-exp...Smackdown.html
*Notice how even though equal or far better resolution of the Apollo
era existed, that never once was such a spacecraft or any kind of
associated “smackdown” recorded and published for public review. *It’s
as though our 100% public funded NASA and DARPA were being stingy

“At 8:13 p.m. EST a 217-second S-IVB auxiliary propulsion system burn
aimed the S-IVB for a lunar target point so accurately that another
burn was not required. The S-IVB/IU impacted the lunar surface at 8:10
p.m. EST on April 14 at a speed of 259 meters per second. Impact was
137.1 kilometers from the Apollo 12 seismometer. The seismic signal
generated by the impact lasted 3 hours 20 minutes and was so strong
that a ground command was necessary to reduce seismometer gain and
keep the recording on the scale. The suprathermal ion detector
experiment, also deployed by the Apollo 12 crew, recorded a jump in
the number of ions from zero at the time of impact up to 2,500 shortly
thereafter and then back to a zero count. Scientists theorized that
ionization had been produced by 6,300 K to 10,300 K (6,000 degrees C
to 10,000 degrees C) temperature generated by the impact or that
particles had reached an altitude of 60 kilometers from the lunar
surface and had been ionized by sunlight.”

LCROSS (impactor 901 kg)
*http://lcross.arc.nasa.gov/mission.htm
*http://lcross.arc.nasa.gov/docs/LCROSS_FS082108.pdf
The Apollo era had multiple items of much greater mass impacting our
moon, many of those having impacted at full velocity of 2.5 km/s, and
yet our supposed “right stuff” never having obtained an image from
nearby orbit or even that via any terrestrial based observations that
should have been way more than sufficient, especially considering
their inert mass and impact velocity.

“Three days later the 30,700-pound (13,925 kilogram) hulk struck the
lunar surface at 5,600 miles per hour (2.5 kilometers per second) some
74 miles (119 kilometers) west-northwest of the Apollo 12 landing
site, releasing energy estimated as equivalent to the explosion of 7.7
tons (7,000 kilograms) of TNT.”

“Several spent lunar module ascent stages and Saturn V S-IVB stages
used in the Apollo missions were deliberately sent to impact the
surface in order to test the effects of these artificial "meteorite"
impacts on the seismometers. In all, four lunar modules and five
Saturn upper stages were directed to the surface.” *And yet never a
public published image of any such horrific impacts as they took
place. *How odd, that we should need to conduct such repetitive
science.

Of somewhat further noteworthy interest: *Within the limited DR of a
Nikon Coolpix 5000, darn if Mars doesn’t outshine our physically dark
as coal Selene/moon (exactly as it should).http://www.space.com/scienceastronom...on_030717.html

For some silly reason, out of all the thousands of unobstructed
orbital obtained images with nothing but the very best of film and
optics, and the same goes for all those tens of thousands of surface
EVA obtained frames by way of all sorts of nifty cameras and video,
that not once was there any hint of Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Mercury or
even the extremely vibrant Venus above their physically dark as coal
lunar surface.

Of course by now there are thousands of amateur images, though badly
impaired by way of our polluted and otherwise incoming photon deprived
due to our spectrum filtering atmosphere, that which still managed to
show us our Selene/moon along with those other items as unavoidably
getting into the same FOV(frame of view). *Go far enough south, even
down-under south of our equator and you can’t but help getting a good
side by side perspectives of our moon including Sirius in the same
FOV, and of course from orbiting or walking upon our physically dark
moon is next to impossible to so entirely exclude Sirius and
especially those pesky other planets from a few of those images, but
none the less they had managed to do just that.

Sirius A depicted as sufficiently relative to the brightness and color/
hue of other stars, along with the nearly invisible Sirius B of a
false color, although our extremely nearby Selene/moon as clearly
having to be an overexposed or that of an excess photon saturated
simulation is what forces any computer simulated or composite image of
our moon along with Sirius to look ultra white instead of being nearly
as dark as coal. *Of course our NASA has far better simulators that
would be 100% true and fully capable of giving us a complex simulated
image of our moon along with Sirius within the same FOV.

Here’s a wide field of view depicting *the Visible and X-ray images of
our moon and Sirius in the very same FOV.
*http://www.nmm.ac.uk/rog/2008/02/

Of course most any half-baked orbital simulator easily proves that
from orbiting our moon it would have been technically impossible to
entirely avoid getting Sirius and/or a few other items of planets in
the same FOV as our physically dark as coal moon. *But then I suppose
with “the right stuff” almost anything becomes possible.

*~ Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth BG / “Guth Usenet”

On Mar 3, 7:51*am, BradGuth wrote: Were there good enough reasons to sabotage OCO, and/or was Big Energy
simply capable of putting their usual voodoo hex on such a mission?

Emissions of sweet gas flares in Alberta, Canada.
Coal has certainly been much worse than any typical oil extraction
process for that of our environment and personal health, but you
wouldn’t want your family, pets or any food source within 10 downwind
miles of a typical oil extraction field or major refinery. *In some
instances 100 miles might be considered a safe distance.

“The observation that gas flaring in the Niger Delta is causing acid
rain is also backed by the U.S government's Energy Information
Administration”
*http://www.climatelaw.org/cases/coun...ase-documents/...

“The human health effects of exposure to pollutant emissions from gas
flares will be localized to the vicinity of such flares. Therefore, it
is important to estimate how much gas each flow station in the Delta
flares. Recent data show that the Kolo Creek and Obama flow stations
in Bayelsa State flare, on average, approximately 800,000 m3/day of
gas” (most of which they’d like nothing better than to simply burn off
in order to prevent catastrophic local fireballs that could otherwise
incinerate most everything in sight).

*“Hence, based on the Canadian data, an 800,000 m3/day sweet gas flare
would elevate ambient air levels of particulate matter by 21 ug/m3 at
a distance of 1,325 meters from such flare, and would elevate ambient
levels of benzene by 2.3 ug/m3.”

Some nations have enforcement of flare gas standards to go by.
*“Burning of gas in fields that produce 150,000 m3 or less per month,
or in fields with a gas-petroleum ratio of less than 20 m3/m3”

In other words, they don’t want to see more flare gas (of primarily
methane) combustion greater than 20 m3 per m3 of extracted oil. *They
even attempt to restrict this incineration gauntlet down to the dull
roar of *“60,000 m3 per month for the pilots of flares on
installations at sea”. * Most oil fields and especially offshore
directly utilize 33% of their vented methane in order to produce a
source of local energy, of which does nothing except pass-through
whatever’s helium. *Therefore, per m3 of extracted oil can contribute
its 1% of 30 m3 of associated methane as raw helium, or 0.3 m3 helium
per m3 of crude oil. *That’s 30% helium per volume of crude oil. *In
trying to remain conservative, we might suggest 20% per volume of
crude as helium.

Of course, most all of this artificially created CO2 via oil flare gas
combustion and of our coal industry ventilation of releasing gas and
toxins, including its raw methane, helium and even freed hydrogen
would not have gone unnoticed by those new and greatly improved
science instruments of our spendy and badly needed OCO mission, that
which rather conveniently failed to get deployed. *What we have got
here is a serious Big Energy butt load of damage-control motives, more
than sufficient opportunities and certainly the wherewithal means by
which to foil or eliminate any such public funded science that might
give the rest of us an honest clue as to what we’re doing to our
environment.

“The Canadian Public Health Association has noted over 250 identified
toxins.”

In addition to the mostly artificial release of helium, there’s also a
fair amount of hydrogen set free, that isn’t otherwise properly stored
or consumed, and always good old SO2, CO2 plus NOx for good measure,
and much of everything else you wouldn’t dare put into your body, plus
a few elements heavy enough (such as radon) that’ll sink to the
surface and/or combine with other perfectly acceptable elements so as
to dilute or cloak there existence (acidic rain being one of the most
common, although others such as benz[a]pyrene and dioxin are certainly
worth noting), many of which would have been OCO remote spectrometer
detected and even rather nicely quantified per better than 3 km2
resolution. *In other words, a large enough cache of Porta-Potties
might have been easily detected and their gas output quantified by
those three bore-sighted high-resolution spectrometers. *In the near
future, instead of extrapolating data from spectrophotometry, with
better instruments based upon the x-ray or gamma spectrometer format
could narrow this resolution detail down to a few m2, thus eliminating
all possible doubt as to where each and every m3 of such gas
contributed elements are coming from. *In other words, a Big Energy
executive couldn’t fart without being detected.

If you don’t want to know about the extensive CO2 contributions, then
by all means don’t go to this next link.

CARBON DIOXIDE EQUIVALENTS PER BARREL OF CRUDE
*https://www.edockets.state.mn.us/EFi...Number=5589092
*336472 kg of CO2 per barrel of extracted crude (excluding methane
combustion) seems a tidbit high, but what hell, it’s only our frail
environment and quality of life we’re trashing. *All we have to do is
adjust ourselves to a future of 1000 ppm(0.1%) CO2 and stop our
incessant whining about acid rain, global warming, or the accelerated
erosion of our precious topsoils, plus the inflationary cost of most
everything that’s becoming spendy as hell.

Paint me silly, but I smell rotten eggs. *Too bad as of 4 decades ago
we didn’t establish our robust platform or gateway/outpost of
sufficient robotic/remote science within the ideal orbital location of
Selene L1, offering the best ever whole Earth observations including
the contents of and solar wind interactions with our badly failing
magnetosphere. *Instead we keep wasting time, resources and our hard
earned loot on LEO limited observations that seldom if ever agree with
one another.

*~ Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth BG / “Guth Usenet”