How do you even begin to set this right !

I have never known at what level readers here understand timekeeping
and the great planetary cycles that supply the principles even though
I know only too well there are guys here who work on ephemerides as a
job.Paring back timekeeping to basics still retain links to external
references even if they are used improperly and it is possible to
discard all the other novelties that attach themselves to pure
timekeeping outside the core principles of AM/PM in tandem with Lat/
Long.The bundling of these inviolate designations into a single Ra/Dec
entity is horrendous and moreso today with the utterly stupid idea
that the Earth's rotation is linked directly with stellar circumpolar
motion and necessity for 'leap seconds'.You can apply individual leap
seconds but the cause is utter nonsense hence the urgency to sort out
the issues once and for all.

Having a social standing below that of a criminal,I still have to plow
ahead as the consequences of not adopting the proper
principles,references and conclusions is unthinkable.

Here is what a telescope would look like tracking a star in stellar
circumpolar motion in that it does not follow the daily rotation of a
round Earth as all telescopes do not display variations in rotational
speeds which occur at all latitudes between equator and poles -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_hYnwtEfBU

What is equally awful is bundling the daily and orbital motions of the
Earth to a common axis based on right ascension as it is blocking the
ability to apply the natural annual change in the polar coordinates
to the central Sun in order to retain axial precession.Seen from
Mars,and it is quite capable today,the Earth's polar coordinates will
be seen to turn through the circle of illumination and to the central
Sun just like this -

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?...ion.svg&page=1

Do people want to be paid under false pretenses or do they really wish
to destroy astronomy for no good reason ?.Even I accept that you can
apply 'leap seconds' for convenience but the reasons using VLBI are
merely worthless versions of the late 17 th century conclusion that
got everyone into a mess.

I often imagined there were brilliant people out there with heart and
intelligence even though I have been to the research institutions and
the empirical conferences where I have seen a lot of dullness of mind
and somehow knew they couldn't change,more commentators and
spectators ticking all the right boxes rather then innovators.Looking
at all the 'experts' here who probably do well financially
concentrating on things like ephemerides while having little sense of
their relevance as timekeeping conveniences or their limitations while
for me it is just a walk in the park yet my standing is below any
person,it may not be nice but it is fine for a Christian as that is at
the core of all faith.

On Oct 26, 3:19*pm, oriel36 wrote:
retain links to external
references even if they are used improperly

The direction, say, from the Sun to the Andromeda Galaxy can still be
used as a direction even from the moving Earth. Does "north" stop
being a valid direction when you walk from one place to another?

John Savard

On Oct 27, 6:22*am, Quadibloc wrote:
On Oct 26, 3:19*pm, oriel36 wrote:

retain links to external
references even if they are used improperly

The direction, say, from the Sun to the Andromeda Galaxy can still be
used as a direction even from the moving Earth. Does "north" stop
being a valid direction when you walk from one place to another?

John Savard

Supposedly there are a few stars that hardly if ever move off station
in relationship to us.

On Sat, 27 Oct 2012 06:22:08 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
wrote:
The direction, say, from the Sun to the Andromeda Galaxy can still
be
used as a direction even from the moving Earth. Does "north" stop
being a valid direction when you walk from one place to another?
John Savard

It can become invalid. If you walk to the South Pole, "north" becomes
ambiguous since every (horizontal) direction will be "north". And at
the North Pole, "north" becomes nonexistent since every direction
will be "south" -- you are then already as far "north" as you can
get.

On Oct 27, 10:05*am, Paul Schlyter wrote:
On Sat, 27 Oct 2012 06:22:08 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc

wrote:
The direction, say, from the Sun to the Andromeda Galaxy can still
be
used as a direction even from the moving Earth. Does "north" stop
being a valid direction when you walk from one place to another?
John Savard

It can become invalid. If you walk to the South Pole, "north" becomes
ambiguous since every (horizontal) direction will be "north". And at
the North Pole, "north" becomes nonexistent since every direction
will be "south" -- you are then already as far "north" as you can
get.

What about from the dead center of Earth, where there's no gravity as
well as no east or west?

Outside of our galaxy, what cosmic location offers a valid reference
point as to measure anything from, especially if distance gets
distorted or warped by the SR of velocity?

On Oct 27, 10:05*am, Paul Schlyter wrote:
On Sat, 27 Oct 2012 06:22:08 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc

wrote:
The direction, say, from the Sun to the Andromeda Galaxy can still
be
used as a direction even from the moving Earth. Does "north" stop
being a valid direction when you walk from one place to another?
John Savard

It can become invalid. If you walk to the South Pole, "north" becomes
ambiguous since every (horizontal) direction will be "north". And at
the North Pole, "north" becomes nonexistent since every direction
will be "south" -- you are then already as far "north" as you can
get.

Oh great,you just partly discovered what the geocentric astronomers
knew all along and why you cannot extract the motions of the Earth
from stellar circumpolar motion -

"Suppose person A were on the earth somewhere below the north pole of
the heavens and person B were at the north pole of the heavens. In
that case, to A the pole would appear to be at the zenith, and A would
believe himself to be at the center; to B the earth would appear to be
at the zenith, and B would believe himself to be at the center. Thus,
A's zenith would be B's center, and B's zenith would be A's And
wherever anyone would be, he would believe himself to be at the
center.Therefore, merge these different imaginative pictures so that
the center is the zenith and vice versa.
Thereupon you will see-- through the intellect..that the Universe and
its motion and shape cannot be apprehended. For [the world] will
appear as a wheel in a wheel and a sphere in a sphere-- having its
center and circumference nowhere. . . " Nicolas of Cusa 15th century

Is it such a tremendous issue now that it is out in the open that the
24 hour AM/PM cycle in tandem with the Lat/Long system contains the
information for the Earth's rotation and the Ra/Dec system doesn't ?.

On Oct 27, 11:05*am, Paul Schlyter wrote:

It can become invalid. If you walk to the South Pole, "north" becomes
ambiguous since every (horizontal) direction will be "north". And at
the North Pole, "north" becomes nonexistent since every direction
will be "south" -- you are then already as far "north" as you can
get.

True; there's the old puzzle about shooting a bear.

John Savard

On Oct 27, 1:06*pm, oriel36 wrote:

Thereupon you will see-- through the intellect..that the Universe and
its motion and shape cannot be apprehended. For [the world] will
appear as a wheel in a wheel and a sphere in a sphere-- having its
center and circumference nowhere. . . " Nicolas of Cusa *15th century

Is the human intellect not able to see, *from* Nicolas of Cusa's
scenario, the very thing that invalidates his argument: since each
person imagines himself to be the center, these imaginings are invalid
and irrelevant, and instead we hold the Sun to be the center of the
Solar System with Copernicus, not because anyone lives there, still
less because the people living on the Sun are somehow more wealthy or
powerful than those who live elsewhere, but because the motions of the
heavens become easier to understand when the Sun is taken as the
starting point?

John Savard

"Quadibloc" wrote in message
...

On Oct 27, 11:05 am, Paul Schlyter wrote:

It can become invalid. If you walk to the South Pole, "north" becomes
ambiguous since every (horizontal) direction will be "north". And at
the North Pole, "north" becomes nonexistent since every direction
will be "south" -- you are then already as far "north" as you can
get.

True; there's the old puzzle about shooting a bear.

John Savard
==================================================
Bang! Bullet clips the bear's left ear.
"Gimme that rifle!"
Bang! Bullet clips the bear's right ear.
"RUN!"
Hunter sits down, takes off shoes.
"What are you doing, I said 'Run!'?"
"Putting on my Nikes..."
"What for? You can't outrun a bear!"
"I don't need to outrun the bear, I need to outrun you."

-- This message is brought to you from the keyboard of
Lord Androcles, Zeroth Earl of Medway

On Sat, 27 Oct 2012 16:13:39 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
wrote:
since every person imagines himself to be the center, these
imaginings
are invalid and irrelevant,

That's the so-called egocentric model of the universe.... :-)