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Airspace
Hey everyone.
I am writing a paper on use and strategic significance of Earthspace. Related to that, I was wondering if anyone could explain where (or if) a nation's sovereign airspace ends (regarding altitude). I know that when it comes to how deep under ground something belongs to someone differs worldwide, I'm unsure about the airspace however. If it's determined by a treaty I would very much appreciate it if you could provide a link or any kind of info as I am going to have to quote it and name the source. thanks in advance. cheers |
#2
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Airspace
"Fusion295" wrote in message ... Hey everyone. I am writing a paper on use and strategic significance of Earthspace. Related to that, I was wondering if anyone could explain where (or if) a nation's sovereign airspace ends (regarding altitude). I know that when it comes to how deep under ground something belongs to someone differs worldwide, I'm unsure about the airspace however. If it's determined by a treaty I would very much appreciate it if you could provide a link or any kind of info as I am going to have to quote it and name the source. I'll leave it to you to find your own sources, but I'll try to point you in one possible direction. Historically, the US and the USSR set the precedent. Specifically, the USSR launching Sputnik and the US's reaction, or lack thereof, to the launch. The US specifically did not object to Sputnik "over-flying the US" because that would mean the USSR would be able to do the same when the US launched its first satellite. With much interest on both sides for the potential use of space for military reconnaissance reasons (optical and radio spy satellites), neither side wanted to object to orbital over-flights of their territory. Jeff -- "Take heart amid the deepening gloom that your dog is finally getting enough cheese" - Deteriorata - National Lampoon |
#3
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Airspace
"Fusion295" wrote in message ...
Hey everyone. I am writing a paper on use and strategic significance of Earthspace. Related to that, I was wondering if anyone could explain where (or if) a nation's sovereign airspace ends (regarding altitude). I know that when it comes to how deep under ground something belongs to someone differs worldwide, I'm unsure about the airspace however. Generally this was determined by fiat with Sputnik, if you can orbit, it's no longer sovereign airspace. I'm not sure but I'd probably start looking at the Outer Space Treaty. If it's determined by a treaty I would very much appreciate it if you could provide a link or any kind of info as I am going to have to quote it and name the source. thanks in advance. cheers -- Greg Moore Ask me about lily, an RPI based CMC. |
#4
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Airspace
Fusion295 wrote:
Hey everyone. I am writing a paper on use and strategic significance of Earthspace. Related to that, I was wondering if anyone could explain where (or if) a nation's sovereign airspace ends (regarding altitude). I know that when it comes to how deep under ground something belongs to someone differs worldwide, I'm unsure about the airspace however. This got covered a lot during theoretical legal discussions about space in the 1950s, and it wasn't really settled till after Sputnik 1, when it was decided that space would be treated something like Antarctica; open to all as long as they didn't put nuclear weapons into it. Note the difference between this and the concept of "open seas" where no military force of any type is banned. Reconnaissance sattelites were seen as useful by the major powers early on in the space age, so there was no overt attempt to attack them as they passed over the airspace of other nations, and this was later codified under the SALT II treaty between the US and USSR: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strateg...mitation_Talks If it's determined by a treaty I would very much appreciate it if you could provide a link or any kind of info as I am going to have to quote it and name the source. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outer_space http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_law http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outer_Space_Treaty Should be a good starting point for resources on this subject. Although the US claimed that outer space began at 50 miles altitude, so that it could say some of its early X-15 flights went into space, the generally accepted international boundary of where space begins is now 100 km - 62.137 miles (two of the later X-15 flights did get above that altitude). Pat |
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Jeff Findley wrote:
Historically, the US and the USSR set the precedent. Specifically, the USSR launching Sputnik and the US's reaction, or lack thereof, to the launch. The US specifically did not object to Sputnik "over-flying the US" because that would mean the USSR would be able to do the same when the US launched its first satellite. Not that either side would have had much of a way of destroying a satellite in the early days other than lobbing a nuclear weapon at it... Pat |
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Airspace
Greg D. Moore (Strider) wrote:
Generally this was determined by fiat with Sputnik, if you can orbit, it's no longer sovereign airspace. Which brings up the Air Force 50 mile altitude claim, as that seems pretty low to orbit at even for a single time around..although something like a finned dart full of depleted uranium might be able to go around once. They had a discussion of this he http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/i...showtopic=5633 Pat |
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Airspace
On 12.1.2010. 19:23, Jeff Findley wrote:
Historically, the US and the USSR set the precedent. Specifically, the USSR launching Sputnik and the US's reaction, or lack thereof, to the launch. The US specifically did not object to Sputnik "over-flying the US" because that would mean the USSR would be able to do the same when the US launched its first satellite. I remember hearing this exact thing in a documentary about Sputnis (can't remember the name, it was a while ago). Even tho it seems like a valid reason I don't really buy it I'm not an American, so please don't interpret this as a pretext for starting a flame war. Couldn't the US have just launcehd a satellite into an orbit with such an inclination that it's doesn't pass over the airspace of USSR? Orin |
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On 12.1.2010. 23:19, Pat Flannery wrote:
This got covered a lot during theoretical legal discussions about space in the 1950s, and it wasn't really settled till after Sputnik 1, when it was decided that space would be treated something like Antarctica; open to all as long as they didn't put nuclear weapons into it. Note the difference between this and the concept of "open seas" where no military force of any type is banned. Reconnaissance sattelites were seen as useful by the major powers early on in the space age, so there was no overt attempt to attack them as they passed over the airspace of other nations, and this was later codified under the SALT II treaty between the US and USSR: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strateg...mitation_Talks If it's determined by a treaty I would very much appreciate it if you could provide a link or any kind of info as I am going to have to quote it and name the source. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outer_space http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_law http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outer_Space_Treaty Should be a good starting point for resources on this subject. Thanks for replying Pat. I actually found those links about one cup of coffee after I posted here. And yes, that are a decent starting point. When I started dealing with this particular issue I was trapped in what seemed like a maze on http://www.unoosa.org/ and I felt like a needed a life line. Although the US claimed that outer space began at 50 miles altitude, so that it could say some of its early X-15 flights went into space, the generally accepted international boundary of where space begins is now 100 km - 62.137 miles (two of the later X-15 flights did get above that altitude). The x-15 flights are going to be a nice trivia like addition, thanks for that. As far as the exact lower limit (or lack thereof) of space, I guess I am going to cite some of those named in outer space article on wikipedia Thanks for your input Pat, Greg and Jeff, it was most appreciated. cheers Orin |
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"Fusion295" wrote in message ... Hey everyone. I am writing a paper on use and strategic significance of Earthspace. Related to that, I was wondering if anyone could explain where (or if) a nation's sovereign airspace ends (regarding altitude). I know that when it comes to how deep under ground something belongs to someone differs worldwide, I'm unsure about the airspace however. If it's determined by a treaty I would very much appreciate it if you could provide a link or any kind of info as I am going to have to quote it and name the source. thanks in advance. As far as military policy is concerned, you mentioned strategic, the official policy of the US military is that we have a right to freely operate in space, and anyone that tries to stop us is committing an act of war. I suppose we would honor the same right for other countries. This policy I think makes space a first-come, first-serve sort of affair. An American tradition! Air Force Space Command "The mission of the United States Air Force is to fly, fight and win...in air, space and cyberspace." Air and Space Superiority : With it, joint forces can dominate enemy operations in all dimensions -- land, sea, air and space. http://www.afspc.af.mil/main/welcome.asp cheers |
#10
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Airspace
Fusion295 wrote:
I'm not an American, so please don't interpret this as a pretext for starting a flame war. Couldn't the US have just launcehd a satellite into an orbit with such an inclination that it's doesn't pass over the airspace of USSR? That would be hard to do unless you put it into a low inclination orbit, as anything of over 35 degrees would pass over some part the Soviet Union after a few orbits. The Soviet launch site was north of that latitude, and that meant that anything they launched would end up going over the US fairly often. Since they were a lot more closed society than the US, it was in the interest of the US to do nothing about Sputnik 1, as our future reconnaissance satellites would reveal a lot more about the USSR than their reconsats would reveal about the US. Once the US had set the precedent of letting Sputnik pass overhead without trying any military action against it, the USSR would have a harder time complaining about any US satellites passing over the USSR. The end result was a realization of Eisenhower's "open skies" concept whereby both countries would have allowed unarmed manned reconnaissance aircraft to overfly them at will. That idea didn't sit well with the Soviets at all, as the prelude to Hitler's invasion of the USSR had been incursions into Soviet airspace by German aircraft pinpointing military targets to be destroyed when the invasion began. But reconnaissance satellites seemed a lot less threatening, plus removed the possibility of having pilots from the other side parachuting down out of the sky if their aircraft were shot down or had mechanical problems. In his book "The Heavens and the Earth - a Political History of the Space Age" Walter A. McDougall argued that the US _wanted_ the USSR to orbit the first satellite just so we could set the precedent of not attacking it as it passed overhead, as the use of reconsats by both sides favored the US in the amount of new intelligence information that could be gathered about the USSR over what the Soviets could discover about the US. Pat |
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