Commercial Moonship

On 10/09/2016 5:12 PM, William Mook wrote:
Consider eight external tank sized airframes. Seven are clusted in a hexagonally close packed array, and the eighth is stacked upon the central tank. The seven tanks are filled with 762 metric tons of propellant (117.23 tonnes of hydrogen and 644.77 metric tons of liquid oxygen. The weight of each tank's structure is 34.29 metric tons.

The eighth tank carries 412.14 metric tons of propellant (64.41 metric tons of liquid hydrogen and 348.74 metric tons of liquid oxygen). The tank structure is 18.55 metric tons. The remaining 221.31 metric tons is dedicated to 10 decks. Four passenger cabin decks consist of 28 seats facing radially outward and a central cabin behind those seats. A fifth crew deck consists of 14 seats facing radially outward and a central cabin behind those seats. There are five additional decks with supplies, rocket belts, airlocks, propellant and so forth.

112 passengers and 14 crew members are taken to the moon and they fly to the lunar surface on individual rocket belts 7 times in a week - and return to Earth.

Why?

In article ,
ess says...

On 10/09/2016 5:12 PM, William Mook wrote:
Consider eight external tank sized airframes. Seven are clusted in a hexagonally close packed array, and the eighth is stacked upon the central tank. The seven tanks are filled with 762 metric tons of propellant (117.23 tonnes of hydrogen and 644.77 metric tons of liquid oxygen. The weight of each tank's structure is 34.29 metric tons.

The eighth tank carries 412.14 metric tons of propellant (64.41 metric tons of liquid hydrogen and 348.74 metric tons of liquid oxygen). The tank structure is 18.55 metric tons. The remaining 221.31 metric tons is dedicated to 10 decks. Four passenger cabin decks consist of 28 seats facing radially outward and a central cabin behind those seats. A fifth crew deck consists of 14 seats facing radially outward and a central cabin behind those seats. There are five
additional decks with supplies, rocket belts, airlocks, propellant and so forth.

112 passengers and 14 crew members are taken to the moon and they fly to the lunar surface on individual rocket belts 7 times in a week - and return to Earth.

Why?

Because it's Mook it doesn't have to make any sense.

Jeff
--
All opinions posted by me on Usenet News are mine, and mine alone.
These posts do not reflect the opinions of my family, friends,
employer, or any organization that I am a member of.

Sylvia Else wrote:

On 10/09/2016 5:12 PM, William Mook wrote:
Consider eight external tank sized airframes. Seven are clusted in a hexagonally close packed array, and the eighth is stacked upon the central tank. The seven tanks are filled with 762 metric tons of propellant (117.23 tonnes of hydrogen and 644.77 metric tons of liquid oxygen. The weight of each tank's structure is 34.29 metric tons.

The eighth tank carries 412.14 metric tons of propellant (64.41 metric tons of liquid hydrogen and 348.74 metric tons of liquid oxygen). The tank structure is 18.55 metric tons. The remaining 221.31 metric tons is dedicated to 10 decks. Four passenger cabin decks consist of 28 seats facing radially outward and a central cabin behind those seats. A fifth crew deck consists of 14 seats facing radially outward and a central cabin behind those seats. There are five additional decks with supplies, rocket belts, airlocks, propellant and so forth.

112 passengers and 14 crew members are taken to the moon and they fly to the lunar surface on individual rocket belts 7 times in a week - and return to Earth.


Why?


You're not supposed to ask that. Why, there are X people with $Y
dollars, so obviously if Mook does some arithmetic they'll give it to
him.


--
"Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar
territory."
--G. Behn

On Wednesday, September 28, 2016 at 5:55:45 PM UTC+13, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 10/09/2016 5:12 PM, William Mook wrote:
Consider eight external tank sized airframes. Seven are clusted in a hexagonally close packed array, and the eighth is stacked upon the central tank. The seven tanks are filled with 762 metric tons of propellant (117.23 tonnes of hydrogen and 644.77 metric tons of liquid oxygen. The weight of each tank's structure is 34.29 metric tons.

The eighth tank carries 412.14 metric tons of propellant (64.41 metric tons of liquid hydrogen and 348.74 metric tons of liquid oxygen). The tank structure is 18.55 metric tons. The remaining 221.31 metric tons is dedicated to 10 decks. Four passenger cabin decks consist of 28 seats facing radially outward and a central cabin behind those seats. A fifth crew deck consists of 14 seats facing radially outward and a central cabin behind those seats. There are five additional decks with supplies, rocket belts, airlocks, propellant and so forth.

112 passengers and 14 crew members are taken to the moon and they fly to the lunar surface on individual rocket belts 7 times in a week - and return to Earth.

Why?

For the same reason John Houbolt proposed the Lunar Orbit Rendsvouz for Apollo in 1962 as a way to achieve the goals of a moon landing then with a smaller launcher.

Consider a 652 ton payload leaving Earth and entering Low Lunar Orbit and returning to Earth after expending 412.14 tons of propellant. This takes the vehicle through a delta vee of 4.5 km/sec. Enough to boost it into LLO and back to Earth. This puts 221.31 tonnes in LLO.

Now a rocket belt requires 0.12 tonnes to land a person on the lunar surface and return them to lunar orbit. So, 126 persons land and take off from the lunar surface in this way require 15.1 tons of propellant for the entire crew. 105.84 tons of propellant allows each of 126 persons aboard to land and take off from 7 locations on the moon over the two week period they remain on lunar orbit. 882 sites could be visited over a two week period. This leaves 114.47 allocated for the 126 persons. 908.5 kg per person.

The same payload in LEO boosted to the lunar surface and thence back to Earth must impart a total of 7.7 km/sec to this stage. This means that 532.4 tons of propellant and 29.3 tons of structure are required leaving 88.5 tons of payload. Enough for 80 passenger and crew to visit one site with the same mass per person.

With rocket belt: Up to 882 sites can be visited, 7 sites per person, 126 persons
With single landing: One site is visited, one site for all persons, 80 persons

The rocket belt approach, echoes the wingsuit experience, and Felix Baumgartner, provides a greater range of experience, and gathers more information about the moon more quickly than the single landing single ship approach.

In short, it is a more efficient use of resources and provides a greater flexibility for mission planning and greater value to clients.

On Wednesday, September 28, 2016 at 11:08:48 PM UTC+13, Jeff Findley wrote:
In article ,
ess says...

On 10/09/2016 5:12 PM, William Mook wrote:
Consider eight external tank sized airframes. Seven are clusted in a hexagonally close packed array, and the eighth is stacked upon the central tank. The seven tanks are filled with 762 metric tons of propellant (117.23 tonnes of hydrogen and 644.77 metric tons of liquid oxygen. The weight of each tank's structure is 34.29 metric tons.

The eighth tank carries 412.14 metric tons of propellant (64.41 metric tons of liquid hydrogen and 348.74 metric tons of liquid oxygen). The tank structure is 18.55 metric tons. The remaining 221.31 metric tons is dedicated to 10 decks. Four passenger cabin decks consist of 28 seats facing radially outward and a central cabin behind those seats. A fifth crew deck consists of 14 seats facing radially outward and a central cabin behind those seats. There are five
additional decks with supplies, rocket belts, airlocks, propellant and so forth.

112 passengers and 14 crew members are taken to the moon and they fly to the lunar surface on individual rocket belts 7 times in a week - and return to Earth.

Why?

Because it's Mook it doesn't have to make any sense.

Jeff
--
All opinions posted by me on Usenet News are mine, and mine alone.
These posts do not reflect the opinions of my family, friends,
employer, or any organization that I am a member of.

Don't confabulate your confusion with presumed confusion of others. Things that make no sense to you make no sense to you because you're stupid. Not because others are stupid.

On Thursday, September 29, 2016 at 4:38:46 AM UTC+13, Fred J. McCall wrote:
Sylvia Else wrote:

On 10/09/2016 5:12 PM, William Mook wrote:
Consider eight external tank sized airframes. Seven are clusted in a hexagonally close packed array, and the eighth is stacked upon the central tank. The seven tanks are filled with 762 metric tons of propellant (117.23 tonnes of hydrogen and 644.77 metric tons of liquid oxygen. The weight of each tank's structure is 34.29 metric tons.

The eighth tank carries 412.14 metric tons of propellant (64.41 metric tons of liquid hydrogen and 348.74 metric tons of liquid oxygen). The tank structure is 18.55 metric tons. The remaining 221.31 metric tons is dedicated to 10 decks. Four passenger cabin decks consist of 28 seats facing radially outward and a central cabin behind those seats. A fifth crew deck consists of 14 seats facing radially outward and a central cabin behind those seats. There are five additional decks with supplies, rocket belts, airlocks, propellant and so forth.

112 passengers and 14 crew members are taken to the moon and they fly to the lunar surface on individual rocket belts 7 times in a week - and return to Earth.


Why?


You're not supposed to ask that.

What nonsense. Its a legitimate question. You fly from LLO to Lunar Surface with a rocket belt for the same reason John Houbolt proposed LOR for Apollo. It provides greater capability for a given launch weight - I go into the numbers above.

Why, there are X people with $Y
dollars, so obviously if Mook does some arithmetic they'll give it to
him.

Don't confabulate your idiocy with fact. Anyone offering trips to the moon like Jeff Bezos, or trips to orbit, like the Russians or Bigelow, or trips to Mars like Musk, has done a market analysis along the lines I've done for you here.


--
"Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar
territory."
--G. Behn

William Mook wrote:

On Thursday, September 29, 2016 at 4:38:46 AM UTC+13, Fred J. McCall wrote:
Sylvia Else wrote:

On 10/09/2016 5:12 PM, William Mook wrote:
Consider eight external tank sized airframes. Seven are clusted in a hexagonally close packed array, and the eighth is stacked upon the central tank. The seven tanks are filled with 762 metric tons of propellant (117.23 tonnes of hydrogen and 644.77 metric tons of liquid oxygen. The weight of each tank's structure is 34.29 metric tons.

The eighth tank carries 412.14 metric tons of propellant (64.41 metric tons of liquid hydrogen and 348.74 metric tons of liquid oxygen). The tank structure is 18.55 metric tons. The remaining 221.31 metric tons is dedicated to 10 decks. Four passenger cabin decks consist of 28 seats facing radially outward and a central cabin behind those seats. A fifth crew deck consists of 14 seats facing radially outward and a central cabin behind those seats. There are five additional decks with supplies, rocket belts, airlocks, propellant and so forth.

112 passengers and 14 crew members are taken to the moon and they fly to the lunar surface on individual rocket belts 7 times in a week - and return to Earth.


Why?


You're not supposed to ask that.

What nonsense. Its a legitimate question. You fly from LLO to Lunar Surface with a rocket belt for the same reason John Houbolt proposed LOR for Apollo. It provides greater capability for a given launch weight - I go into the numbers above.


Poor Mook. He doesn't even understand the question.

Why, there are X people with $Y
dollars, so obviously if Mook does some arithmetic they'll give it to
him.

Don't confabulate your idiocy with fact. Anyone offering trips to the moon like Jeff Bezos, or trips to orbit, like the Russians or Bigelow, or trips to Mars like Musk, has done a market analysis along the lines I've done for you here.


No, Mook, they haven't done one like you, because you leave out some
very important steps.


--
"Ordinarily he is insane. But he has lucid moments when he is
only stupid."
-- Heinrich Heine

In article ,
says...

On Wednesday, September 28, 2016 at 11:08:48 PM UTC+13, Jeff Findley wrote:
In article ,
ess says...

On 10/09/2016 5:12 PM, William Mook wrote:
Consider eight external tank sized airframes. Seven are clusted in a hexagonally close packed array, and the eighth is stacked upon the central tank. The seven tanks are filled with 762 metric tons of propellant (117.23 tonnes of hydrogen and 644.77 metric tons of liquid oxygen. The weight of each tank's structure is 34.29 metric tons.

The eighth tank carries 412.14 metric tons of propellant (64.41 metric tons of liquid hydrogen and 348.74 metric tons of liquid oxygen). The tank structure is 18.55 metric tons. The remaining 221.31 metric tons is dedicated to 10 decks. Four passenger cabin decks consist of 28 seats facing radially outward and a central cabin behind those seats. A fifth crew deck consists of 14 seats facing radially outward and a central cabin behind those seats. There are
five
additional decks with supplies, rocket belts, airlocks, propellant and so forth.

112 passengers and 14 crew members are taken to the moon and they fly to the lunar surface on individual rocket belts 7 times in a week - and return to Earth.

Why?

Because it's Mook it doesn't have to make any sense.

Don't confabulate your confusion with presumed confusion of others. Things that make no sense to you make no sense to you because you're stupid. Not because others are stupid.

So name calling instead of producing evidence that there is actually a
market for "rocket belts" to the surface of the moon. Classy Mook,
really classy.

Jeff
--
All opinions posted by me on Usenet News are mine, and mine alone.
These posts do not reflect the opinions of my family, friends,
employer, or any organization that I am a member of.

William Mook wrote:

Dude, if Sylvia was being rhetorical, there is no real answer.


Dude, you still don't understand her question.


If Sylvia was truly wondering why you should take a rocket belt ride from lunar orbit and back many times rather than land once and stay put, I gave her the answer she asked for. Deal with it.


I don't think that's what she was wondering.


I prefer to think Sylvia asks honest questions.


She did. You still don't get it.


--
"Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar
territory."
--G. Behn

Jeff Findley wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Wednesday, September 28, 2016 at 11:08:48 PM UTC+13, Jeff Findley wrote:
In article ,
ess says...

On 10/09/2016 5:12 PM, William Mook wrote:
Consider eight external tank sized airframes. Seven are clusted in a hexagonally close packed array, and the eighth is stacked upon the central tank. The seven tanks are filled with 762 metric tons of propellant (117.23 tonnes of hydrogen and 644.77 metric tons of liquid oxygen. The weight of each tank's structure is 34.29 metric tons.

The eighth tank carries 412.14 metric tons of propellant (64.41 metric tons of liquid hydrogen and 348.74 metric tons of liquid oxygen). The tank structure is 18.55 metric tons. The remaining 221.31 metric tons is dedicated to 10 decks. Four passenger cabin decks consist of 28 seats facing radially outward and a central cabin behind those seats. A fifth crew deck consists of 14 seats facing radially outward and a central cabin behind those seats. There are
five
additional decks with supplies, rocket belts, airlocks, propellant and so forth.

112 passengers and 14 crew members are taken to the moon and they fly to the lunar surface on individual rocket belts 7 times in a week - and return to Earth.

Why?

Because it's Mook it doesn't have to make any sense.

Don't confabulate your confusion with presumed confusion of others. Things that make no sense to you make no sense to you because you're stupid. Not because others are stupid.


So name calling instead of producing evidence that there is actually a
market for "rocket belts" to the surface of the moon. Classy Mook,
really classy.


It's all he's ever got, Jeff. That should be obvious to everyone by
now.


--
"You take the lies out of him, and he'll shrink to the size of
your hat; you take the malice out of him, and he'll disappear."
-- Mark Twain