|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#21
|
|||
|
|||
JFK's greatest achievements/Apollo (Was: Deep Apologies to everyone....)
"Jack Linthicum" wrote in message
... Look at the NASA budget for that period, if there is a heading for "advanced devlopment" there is a program. http://history.nasa.gov/SP-4214/app2.html This is in many ways an argument about syntax. A "program" doesn't necessarily mean a consistent, well-thought out project or real focus. i.e. yes, money was spent. Yes, people were paid. But there wasn't a real focus or even goal. So stuff like AAP had a lot of hand-waving and goals, but unlike "Land a man on the moon and return him safely..." no real focus or ultimate goal. -- Greg Moore Ask me about lily, an RPI based CMC. |
#22
|
|||
|
|||
JFK's greatest achievements/Apollo (Was: Deep Apologies toeveryone....)
On Jan 22, 10:15*am, "Greg D. Moore \(Strider\)"
wrote: "Jack Linthicum" wrote in message ... Look at the NASA budget for that period, if there is a heading for "advanced devlopment" there is a program. http://history.nasa.gov/SP-4214/app2.html This is in many ways an argument about syntax. A "program" doesn't necessarily mean a consistent, well-thought out project or real focus. i.e. yes, money was spent. *Yes, people were paid. *But there wasn't a real focus or even goal. So stuff like AAP had a lot of hand-waving and goals, but unlike "Land a man on the moon and return him safely..." no real focus or ultimate goal. -- Greg Moore Ask me about lily, an RPI based CMC. This one even calls it the Saturn-Apollo Applications (SAA) Program Office http://altairvi.blogspot.com/2008/03...cations-summar... |
#23
|
|||
|
|||
JFK's greatest achievements/Apollo (Was: Deep Apologies to everyone....)
"Roger Conroy" wrote in message ... "Derek Lyons" wrote in message ... "Roger Conroy" wrote: The Apollo program ended up being just a flash in the pan, nothing of any serious consequence followed on from it. It was never intended to be anything but a flash in the pan - the program lived up to Kennedy's promise. That it failed to live up to the utterly unfounded and irrational goals attached to it ex post facto by others is not Kennedy's fault. D. -- Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh. http://derekl1963.livejournal.com/ -Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings. Oct 5th, 2004 JDL Derek Are you seriously saying that the Apollo program was intended right from the start to be nothing more than a really expensive ****ing contest? I find that a bit hard to believe. There were tapes released which Kennedy says something to the effect that he doesn't care about space, he only cares about beating the Russians. Let me search for it... Here is the article (two parts): http://www.thespacereview.com/article/735/1 http://www.thespacereview.com/article/739/1 Here's a quote from Kennedy that's in the first part of the article above: During that meeting, Kennedy made the comment that “I’m not that interested in space…” explaining that he supported the lunar program because it was a race against the Soviets: “the Soviet Union has made this a test of the system. So that’s why we’re doing it,” Kennedy explained. (In 2002 I assisted NASA in transcribing and analyzing the meeting.) The above contains a link to the transcription of the meeting: http://history.nasa.gov/JFK-Webbconv....html#interest That's pretty clear, isn't it? Jeff -- "Many things that were acceptable in 1958 are no longer acceptable today. My own standards have changed too." -- Freeman Dyson |
#24
|
|||
|
|||
JFK's greatest achievements/Apollo (Was: Deep Apologies to everyone....)
Jack Linthicum wrote: Look at the NASA budget for that period, if there is a heading for "advanced devlopment" there is a program. http://history.nasa.gov/SP-4214/app2.html Thanks for finding that info; I've been looking for that for a long time. Pat |
#25
|
|||
|
|||
JFK's greatest achievements/Apollo (Was: Deep Apologies to everyone....)
"Roger Conroy" wrote:
Pretty conclusive evidence that it really was just a ****ing contest. Part of the reasons for the persistence of the Apollo As First Heroic Step, Cut Short By The Vile Criminal Richard Nixon a a) Many space fans aren't actually all that familiar with the details of history. (Or technology, or economics, or budget history, or politics, or any of a dozen other detailed topics.) Non space fans know even less. ~and~ b) These transcripts were only released fairly recently IIRC. D. -- Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh. http://derekl1963.livejournal.com/ -Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings. Oct 5th, 2004 JDL |
#26
|
|||
|
|||
JFK's greatest achievements/Apollo (Was: Deep Apologies to everyone....)
"Roger Conroy" writes:
Derek Are you seriously saying that the Apollo program was intended right from the start to be nothing more than a really expensive ****ing contest? I find that a bit hard to believe. The Apollo 8 crew said as much in a recent retrospective at the Newseum. -- A host is a host from coast to & no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433 is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433 |
#27
|
|||
|
|||
JFK's greatest achievements/Apollo (Was: Deep Apologies to everyone....)
|
#28
|
|||
|
|||
JFK's greatest achievements/Apollo (Was: Deep Apologies to everyone....)
If you mean the one that is popularly thought of, Derek is right. The goal was to "land a man on the Moon and return him safely before the decade was out." ^ the FIRST -- A host is a host from coast to & no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433 is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433 |
#29
|
|||
|
|||
JFK's greatest achievements/Apollo (Was: Deep Apologies toeveryone....)
On Jan 22, 3:29*pm, OM wrote:
On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 19:35:09 +0000 (UTC), David Lesher wrote: Are you seriously saying that the Apollo program was intended right from the start to be nothing more than a really expensive ****ing contest? I find that a bit hard to believe. The Apollo 8 crew said as much in a recent retrospective at the Newseum. ...And that's something that Roger needs to come to terms with. When you boil it down to the most basic terms, it really was just a "****ing match". However, it was a "****ing match" with a just cause, and whoever produced the longest stream in distance and duration won. thinks ...Which means we won the distance part, but the Russians essentially won the duration side of things. And we even crossed the streams a few times along the way. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *OM -- * ]=====================================[ * ] * OMBlog -http://www.io.com/~o_m/omworld* [ * ] * * * *Let's face it: Sometimes you *need* * * * * [ * ] * * * * *an obnoxious opinion in your day! * * * * * [ * ]=====================================[ You have to know that the Soviets bet that we wouldn't make it. Their J booster (it has some launcher designation I never learned) never really got off the ground after 1969, the Zond spacecraft had some problems and they lost their best spaceman when Komarov died. Thier best shot was a little hod carrier on wheels called Lunakhod. The Proton launcher was probably their best bet but they never man-rated it. Thier version of the MOL, Salyut, was more or less a dud. |
#30
|
|||
|
|||
JFK's greatest achievements/Apollo (Was: Deep Apologies to everyone....)
Jack Linthicum wrote:
On Jan 22, 8:45 am, " wrote: On Jan 22, 8:19 am, Jack Linthicum wrote: On Jan 22, 8:15 am, Jack Linthicum wrote: On Jan 22, 8:07 am, (Rand Simberg) wrote: On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 03:52:50 -0800 (PST), in a place far, far away, Jack Linthicum made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such a way as to indicate that: On Jan 21, 5:36 pm, (Rand Simberg) wrote: On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 13:46:22 -0800 (PST), in a place far, far away, Jack Linthicum made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such a way as to indicate that: On Jan 21, 3:52 pm, (Derek Lyons) wrote: "Roger Conroy" wrote: The Apollo program ended up being just a flash in the pan, nothing of any serious consequence followed on from it. It was never intended to be anything but a flash in the pan - the program lived up to Kennedy's promise. That it failed to live up to the utterly unfounded and irrational goals attached to it ex post facto by others is not Kennedy's fault. D. -- Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh. http://derekl1963.livejournal.com/ -Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings. Oct 5th, 2004 JDL IIRC there were many programs which were intended to use the Saturn V and its variants as the heavy booster, Space Shuttle being one, This combination would have built the ISS in five launches. There were concepts to do so, but they were hardly "programs." Ask the people who got paid for doing them. What would they know about it? I get paid for doing lots of things, but that doesn't make them a "program." Look at the NASA budget for that period, if there is a heading for "advanced devlopment" there is a program. http://history.nasa.gov/SP-4214/app2.html This one even calls it the Saturn-Apollo Applications (SAA) Program Office http://altairvi.blogspot.com/2008/03...-summar...Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - yeah our country mucked up big time, the vietnam war sucked up all the money. if it haDNT BEEN FOR VIETNAM WE COULD OF USED A FRACTION OF THOSE BUCKS AND GONE TO MARS Funny how wars always seem to intervene and reduce the ability to achieve the perfect society? You would have thought the end of the Cold War would have brought prosperity and a caring government, handing out medical care and creating a green environment. Instead we got the idea of the 50% plus one election and the "on-off" switch concept of government. Social security spending is part of the security (= military) spending. People normally think the opposite. Andrew Swallow |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Women's achievements | Dr J R Stockton[_1_] | History | 6 | July 30th 09 10:17 AM |
Bush: Greatest World Leader & Greatest President In History? ` ` | Anonymous[_12_] | Astronomy Misc | 2 | March 18th 08 09:18 PM |
Bush: Greatest World Leader & Greatest President In History? ` ` | Anonymous[_12_] | Amateur Astronomy | 2 | March 18th 08 09:18 PM |
Greatest Brilliancy ==> Greatest Illuminated Extent | Paul Schlyter | Amateur Astronomy | 1 | September 18th 05 06:57 PM |
NASA Recognizes Achievements at Honor Awards Ceremony | Jacques van Oene | News | 0 | August 13th 05 12:10 PM |