Earth as seen from Mars

I just assume that readers can appreciate what the grandstand view of what an inner planet would look like from a planet in an outer orbital circuit in our common orbit around the Sun. Unlike the outer planets seen from an inner planet, the motion of the background stars come into play as a line of sight observation needed to keep the Sun as a central reference for the motion of an inner planet whether Venus seen from Earth or Earth seen from Mars -

http://www.farhorizons.nl/planets/Ve...007%20oost.jpg

Coming in an era where even the Pope sides with the celestial sphere nightmare of 'Big Bang' which isolates the observer to the homocentricity of a clockwork universe ,it must be somewhat comforting to know that genuine astronomy can progress.

On Wed, 29 Oct 2014 15:36:27 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
wrote:
However, putting a decent telescope in Mars orbit, or, better yet,
in orbit
around Jupiter... or even Neptune... would have an important
benefit. An
instrument so positioned could look at the stars, and improve our
figures on
stellar parallax.

Not needed, since GAIA already has been launched and will accomplish
just that. It is expected to improve on the accuracy of the Hipparcos
results by about a factor of 100. So expect the unit micro-arcseconds
to soon be more frequent in the astronomical papers.

On Thursday, October 30, 2014 9:27:21 PM UTC, Paul Schlyter wrote:
On Wed, 29 Oct 2014 15:36:27 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
wrote:
However, putting a decent telescope in Mars orbit, or, better yet,
in orbit
around Jupiter... or even Neptune... would have an important
benefit. An
instrument so positioned could look at the stars, and improve our
figures on
stellar parallax.

Not needed, since GAIA already has been launched and will accomplish
just that. It is expected to improve on the accuracy of the Hipparcos
results by about a factor of 100. So expect the unit micro-arcseconds
to soon be more frequent in the astronomical papers.

It is quite an experience to promote what the Earth looks from Mars using the appearance of Venus as seen from Earth while accounting for the partitioning of retrogrades between inner and outer planets yet no decent soul has come forward to admire this new astronomical concept.

The head of the Christian Church is now supporting what is essentially the opposite of Christian faith in terms of the connection between the individual and the Universal insofar as the celestial sphere theme of 'big bang' is the end of human reasoning with its no center/no circumference nonsense.

Surely somebody has a sense of something really poor about the notion of the Earth as seen from Mars -

http://mars.nasa.gov/allaboutmars/nightsky/retrograde/

The Earth will look something like this -

http://www.farhorizons.nl/planets/Ve...007%20oost.jpg

Dismay is a really wonderful human trait and I have felt plenty of it since I entered this forum but the joy of discovery has always been ahead of it. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the errors and distortions inherited from the late 17th century but rather the disregard for the visual narratives of today which tell the real story of astronomy.

On Thursday, October 30, 2014 3:27:21 PM UTC-6, Paul Schlyter wrote:

Not needed, since GAIA already has been launched and will accomplish
just that. It is expected to improve on the accuracy of the Hipparcos
results by about a factor of 100. So expect the unit micro-arcseconds
to soon be more frequent in the astronomical papers.

GAIA will accomplish most of that, but since it uses the same technique as
Hipparcos, if the nebulosity around the Pleiades leads to incorrect results, it
may have the same problem - a conventional telescope, taking images which
include background stars, would give results in that case which we could be
more confident in.

Of course, including a GAIA-like instrument in the payload as well, to put it in orbit around Neptune or whatever, would give us a longer baseline for that improved technique - if its observations could be correlated with GAIA in orbit around Earth.

Ah... I didn't realize that the GAIA design was changed, and it no longer uses
the inteferometric technique that Hipparcos did, but instead is using an
imaging telescope.

John Savard

This is living history -

http://www.masil-astro-imaging.com/S...age%20flat.jpg

" Yes, but how much less would his sublime intellect be celebrated among the learned! For as I said before, we may see that with reason as his guide he resolutely continued to affirm what sensible experience seemed to contradict. I cannot get over my amazement that he was constantly willing to persist in saying that Venus might go around the sun and be more than six times as far from us at one time than at other times as at another, and still look always equal, when it should have appeared forty times larger." Galileo

The sublime intellects may have temporarily left in a world dominated by Ra/Dec cataloguing concerns and their celestial sphere universe but somewhere there may be observers who stop for a few moments to think about what the Earth will look like from Mars and become richer for the effort.

The Earth will be seen to swing out from behind the Sun one day and move to its widest point as seen from the slower moving Mars and then swing in front of the central Sun along with its phases which go along with orbital motion. It is the most natural thing imaginable much like the day and rotation keeping in step or the reason for the leap day in orbital terms yet in this dour world,such information is lost to people who simply have an aversion for astronomy,it principles,its history and most especially that intimate connection between the life of the individual and the dynamics on a celestial scale that make life possible.

All things are in motion apart from those people stuck with ideologies that go nowhere and no person or society should suffer that horrible fate.

On Thu, 30 Oct 2014 18:42:08 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
wrote:
Of course, including a GAIA-like instrument in the payload as well,
to put it in orbit around Neptune or whatever, would give us a longer
baseline for that improved technique

Unfortunately, it would take us some 83 years (half of Neptune's
orbital period) or more to use that longer baseline. Putting such an
instrument in orbit around Saturn would give results much quicker and
still give us a baseline 10 times larger than the Earth's orbit.

On Thursday, October 30, 2014 11:12:15 PM UTC-7, oriel36 wrote:

This is living history -

http://www.masil-astro-imaging.com/S...age%20flat.jpg

No, this far from 'living history', and the proof is right there in the URL itself...montage!

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Montage

montage: noun
"the technique of combining in a single composition pictorial elements from various sources, as parts of different photographs or fragments of printing, either to give the illusion that the elements belonged together originally or to allow each element to retain its separate identity as a means of adding interest or meaning to the composition."

That picture is a combination of multiple individual photos arranged into a pleasant portrayal and in no way gives us an accurate representation of reality.

Sure, from our vantage point here on Earth, with respect to the Sun, an apparently small Venus swings out from superior conjunction, growing in apparent diameter as it reaches greatest elongation and even greater apparent diameter as it reaches inferior conjunction in the evening sky... and then the whole thing repeats itself, in reverse and mirror-imaged, in the morning sky. However, with respect to the fixed stars (which we mostly can't see when Venus is close to the Sun... but we certainly know where they are!) Venus does a little dance and exhibits the very same retrograde motion among those stars that we see with the planets that are exterior to Earth, as represented by this graphic...

http://www.lunarplanner.com/Images/V...et%20Paths.gif

Just to be clear: these 5 graphics are NOT what we see WRT the Sun, but rather WRT the fixed stars.

You need to accept the fact that astronomers actually know and understand this stuff whereas you don't have the tools to argue with them. Just because you don't get it doesn't mean that it can't be gotten.

Reality! What a concept!

\Paul A

On Friday, October 31, 2014 1:07:47 AM UTC-6, Paul Schlyter wrote:

Unfortunately, it would take us some 83 years (half of Neptune's
orbital period) or more to use that longer baseline.

Not _really_. There are telescopes on Earth, too.

John Savard

On Friday, October 31, 2014 5:10:40 PM UTC, palsing wrote:

http://www.lunarplanner.com/Images/V...et%20Paths.gif

Just to be clear: these 5 graphics are NOT what we see WRT the Sun, but rather WRT the fixed stars.

You need to accept the fact that astronomers actually know and understand this stuff whereas you don't have the tools to argue with them.

You can determine where Venus is in relation to the Earth via its phases just as you can determine where the moon is in its orbit of the Earth by its phases -

http://spacemandan.net/astronomy/Sol...escope-med.gif

This is so natural that many people will easily adapt to what the sequence of images represents and particularly that grandstand view we have from the moving Earth of a faster moving inner planet as it approaches our orbit while getting bigger as it does so.

Do you not like the fact that as Venus travels out from behind the Sun it moves against the background stars until its reaches its widest point from our slower moving point of view before it moves in front of the Sun and in the direction of the background stars. The real treat is assigning motion to the background stars as they move in sequence behind the Sun in a line-of-sight perspective due to the orbital motion of the Earth -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdFrE7hWj0A

So Alsing, I will be out in California in December and might take the opportunity of putting those Pasadena guys straight on their worthless notion of what the faster Earth looks like from Mars -

http://mars.nasa.gov/allaboutmars/nightsky/retrograde/

These guys lack integrity as their behavior indicates so ,in truth, I would prefer to allow the better perspective to infiltrate the education system and leave these guys to their own devices.

On Friday, October 31, 2014 1:13:19 PM UTC-7, oriel36 wrote:

You can determine where Venus is in relation to the Earth via its phases just as you can determine where the moon is in its orbit of the Earth by its phases -

http://spacemandan.net/astronomy/Sol...escope-med.gif

Well sure, I agree with this... but this is WRT the Sun. Of course, WRT the Sun you are NOT observing retrograde motion, which is only seen WRT the fixed stars, just like it is with the superior planets as seen from Earth. You can't observe those planets in retrograde WRT the Sun because they are only in retrograde when at opposition, which means they are on the opposite side of the earth than the Sun. Likewise, the inferior planets, Mercury and Venus, only go into retrograde when they are between Earth & Sun, which makes it nearly impossible to actually see their motions WRT the fixed stars.... but that is what astrometry is for, to work out the paths of these planets WRT the fixed stars, whether we can see them of not. I don't think it is possible to create a time-lapse photo that actually shows the retrograde path of Venus among the background stars because the Sun would constantly be in the FOV, but perhaps it would be possible in some wavelength other than the visual, I really couldn't say...


This is so natural that many people will easily adapt to what the sequence of images represents and particularly that grandstand view we have from the moving Earth of a faster moving inner planet as it approaches our orbit while getting bigger as it does so.

So Alsing, I will be out in California in December and might take the opportunity of putting those Pasadena guys straight on their worthless notion of what the faster Earth looks like from Mars -

http://mars.nasa.gov/allaboutmars/nightsky/retrograde/

These guys lack integrity as their behavior indicates so ,in truth, I would prefer to allow the better perspective to infiltrate the education system and leave these guys to their own devices.

You still don't understand... go ahead and visit Pasadena, but you will never convince any of them that you are right and virtually the entire astronomy community is wrong.

I'll be observing from the San Diego desert on December 20th if you want to see objects through a large telescope...