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Chronobiologists



 
 
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  #1  
Old October 9th 17, 09:27 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gerald Kelleher
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It may happen that eventually concerns for health rather than people coming to their senses that will encourage researchers to return to a common sense view.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...=.c495b63dcd1e

The body deals with two distinct day/night cycles – the 24 hour weekday cycle and the annual cycle with its own dawn and twilight on the Equinoxes with noon and midnight on the Solstices. The Sun was out of view at the South pole for 6 months until polar dawn on the September Equinox while the Sun disappeared from view for 6 months at the North pole -

https://www.usap.gov/videoclipsandmaps/spwebcam.cfm

This singular polar sunrise/sunset on the Equinox signals a change in the normal cycles of rest as the trees lose their leaves and the huge adjustments animals,fish and birds make with the changes in temperature arising from the change in daylight/darkness periods due to the motions of the Earth.

  #2  
Old October 10th 17, 02:58 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Quadibloc
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Of course the "biological clock" of any living being will be tied to the
cycle of warm sunlit day versus cold dark night.

How this, in any way, invalidates the fact that the Earth's rotation, in
mechanical terms, has a simpler mathematical form if considered in
relation to the stars instead of the Sun... is beyond my understanding.
  #3  
Old October 10th 17, 03:39 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Davoud[_1_]
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Quadibloc:
Of course the "biological clock" of any living being will be tied to the
cycle of warm sunlit day versus cold dark night.


Except for those living things that aren't tied to that cycle.
Extremophiles that dwell deep in the ocean where the Sun doesn't reach
and where heat comes from geothermal vents.

Wikipedia reports "On 17 March 2013, researchers reported data that
suggested microbial life forms thrive in the Marianas Trench, the
deepest place in Earth's oceans. Other researchers reported related
studies that microbes thrive inside rocks up to 1,900 feet (580*m)
below the sea floor under 8,500 feet (2,600*m) of ocean off the coast
of the northwestern United States. The latter, too, are stuck where the
Sun don't shine.

--
I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that
you will say in your entire life.

usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm
  #4  
Old October 10th 17, 07:35 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gerald Kelleher
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Chronobiology is simply the study of the body's response to its surroundings and ultimately the motions of the Earth which produce the two distinct day/night cycles in isolation or in combination. Celestial sphere enthusiasts have traded this area of research for next to nothing in their attempt to bypass the central Sun for both daily rotation and the orbital surface rotation that is best appreciated via the polar day/night cycle.

With polar sunrise/sunset on the Equinoxes and polar noon/midnight on the Solstices, our ancestors lived by these milestones with their festivals but also the natural rhythm of dormancy and activity in tune with larger nature.. Our society lives with artificial light and all the conveniences which obscure our natural seasonal clock but it creates problems for many people, especially at the higher latitudes, as their body deals with less sunlight and greater darkness.

People in the Northern hemisphere are gearing up for what is the night phase of the polar day/night cycle as the planet continues to turn to the Sun as a function of its orbital motion and the circumference where the Sun is continuously out of sight grows until it reaches a maximum on the December Solstice (polar midnight). It is a lovely area of study that puts our bodies in tune with the motions of the Earth and the great cycles.
  #5  
Old October 10th 17, 12:48 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Chris.B[_3_]
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On Tuesday, 10 October 2017 04:39:32 UTC+2, Davoud wrote:
Quadibloc:
Of course the "biological clock" of any living being will be tied to the
cycle of warm sunlit day versus cold dark night.


Except for those living things that aren't tied to that cycle.
Extremophiles that dwell deep in the ocean where the Sun doesn't reach
and where heat comes from geothermal vents.

Wikipedia reports "On 17 March 2013, researchers reported data that
suggested microbial life forms thrive in the Marianas Trench, the
deepest place in Earth's oceans. Other researchers reported related
studies that microbes thrive inside rocks up to 1,900 feet (580Â*m)
below the sea floor under 8,500 feet (2,600Â*m) of ocean off the coast
of the northwestern United States. The latter, too, are stuck where the
Sun don't shine.


Over many experiments it has been found that humans do not often adhere to a 24 hour clock when isolated from daylight and timekeeping stimuli. e.g. Trapped underground or in experimental isolation chambers.

How do astronaut's internal clock's behave when in orbit?

Submariners on long dives?

  #6  
Old October 10th 17, 02:41 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Martin Brown[_3_]
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On 10/10/2017 02:58, Quadibloc wrote:

Of course the "biological clock" of any living being will be tied to the
cycle of warm sunlit day versus cold dark night.


Only for the ones that are where they can experience the effect of the
sun. Life deep in caves and around deep sea volcanic vents sees only
chemical gradients and total darkness. Conditions in both places are
essentially constant with even seasonal variations largely gone. They
might see a miniscule approximately twice daily variation in pressure
with ocean tides but against the already high pressure it probably won't
make any difference to whatever biological clocks they may have.

Begs an interesting question - do deep sea creatures ever sleep at all
and if so do they all sleep at the same time or randomly?

How this, in any way, invalidates the fact that the Earth's rotation, in
mechanical terms, has a simpler mathematical form if considered in
relation to the stars instead of the Sun... is beyond my understanding.


You will never educate him so why bother trying?

--
Regards,
Martin Brown
  #7  
Old October 10th 17, 03:57 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Quadibloc
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On Tuesday, October 10, 2017 at 12:35:28 AM UTC-6, Gerald Kelleher wrote:
Celestial sphere enthusiasts have traded this area of research for next to
nothing in their attempt to bypass the central Sun for both daily rotation and
the orbital surface rotation that is best appreciated via the polar day/night
cycle.


Viewing the dynamics of the Earth as a rotating body in the simplest fashion -
factoring out the complexities of the Earth's orbit around the Sun from that
rotation - does not in any way interfere with accepting the primacy of the
day/night cycle when studying biological cycles.

Not in any way whatever.

Still, it is true that Newton's claim that the same laws of physics operate in
the motions of the Solar System as with ordinary objects on Earth can be
difficult for some to accept.

After all, they do yield different results. Because friction is omnipresent on
Earth whenever anything is in motion - and so is the Earth's gravitational
field - one can't demonstrate celestial mechanics by, say, putting steel ball
bearings "in orbit" around a bar magnet.

I am trying to find where the fact that the planets orbit the Sun in nearly
the same plane, and all in the same direction, and in nearly circular orbits,
are considered three of several "miracles" of the Solar System, but the quote
evades a Google search at the moment.

John Savard
  #8  
Old October 10th 17, 05:26 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Chris L Peterson
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On Tue, 10 Oct 2017 07:57:35 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
wrote:

Viewing the dynamics of the Earth as a rotating body in the simplest fashion -
factoring out the complexities of the Earth's orbit around the Sun from that
rotation - does not in any way interfere with accepting the primacy of the
day/night cycle when studying biological cycles.


It seems obvious that circadian rhythms are regulated by light/dark
cycles. It's not like we have some sort of Focault pendulum organ in
our heads to detect the actual rotation period of the Earth.

In any case, it is known that when humans are isolated from the
day/night cycle, their internal clocks float somewhat off a 24-hour
cycle. It's a different amount for different people, and there's at
least ten minutes of uncertainty in any identified mean values- a
value larger than the mere four minutes that separate a solar and
sidereal day.
  #9  
Old October 10th 17, 05:46 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gerald Kelleher
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Default Chronobiologists

The splitting apart of the planet's two distinct day/night cycles by rotational cause allows researchers to zone in on the recent rise of problems associated with seasonal affective disorder (SAD) that strikes people at higher latitudes like Northern Europe. Going to the North and South poles seems extreme but this is where it becomes possible to isolate the polar day/night cycle into familiar terms of sunrise/noon/sunset/midnight with associated terms such as polar dawn and twilight.

Once the polar day/night cycle and its rotational cause is identified it then becomes possible to recombine this cycle at lower latitudes where it mixes with daily rotation for many,many purposes including health.

The recent emergence of low level artificial light in cities and towns or indeed the artificial light in houses can make the seasons incidental until the body begins to complain and suffer. The sun went out of view at the North pole about 3 weeks ago signaling the descent into polar twilight or, in 24 hour weekday terms, that time of the evening when the body begins to slow down when associated with the daily rotational cycle. The slowdown is almost imperceptible until it is not there as many people have come to know when working within the Arctic circle in June as I have.

The inhuman won't accept the polar day/night cycle and its cause but then who listens to them at this stage when a genuinely productive area of research is opening up despite the obstacles they place in the way.
  #10  
Old October 10th 17, 06:24 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Quadibloc
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On Tuesday, October 10, 2017 at 10:46:09 AM UTC-6, Gerald Kelleher wrote:
but then who listens to them at this stage when a genuinely productive area of
research is opening up despite the obstacles they place in the way.


The groundswell of support and recognition for your two daily rotations as against Newtonian empiricism to which you here refer... seems to have escaped my
notice.

John Savard
 




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