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#21
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Is Elon Musk ready for the straitjacket ?
On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 9:25:05 PM UTC-7, StarDust wrote:
On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 7:04:05 PM UTC-7, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote: : On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 2:51:58 PM UTC-7, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote: On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 10:43:11 AM UTC-7, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote: On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 8:27:48 AM UTC-7, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote: On Monday, October 2, 2017 at 3:11:17 PM UTC-7, Chris L Peterson wrote: On Mon, 2 Oct 2017 13:01:24 -0700 (PDT), wrote: On Monday, October 2, 2017 at 6:26:55 AM UTC-7, Chris L Peterson wrote: On Mon, 2 Oct 2017 03:54:55 -0700 (PDT), wrote: With electric cars, if it breaks down, I don't think there's a mechanic at every corner, who can fix it. Electric cars are mechanically simpler and therefore easier to repair (although like all electronics, these days that essentially means board swaps). When there are enough electric cars, there will be more mechanics who can deal with them than mechanics who know what to do with a gasoline vehicle. In 20 years most of the cars on the road will be electric. Mechanically simpler, but lot of electronics and software involved to make the them thing running. I talk to mechanics, even garage owners, said- diagnostic equipment is very expensive to buy than train employees too! One guy said - he spend $30K for software to locate parts nation wide! EV cars still have some way to go! Well, most cars these days needing anything more than trivial repairs require the dealer or a specialist. Your corner mechanic who can deal with everything is pretty much a thing of the past. Most corner mechanics are specialized also. German cars, Japanese cars etc... Changing tires, fixing breaks, anyone can do it! Even me! I have an old BMW, They key word there being *old*. -- Terry Austin Vacation photos from Iceland: https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB "Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole." -- David Bilek Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals. Yes, old! 91' BMW , 26 years old, 160K miles, runs like a Swiss watch! What's wrong with that? Cars have changed quite a lot in the last two and a half decades. In 1991, mechanics did tend to specialize, but any competent mechanic could easily work on any car, if they had the right manuals (and the manuals were mostly printed on paper at that point). Specialized tools were helpful, but not generally necessary. Now, you can't even duplicate keys for all cars with the same equipment[1], nor can you even diagnose what's wrong without tens (or more) of thousands of dollars worth of specialized hardware and software - and it's different hardware and software for different manufacturers. It's not longer *possible* for a mechanic to generalize, unless they have the backing of a dealership, and dealerships don't support multiple brands. (And most carmakers these days won't sell that equipment to anyone but a dealer anyway, if they can get away with it.) [1]Some car makers use completely different technology. Japanese and US carmakers use "chip keys" for everything now, keys that have a small RFID-ish chip in the head, which forms a necessary componenet to the ignition system. The engine *can't* run without it. Mercedes, on the other hand, doesn't use a radio based system, their keys (at least, in 2000, when mine was built) had a laser in the dashboard, that interacted with a chip in the key, to do the same thing. The advantage was that the ignition key would work regardless of the battery status in the remote. The disadvantage is that the replacement keys cost over $300 each, and nobody could reverse engineer them to compete (Go to a dealership for a US or Japanese car, and the chip key will cost you well over $100, but if you go to your local Ace Hardware, it'll probably be more like $30). And that doesn't even touch on the sidewinder keys, which require a specialized mill to duplicate. On top of the chip programming. -- Terry Austin Vacation photos from Iceland: https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB "Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole." -- David Bilek Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals. (o: When the engine computer ECU went out on my BMW, fuel injectors wasn't firing right, bought another one on Ebay for $80. Plug it in, it was a 15 min job, car ran good after. Some one told me, can't do that with newer BMW's, because dealer has to flash the new computer ECU and key security code has to be installed too. They work together. New computer cost $1500 + flashing and key install another $600! LOLOLOLOLOL! Some times it's worth to keep a good old car! (o: I have a friend who drives a 30 year old diesel Mercedes, and is unlikely to ever drive anything else until it is no longer possible to repair it. It is 100% electro-mechanical in all critical functions. (It doesn't even require electricity to *run* the engine, once it's started.) I see his point. (On the other hand, I am driving a brand new Toyota now, because it was far more cost effective than repairing my 17 year old Mercedes, and because I'm not inclined to deal with a car that needs regular reapirs, as any old car does. My seven year warranty includes rental coverage if it's in overight, for enough to pay for a better car than I own. Said warranty will outlast the payments. And I get over 40 mpg on the highway. Convenience is worth the extra expense.) -- Terry Austin Vacation photos from Iceland: https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB "Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole." -- David Bilek Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals. You right, if I would drive a lot, commute etc... would buy a new car or a slightly used one, but I'm not. I get insurance break, because I drive less than 5K millage! I don't drive that much more myself. But in southern California, it's nearly impossible to survive without a car for whatever driving you do. Same here in the Bay Area! Traffic is crazy! So to me, a good old car, no payments, fits the bill! I think, BMW's are better cars than Mercedes! BMV vs Mercedes is like Monty Python vs Benny Hill. Some like one, others like the other, but you're not allowed to like both. Like apples and oranges! Mercedes is luxury and BMW's are performance cars. All though, the last 10-15 years both manufacturers make either style cars. I still miss my 1985 BMW 535i, that box looking car, with lot of trunk and interior space. http://img.bmwcase.com/full/f1fb4017...llic-535is.jpg .....and of course 5 speed manual, more fun! |
#22
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Is Elon Musk ready for the straitjacket ?
StarDust wrote in
: On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 7:04:05 PM UTC-7, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote: : On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 2:51:58 PM UTC-7, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote: On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 10:43:11 AM UTC-7, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote: On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 8:27:48 AM UTC-7, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote: On Monday, October 2, 2017 at 3:11:17 PM UTC-7, Chris L Peterson wrote: On Mon, 2 Oct 2017 13:01:24 -0700 (PDT), wrote: On Monday, October 2, 2017 at 6:26:55 AM UTC-7, Chris L Peterson wrote: On Mon, 2 Oct 2017 03:54:55 -0700 (PDT), wrote: With electric cars, if it breaks down, I don't think there's a mechanic at every corner, who can fix it. Electric cars are mechanically simpler and therefore easier to repair (although like all electronics, these days that essentially means board swaps). When there are enough electric cars, there will be more mechanics who can deal with them than mechanics who know what to do with a gasoline vehicle. In 20 years most of the cars on the road will be electric. Mechanically simpler, but lot of electronics and software involved to make the them thing running. I talk to mechanics, even garage owners, said- diagnostic equipment is very expensive to buy than train employees too! One guy said - he spend $30K for software to locate parts nation wide! EV cars still have some way to go! Well, most cars these days needing anything more than trivial repairs require the dealer or a specialist. Your corner mechanic who can deal with everything is pretty much a thing of the past. Most corner mechanics are specialized also. German cars, Japanese cars etc... Changing tires, fixing breaks, anyone can do it! Even me! I have an old BMW, They key word there being *old*. -- Terry Austin Vacation photos from Iceland: https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB "Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole." -- David Bilek Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals. Yes, old! 91' BMW , 26 years old, 160K miles, runs like a Swiss watch! What's wrong with that? Cars have changed quite a lot in the last two and a half decades. In 1991, mechanics did tend to specialize, but any competent mechanic could easily work on any car, if they had the right manuals (and the manuals were mostly printed on paper at that point). Specialized tools were helpful, but not generally necessary. Now, you can't even duplicate keys for all cars with the same equipment[1], nor can you even diagnose what's wrong without tens (or more) of thousands of dollars worth of specialized hardware and software - and it's different hardware and software for different manufacturers. It's not longer *possible* for a mechanic to generalize, unless they have the backing of a dealership, and dealerships don't support multiple brands. (And most carmakers these days won't sell that equipment to anyone but a dealer anyway, if they can get away with it.) [1]Some car makers use completely different technology. Japanese and US carmakers use "chip keys" for everything now, keys that have a small RFID-ish chip in the head, which forms a necessary componenet to the ignition system. The engine *can't* run without it. Mercedes, on the other hand, doesn't use a radio based system, their keys (at least, in 2000, when mine was built) had a laser in the dashboard, that interacted with a chip in the key, to do the same thing. The advantage was that the ignition key would work regardless of the battery status in the remote. The disadvantage is that the replacement keys cost over $300 each, and nobody could reverse engineer them to compete (Go to a dealership for a US or Japanese car, and the chip key will cost you well over $100, but if you go to your local Ace Hardware, it'll probably be more like $30). And that doesn't even touch on the sidewinder keys, which require a specialized mill to duplicate. On top of the chip programming. -- Terry Austin Vacation photos from Iceland: https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB "Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole." -- David Bilek Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals. (o: When the engine computer ECU went out on my BMW, fuel injectors wasn't firing right, bought another one on Ebay for $80. Plug it in, it was a 15 min job, car ran good after. Some one told me, can't do that with newer BMW's, because dealer has to flash the new computer ECU and key security code has to be installed too. They work together. New computer cost $1500 + flashing and key install another $600! LOLOLOLOLOL! Some times it's worth to keep a good old car! (o: I have a friend who drives a 30 year old diesel Mercedes, and is unlikely to ever drive anything else until it is no longer possible to repair it. It is 100% electro-mechanical in all critical functions. (It doesn't even require electricity to *run* the engine, once it's started.) I see his point. (On the other hand, I am driving a brand new Toyota now, because it was far more cost effective than repairing my 17 year old Mercedes, and because I'm not inclined to deal with a car that needs regular reapirs, as any old car does. My seven year warranty includes rental coverage if it's in overight, for enough to pay for a better car than I own. Said warranty will outlast the payments. And I get over 40 mpg on the highway. Convenience is worth the extra expense.) -- Terry Austin Vacation photos from Iceland: https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB "Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole." -- David Bilek Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals. You right, if I would drive a lot, commute etc... would buy a new car or a slightly used one, but I'm not. I get insurance break, because I drive less than 5K millage! I don't drive that much more myself. But in southern California, it's nearly impossible to survive without a car for whatever driving you do. Same here in the Bay Area! Traffic is crazy! So to me, a good old car, no payments, fits the bill! I think, BMW's are better cars than Mercedes! BMV vs Mercedes is like Monty Python vs Benny Hill. Some like one, others like the other, but you're not allowed to like both. Like apples and oranges! Heh. Mercedes is luxury and BMW's are performance cars. That's what their advetising wants to imply, sure. My 2000 C class was the most basic car they made, and had better performance in every respect except mileage than any other car I've ever driven. The supercharger helped, I suppose. The real differences are not large, and haven't been for a lot longer than 10-15 years. -- Terry Austin Vacation photos from Iceland: https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB "Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole." -- David Bilek Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals. |
#23
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Is Elon Musk ready for the straitjacket ?
StarDust wrote in
: On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 9:25:05 PM UTC-7, StarDust wrote: On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 7:04:05 PM UTC-7, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote: : On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 2:51:58 PM UTC-7, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote: On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 10:43:11 AM UTC-7, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote: On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 8:27:48 AM UTC-7, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote: On Monday, October 2, 2017 at 3:11:17 PM UTC-7, Chris L Peterson wrote: On Mon, 2 Oct 2017 13:01:24 -0700 (PDT), wrote: On Monday, October 2, 2017 at 6:26:55 AM UTC-7, Chris L Peterson wrote: On Mon, 2 Oct 2017 03:54:55 -0700 (PDT), wrote: With electric cars, if it breaks down, I don't think there's a mechanic at every corner, who can fix it. Electric cars are mechanically simpler and therefore easier to repair (although like all electronics, these days that essentially means board swaps). When there are enough electric cars, there will be more mechanics who can deal with them than mechanics who know what to do with a gasoline vehicle. In 20 years most of the cars on the road will be electric. Mechanically simpler, but lot of electronics and software involved to make the them thing running. I talk to mechanics, even garage owners, said- diagnostic equipment is very expensive to buy than train employees too! One guy said - he spend $30K for software to locate parts nation wide! EV cars still have some way to go! Well, most cars these days needing anything more than trivial repairs require the dealer or a specialist. Your corner mechanic who can deal with everything is pretty much a thing of the past. Most corner mechanics are specialized also. German cars, Japanese cars etc... Changing tires, fixing breaks, anyone can do it! Even me! I have an old BMW, They key word there being *old*. -- Terry Austin Vacation photos from Iceland: https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB "Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole." -- David Bilek Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals. Yes, old! 91' BMW , 26 years old, 160K miles, runs like a Swiss watch! What's wrong with that? Cars have changed quite a lot in the last two and a half decades. In 1991, mechanics did tend to specialize, but any competent mechanic could easily work on any car, if they had the right manuals (and the manuals were mostly printed on paper at that point). Specialized tools were helpful, but not generally necessary. Now, you can't even duplicate keys for all cars with the same equipment[1], nor can you even diagnose what's wrong without tens (or more) of thousands of dollars worth of specialized hardware and software - and it's different hardware and software for different manufacturers. It's not longer *possible* for a mechanic to generalize, unless they have the backing of a dealership, and dealerships don't support multiple brands. (And most carmakers these days won't sell that equipment to anyone but a dealer anyway, if they can get away with it.) [1]Some car makers use completely different technology. Japanese and US carmakers use "chip keys" for everything now, keys that have a small RFID-ish chip in the head, which forms a necessary componenet to the ignition system. The engine *can't* run without it. Mercedes, on the other hand, doesn't use a radio based system, their keys (at least, in 2000, when mine was built) had a laser in the dashboard, that interacted with a chip in the key, to do the same thing. The advantage was that the ignition key would work regardless of the battery status in the remote. The disadvantage is that the replacement keys cost over $300 each, and nobody could reverse engineer them to compete (Go to a dealership for a US or Japanese car, and the chip key will cost you well over $100, but if you go to your local Ace Hardware, it'll probably be more like $30). And that doesn't even touch on the sidewinder keys, which require a specialized mill to duplicate. On top of the chip programming. -- Terry Austin Vacation photos from Iceland: https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB "Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole." -- David Bilek Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals. (o: When the engine computer ECU went out on my BMW, fuel injectors wasn't firing right, bought another one on Ebay for $80. Plug it in, it was a 15 min job, car ran good after. Some one told me, can't do that with newer BMW's, because dealer has to flash the new computer ECU and key security code has to be installed too. They work together. New computer cost $1500 + flashing and key install another $600! LOLOLOLOLOL! Some times it's worth to keep a good old car! (o: I have a friend who drives a 30 year old diesel Mercedes, and is unlikely to ever drive anything else until it is no longer possible to repair it. It is 100% electro-mechanical in all critical functions. (It doesn't even require electricity to *run* the engine, once it's started.) I see his point. (On the other hand, I am driving a brand new Toyota now, because it was far more cost effective than repairing my 17 year old Mercedes, and because I'm not inclined to deal with a car that needs regular reapirs, as any old car does. My seven year warranty includes rental coverage if it's in overight, for enough to pay for a better car than I own. Said warranty will outlast the payments. And I get over 40 mpg on the highway. Convenience is worth the extra expense.) -- Terry Austin Vacation photos from Iceland: https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB "Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole." -- David Bilek Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals. You right, if I would drive a lot, commute etc... would buy a new car or a slightly used one, but I'm not. I get insurance break, because I drive less than 5K millage! I don't drive that much more myself. But in southern California, it's nearly impossible to survive without a car for whatever driving you do. Same here in the Bay Area! Traffic is crazy! So to me, a good old car, no payments, fits the bill! I think, BMW's are better cars than Mercedes! BMV vs Mercedes is like Monty Python vs Benny Hill. Some like one, others like the other, but you're not allowed to like both. Like apples and oranges! Mercedes is luxury and BMW's are performance cars. All though, the last 10-15 years both manufacturers make either style cars. I still miss my 1985 BMW 535i, that box looking car, with lot of trunk and interior space. http://img.bmwcase.com/full/f1fb4017...28-535i-royal- blue-metallic-535is.jpg ....and of course 5 speed manual, more fun! Superchargers are fun, too, even (especially) on four cylinder engines. But my favorite button was the one that dropped the headrests in the back seat down, if a passenger forgot to do so. There was a quarter second pause. Comedy is all in the timing. (The dashboard indicator that came on when it would hold *exactly* a gallon of windshield washer fluid was nice, too.) -- Terry Austin Vacation photos from Iceland: https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB "Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole." -- David Bilek Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals. |
#24
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Is Elon Musk ready for the straitjacket ?
On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 9:39:06 PM UTC-7, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:
On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 9:25:05 PM UTC-7, StarDust wrote: On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 7:04:05 PM UTC-7, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote: : On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 2:51:58 PM UTC-7, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote: On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 10:43:11 AM UTC-7, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote: On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 8:27:48 AM UTC-7, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote: On Monday, October 2, 2017 at 3:11:17 PM UTC-7, Chris L Peterson wrote: On Mon, 2 Oct 2017 13:01:24 -0700 (PDT), wrote: On Monday, October 2, 2017 at 6:26:55 AM UTC-7, Chris L Peterson wrote: On Mon, 2 Oct 2017 03:54:55 -0700 (PDT), wrote: With electric cars, if it breaks down, I don't think there's a mechanic at every corner, who can fix it. Electric cars are mechanically simpler and therefore easier to repair (although like all electronics, these days that essentially means board swaps). When there are enough electric cars, there will be more mechanics who can deal with them than mechanics who know what to do with a gasoline vehicle. In 20 years most of the cars on the road will be electric. Mechanically simpler, but lot of electronics and software involved to make the them thing running. I talk to mechanics, even garage owners, said- diagnostic equipment is very expensive to buy than train employees too! One guy said - he spend $30K for software to locate parts nation wide! EV cars still have some way to go! Well, most cars these days needing anything more than trivial repairs require the dealer or a specialist. Your corner mechanic who can deal with everything is pretty much a thing of the past. Most corner mechanics are specialized also. German cars, Japanese cars etc... Changing tires, fixing breaks, anyone can do it! Even me! I have an old BMW, They key word there being *old*. -- Terry Austin Vacation photos from Iceland: https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB "Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole." -- David Bilek Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals. Yes, old! 91' BMW , 26 years old, 160K miles, runs like a Swiss watch! What's wrong with that? Cars have changed quite a lot in the last two and a half decades. In 1991, mechanics did tend to specialize, but any competent mechanic could easily work on any car, if they had the right manuals (and the manuals were mostly printed on paper at that point). Specialized tools were helpful, but not generally necessary. Now, you can't even duplicate keys for all cars with the same equipment[1], nor can you even diagnose what's wrong without tens (or more) of thousands of dollars worth of specialized hardware and software - and it's different hardware and software for different manufacturers. It's not longer *possible* for a mechanic to generalize, unless they have the backing of a dealership, and dealerships don't support multiple brands. (And most carmakers these days won't sell that equipment to anyone but a dealer anyway, if they can get away with it.) [1]Some car makers use completely different technology. Japanese and US carmakers use "chip keys" for everything now, keys that have a small RFID-ish chip in the head, which forms a necessary componenet to the ignition system. The engine *can't* run without it. Mercedes, on the other hand, doesn't use a radio based system, their keys (at least, in 2000, when mine was built) had a laser in the dashboard, that interacted with a chip in the key, to do the same thing. The advantage was that the ignition key would work regardless of the battery status in the remote. The disadvantage is that the replacement keys cost over $300 each, and nobody could reverse engineer them to compete (Go to a dealership for a US or Japanese car, and the chip key will cost you well over $100, but if you go to your local Ace Hardware, it'll probably be more like $30). And that doesn't even touch on the sidewinder keys, which require a specialized mill to duplicate. On top of the chip programming. -- Terry Austin Vacation photos from Iceland: https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB "Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole." -- David Bilek Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals. (o: When the engine computer ECU went out on my BMW, fuel injectors wasn't firing right, bought another one on Ebay for $80. Plug it in, it was a 15 min job, car ran good after. Some one told me, can't do that with newer BMW's, because dealer has to flash the new computer ECU and key security code has to be installed too. They work together. New computer cost $1500 + flashing and key install another $600! LOLOLOLOLOL! Some times it's worth to keep a good old car! (o: I have a friend who drives a 30 year old diesel Mercedes, and is unlikely to ever drive anything else until it is no longer possible to repair it. It is 100% electro-mechanical in all critical functions. (It doesn't even require electricity to *run* the engine, once it's started.) I see his point. (On the other hand, I am driving a brand new Toyota now, because it was far more cost effective than repairing my 17 year old Mercedes, and because I'm not inclined to deal with a car that needs regular reapirs, as any old car does. My seven year warranty includes rental coverage if it's in overight, for enough to pay for a better car than I own. Said warranty will outlast the payments. And I get over 40 mpg on the highway. Convenience is worth the extra expense.) -- Terry Austin Vacation photos from Iceland: https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB "Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole." -- David Bilek Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals. You right, if I would drive a lot, commute etc... would buy a new car or a slightly used one, but I'm not. I get insurance break, because I drive less than 5K millage! I don't drive that much more myself. But in southern California, it's nearly impossible to survive without a car for whatever driving you do. Same here in the Bay Area! Traffic is crazy! So to me, a good old car, no payments, fits the bill! I think, BMW's are better cars than Mercedes! BMV vs Mercedes is like Monty Python vs Benny Hill. Some like one, others like the other, but you're not allowed to like both. Like apples and oranges! Mercedes is luxury and BMW's are performance cars. All though, the last 10-15 years both manufacturers make either style cars. I still miss my 1985 BMW 535i, that box looking car, with lot of trunk and interior space. http://img.bmwcase.com/full/f1fb4017...28-535i-royal- blue-metallic-535is.jpg ....and of course 5 speed manual, more fun! Superchargers are fun, too, even (especially) on four cylinder engines. Not sure what you mean - supercharger-? This ugly thing? http://performancedrive.com.au/wp-co...percharger.jpg But my favorite button was the one that dropped the headrests in the back seat down, if a passenger forgot to do so. There was a quarter second pause. Comedy is all in the timing. (The dashboard indicator that came on when it would hold *exactly* a gallon of windshield washer fluid was nice, too.) -- Terry Austin Vacation photos from Iceland: https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB "Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole." -- David Bilek Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals. |
#25
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Is Elon Musk ready for the straitjacket ?
StarDust wrote in
: On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 9:39:06 PM UTC-7, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote: On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 9:25:05 PM UTC-7, StarDust wrote: On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 7:04:05 PM UTC-7, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote: : On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 2:51:58 PM UTC-7, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote: On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 10:43:11 AM UTC-7, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote: On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 8:27:48 AM UTC-7, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote: On Monday, October 2, 2017 at 3:11:17 PM UTC-7, Chris L Peterson wrote: On Mon, 2 Oct 2017 13:01:24 -0700 (PDT), wrote: On Monday, October 2, 2017 at 6:26:55 AM UTC-7, Chris L Peterson wrote: On Mon, 2 Oct 2017 03:54:55 -0700 (PDT), wrote: With electric cars, if it breaks down, I don't think there's a mechanic at every corner, who can fix it. Electric cars are mechanically simpler and therefore easier to repair (although like all electronics, these days that essentially means board swaps). When there are enough electric cars, there will be more mechanics who can deal with them than mechanics who know what to do with a gasoline vehicle. In 20 years most of the cars on the road will be electric. Mechanically simpler, but lot of electronics and software involved to make the them thing running. I talk to mechanics, even garage owners, said- diagnostic equipment is very expensive to buy than train employees too! One guy said - he spend $30K for software to locate parts nation wide! EV cars still have some way to go! Well, most cars these days needing anything more than trivial repairs require the dealer or a specialist. Your corner mechanic who can deal with everything is pretty much a thing of the past. Most corner mechanics are specialized also. German cars, Japanese cars etc... Changing tires, fixing breaks, anyone can do it! Even me! I have an old BMW, They key word there being *old*. -- Terry Austin Vacation photos from Iceland: https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB "Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole." -- David Bilek Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals. Yes, old! 91' BMW , 26 years old, 160K miles, runs like a Swiss watch! What's wrong with that? Cars have changed quite a lot in the last two and a half decades. In 1991, mechanics did tend to specialize, but any competent mechanic could easily work on any car, if they had the right manuals (and the manuals were mostly printed on paper at that point). Specialized tools were helpful, but not generally necessary. Now, you can't even duplicate keys for all cars with the same equipment[1], nor can you even diagnose what's wrong without tens (or more) of thousands of dollars worth of specialized hardware and software - and it's different hardware and software for different manufacturers. It's not longer *possible* for a mechanic to generalize, unless they have the backing of a dealership, and dealerships don't support multiple brands. (And most carmakers these days won't sell that equipment to anyone but a dealer anyway, if they can get away with it.) [1]Some car makers use completely different technology. Japanese and US carmakers use "chip keys" for everything now, keys that have a small RFID-ish chip in the head, which forms a necessary componenet to the ignition system. The engine *can't* run without it. Mercedes, on the other hand, doesn't use a radio based system, their keys (at least, in 2000, when mine was built) had a laser in the dashboard, that interacted with a chip in the key, to do the same thing. The advantage was that the ignition key would work regardless of the battery status in the remote. The disadvantage is that the replacement keys cost over $300 each, and nobody could reverse engineer them to compete (Go to a dealership for a US or Japanese car, and the chip key will cost you well over $100, but if you go to your local Ace Hardware, it'll probably be more like $30). And that doesn't even touch on the sidewinder keys, which require a specialized mill to duplicate. On top of the chip programming. -- Terry Austin Vacation photos from Iceland: https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB "Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole." -- David Bilek Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals. (o: When the engine computer ECU went out on my BMW, fuel injectors wasn't firing right, bought another one on Ebay for $80. Plug it in, it was a 15 min job, car ran good after. Some one told me, can't do that with newer BMW's, because dealer has to flash the new computer ECU and key security code has to be installed too. They work together. New computer cost $1500 + flashing and key install another $600! LOLOLOLOLOL! Some times it's worth to keep a good old car! (o: I have a friend who drives a 30 year old diesel Mercedes, and is unlikely to ever drive anything else until it is no longer possible to repair it. It is 100% electro-mechanical in all critical functions. (It doesn't even require electricity to *run* the engine, once it's started.) I see his point. (On the other hand, I am driving a brand new Toyota now, because it was far more cost effective than repairing my 17 year old Mercedes, and because I'm not inclined to deal with a car that needs regular reapirs, as any old car does. My seven year warranty includes rental coverage if it's in overight, for enough to pay for a better car than I own. Said warranty will outlast the payments. And I get over 40 mpg on the highway. Convenience is worth the extra expense.) -- Terry Austin Vacation photos from Iceland: https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB "Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole." -- David Bilek Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals. You right, if I would drive a lot, commute etc... would buy a new car or a slightly used one, but I'm not. I get insurance break, because I drive less than 5K millage! I don't drive that much more myself. But in southern California, it's nearly impossible to survive without a car for whatever driving you do. Same here in the Bay Area! Traffic is crazy! So to me, a good old car, no payments, fits the bill! I think, BMW's are better cars than Mercedes! BMV vs Mercedes is like Monty Python vs Benny Hill. Some like one, others like the other, but you're not allowed to like both. Like apples and oranges! Mercedes is luxury and BMW's are performance cars. All though, the last 10-15 years both manufacturers make either style cars. I still miss my 1985 BMW 535i, that box looking car, with lot of trunk and interior space. http://img.bmwcase.com/full/f1fb4017...w-e28-535i-roy al- blue-metallic-535is.jpg ....and of course 5 speed manual, more fun! Superchargers are fun, too, even (especially) on four cylinder engines. Not sure what you mean - supercharger-? This ugly thing? http://performancedrive.com.au/wp-co...017/04/Chevrol et-Camaro-freight-train-supercharger.jpg In principle, yes, though this was factory installed. And fit under the hood. That's what the "Kompressor" designation means. -- Terry Austin Vacation photos from Iceland: https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB "Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole." -- David Bilek Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals. |
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Is Elon Musk ready for the straitjacket ?
On Mon, 02 Oct 2017 07:26:53 -0600, Chris L Peterson
wrote: On Mon, 2 Oct 2017 03:54:55 -0700 (PDT), StarDust wrote: With electric cars, if it breaks down, I don't think there's a mechanic at every corner, who can fix it. Electric cars are mechanically simpler and therefore easier to repair (although like all electronics, these days that essentially means board swaps). When there are enough electric cars, there will be more mechanics who can deal with them than mechanics who know what to do with a gasoline vehicle. In 20 years most of the cars on the road will be electric. Wouldn't that require electricians rather than mechanics? You don't call a plumber to fix a problem with the electricity in your house, do you? The same ought to apply to electric cars, just as it already applies to electric trains and trams. |
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Is Elon Musk ready for the straitjacket ?
On Mon, 02 Oct 2017 12:28:50 -0400, Davoud wrote:
Will there be flying electric cars? No. If it flies then it's an airplane of some kind, not a car. |
#28
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Is Elon Musk ready for the straitjacket ?
On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 11:02:09 PM UTC-7, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:
On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 9:39:06 PM UTC-7, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote: On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 9:25:05 PM UTC-7, StarDust wrote: On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 7:04:05 PM UTC-7, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote: : On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 2:51:58 PM UTC-7, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote: On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 10:43:11 AM UTC-7, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote: On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 8:27:48 AM UTC-7, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote: On Monday, October 2, 2017 at 3:11:17 PM UTC-7, Chris L Peterson wrote: On Mon, 2 Oct 2017 13:01:24 -0700 (PDT), wrote: On Monday, October 2, 2017 at 6:26:55 AM UTC-7, Chris L Peterson wrote: On Mon, 2 Oct 2017 03:54:55 -0700 (PDT), wrote: With electric cars, if it breaks down, I don't think there's a mechanic at every corner, who can fix it. Electric cars are mechanically simpler and therefore easier to repair (although like all electronics, these days that essentially means board swaps). When there are enough electric cars, there will be more mechanics who can deal with them than mechanics who know what to do with a gasoline vehicle. In 20 years most of the cars on the road will be electric. Mechanically simpler, but lot of electronics and software involved to make the them thing running. I talk to mechanics, even garage owners, said- diagnostic equipment is very expensive to buy than train employees too! One guy said - he spend $30K for software to locate parts nation wide! EV cars still have some way to go! Well, most cars these days needing anything more than trivial repairs require the dealer or a specialist. Your corner mechanic who can deal with everything is pretty much a thing of the past. Most corner mechanics are specialized also. German cars, Japanese cars etc... Changing tires, fixing breaks, anyone can do it! Even me! I have an old BMW, They key word there being *old*. -- Terry Austin Vacation photos from Iceland: https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB "Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole." -- David Bilek Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals. Yes, old! 91' BMW , 26 years old, 160K miles, runs like a Swiss watch! What's wrong with that? Cars have changed quite a lot in the last two and a half decades. In 1991, mechanics did tend to specialize, but any competent mechanic could easily work on any car, if they had the right manuals (and the manuals were mostly printed on paper at that point). Specialized tools were helpful, but not generally necessary. Now, you can't even duplicate keys for all cars with the same equipment[1], nor can you even diagnose what's wrong without tens (or more) of thousands of dollars worth of specialized hardware and software - and it's different hardware and software for different manufacturers. It's not longer *possible* for a mechanic to generalize, unless they have the backing of a dealership, and dealerships don't support multiple brands. (And most carmakers these days won't sell that equipment to anyone but a dealer anyway, if they can get away with it.) [1]Some car makers use completely different technology. Japanese and US carmakers use "chip keys" for everything now, keys that have a small RFID-ish chip in the head, which forms a necessary componenet to the ignition system. The engine *can't* run without it. Mercedes, on the other hand, doesn't use a radio based system, their keys (at least, in 2000, when mine was built) had a laser in the dashboard, that interacted with a chip in the key, to do the same thing. The advantage was that the ignition key would work regardless of the battery status in the remote. The disadvantage is that the replacement keys cost over $300 each, and nobody could reverse engineer them to compete (Go to a dealership for a US or Japanese car, and the chip key will cost you well over $100, but if you go to your local Ace Hardware, it'll probably be more like $30). And that doesn't even touch on the sidewinder keys, which require a specialized mill to duplicate. On top of the chip programming. -- Terry Austin Vacation photos from Iceland: https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB "Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole." -- David Bilek Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals. (o: When the engine computer ECU went out on my BMW, fuel injectors wasn't firing right, bought another one on Ebay for $80. Plug it in, it was a 15 min job, car ran good after. Some one told me, can't do that with newer BMW's, because dealer has to flash the new computer ECU and key security code has to be installed too. They work together. New computer cost $1500 + flashing and key install another $600! LOLOLOLOLOL! Some times it's worth to keep a good old car! (o: I have a friend who drives a 30 year old diesel Mercedes, and is unlikely to ever drive anything else until it is no longer possible to repair it. It is 100% electro-mechanical in all critical functions. (It doesn't even require electricity to *run* the engine, once it's started.) I see his point. (On the other hand, I am driving a brand new Toyota now, because it was far more cost effective than repairing my 17 year old Mercedes, and because I'm not inclined to deal with a car that needs regular reapirs, as any old car does. My seven year warranty includes rental coverage if it's in overight, for enough to pay for a better car than I own. Said warranty will outlast the payments. And I get over 40 mpg on the highway. Convenience is worth the extra expense.) -- Terry Austin Vacation photos from Iceland: https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB "Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole." -- David Bilek Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals. You right, if I would drive a lot, commute etc... would buy a new car or a slightly used one, but I'm not. I get insurance break, because I drive less than 5K millage! I don't drive that much more myself. But in southern California, it's nearly impossible to survive without a car for whatever driving you do. Same here in the Bay Area! Traffic is crazy! So to me, a good old car, no payments, fits the bill! I think, BMW's are better cars than Mercedes! BMV vs Mercedes is like Monty Python vs Benny Hill. Some like one, others like the other, but you're not allowed to like both. Like apples and oranges! Mercedes is luxury and BMW's are performance cars. All though, the last 10-15 years both manufacturers make either style cars. I still miss my 1985 BMW 535i, that box looking car, with lot of trunk and interior space. http://img.bmwcase.com/full/f1fb4017...w-e28-535i-roy al- blue-metallic-535is.jpg ....and of course 5 speed manual, more fun! Superchargers are fun, too, even (especially) on four cylinder engines. Not sure what you mean - supercharger-? This ugly thing? http://performancedrive.com.au/wp-co...017/04/Chevrol et-Camaro-freight-train-supercharger.jpg In principle, yes, though this was factory installed. And fit under the hood. That's what the "Kompressor" designation means. -- Terry Austin Vacation photos from Iceland: https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB "Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole." -- David Bilek Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals. Oh, I see! I've seen -Kompressor - written on the back of Mercedes, I didn't know what means? It's like turbo charge? miniCooper has turbocharged models! |
#29
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Is Elon Musk ready for the straitjacket ?
Chris L Peterson:
Electric cars are mechanically simpler and therefore easier to repair (although like all electronics, these days that essentially means board swaps). When there are enough electric cars, there will be more mechanics who can deal with them than mechanics who know what to do with a gasoline vehicle. In 20 years most of the cars on the road will be electric. Paul Schlyter: Wouldn't that require electricians rather than mechanics? You don't call a plumber to fix a problem with the electricity in your house, do you? The same ought to apply to electric cars, just as it already applies to electric trains and trams. That's a distinction without a difference. Does the world have to be black and white? An electric vehicle is an electromechanical machine. In the event of failure of an electric car motor the same person will disassemble the motor (mechanical task) and repair it (possibly an electrical task). I successfully maintained sophisticated electronic equipment for years, but I was not an electronics technician. I knew how to operate certain diagnostic devices and I knew how to swap boards, and that was enough. BTW, practically anyone who has owned a Prius or other electric or hybrid vehicle for 11+ years as I have will tell you that mechanical and electrical faults are quite unlikely. You'll be replacing brakes and wiper blades, starting batteries and drive belts. -- I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that you will say in your entire life. usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm |
#30
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Is Elon Musk ready for the straitjacket ?
Davoud:
Will there be flying electric cars? Paul Schlyter: No. If it flies then it's an airplane of some kind, not a car. There you go painting things black and white again. What would it be when it's driving down the road? You could as well say "No. If it drives on the road then it's a car of some kind, not an airplane." To avoid that semantic problem we have the expression "flying car." -- I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that you will say in your entire life. usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm |
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