Big Antarctic iceberg edges out to sea

On Monday, October 2, 2017 at 5:35:47 AM UTC-6, Mike Collins wrote:

Gary Harnagel wrote:

I have been trying to understand why the "Little Ice Age" happened in
the 18th century.

You missed the reforestation of Amazonia after the population crash. Note
that the little ice age was preceded by the only sustained drop in
atmospheric CO2 in the last two millennia.
Look at the evidence.

So low CO2 is bad :-)

I read somewhere that during the Little Ice Age, besides the shorter
summers, when they did plant crops, torrential rains washed seeds and
young plants out. That's consistent with increased clouding expected
from cosmic ray cloud seeding. There appears to be a confluence of a
number of factors.

There were two major factors: a plethora of volcanic eruptions
which heralded the end of the Medieval warm period and continued
for several centuries, and the Maunder minimum which occurred in the
1750's.
Volcanic activity is well understood, but why should sunspots be
correlated with warm periods (or lack thereof with cold)? After all,
sunspots are cooler than the rest of the sun. Part of the answer
came from CERN:

http://cloud.web.cern.ch/cloud

Cosmic rays cause nucleation of clouds. Another part comes from the
fact that there is a "yin-yang relationship" between cosmic rays and
sunspot activity:

http://news.spaceweather.com/cosmic-...ntensifying-2/

We are approaching the low point in solar activity and cosmic rays have
increased 13% over the last two years. That should promote increased
clouding.

Hopefully, this effect will soon be included in the climate models. It
should tend to ameliorate the dire predictions of present models.

Gary

It’s always daytime somewhere. In Europe countries buy and sell power in
large amounts. There’s no reason that solar power from Atlantic and
Pacific Ocean solar power stations can’t be used. Scotland and Ireland
are on the far west or Europe and could supply power to countries to
the east and during the long summer days to the south as well. The
Sahara could supply power to many countries.

Are you suggesting trans-Mediterranean power cable?

It’s being done now. England buys and sell ( mostly buys ) power from
France and Scotland.

Overland power transmission is easy.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/High...nt?wprov=sfti1

Germany is planning a huge artificial island in the middle of the North
Sea to service and get power from a wind farm far bigger than anything
currently existing.

Does the wind blow all the time up there?

Pretty much.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offs...er?wprov=sfti1

Backup power is still needed for the times when winds aren't favorable.

And even without this batteries and pumped storage can keep things working
at night.

Pumped storage, yes. Batteries, not quite ready for prime time.

I wouldn’t trust any government with an orbiting potential weapons system
like a solar shield if there were any other alternative.

Why would solar screens be weapons?

The ability to ensure no harvest for a country or region.

I think that's a bit paranoid.

On Mon, 2 Oct 2017 11:35:44 -0000 (UTC), Mike Collins wrote:

Why would solar screens be weapons?

The ability to ensure no harvest for a country or region.

I think solar screens would make a very poor weapon system.

In paricular, I do not beleive that screens have any strategic
deterrence/defensive value; and that their use offensively against any
nation with a credible military / nuclear weapons would be both foolish
and futile.

I also suspect that screens could be vulneable to very simple
countermeasures that would defeat their use.

--
Email address is a Spam trap.

Gary Harnagel wrote:
On Sunday, October 1, 2017 at 4:30:52 PM UTC-6, Mike Collins wrote:

Gary Harnagel wrote:

Actually, we have several reasonable alternatives. Solar and wind are the
technologies of choice right now, but solar can't produce power at night
and wind can't when the wind doesn't blow or when it blows too hard. I
believe you once mentioned covering land with recycled plastic sheets,
didn't you? And I mentioned putting up giant sunshades in orbit.

Carleton Coon pointed out that the history of mankind involves putting
energy into social structure. Energy use increases as a civilization
advances, and this is evident:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ion_per_capita

Certainly we'll have to do something about CO2 at some point because the
sinks have limits and the system is closed. Also, even if we strike a
balance for CO2, increasing energy requirements will result in the
ultimate pollution: waste heat.

....
I have been trying to understand why the "Little Ice Age" happened in the
18th century. There were two major factors: a plethora of volcanic
eruptions which heralded the end of the Medieval warm period and continued
for several centuries, and the Maunder minimum which occurred in the 1750's.
Volcanic activity is well understood, but why should sunspots be correlated
with warm periods (or lack thereof with cold)? After all, sunspots are
cooler than the rest of the sun. Part of the answer came from CERN:

http://cloud.web.cern.ch/cloud

Cosmic rays cause nucleation of clouds. Another part comes from the fact
that there is a "yin-yang relationship" between cosmic rays and sunspot
activity:

http://news.spaceweather.com/cosmic-...ntensifying-2/

We are approaching the low point in solar activity and cosmic rays have
increased 13% over the last two years. That should promote increased
clouding.

Hopefully, this effect will soon be included in the climate models. It
should tend to ameliorate the dire predictions of present models.

Gary
It’s always daytime somewhere. In Europe countries buy and sell power in
large amounts. There’s no reason that solar power from Atlantic and Pacific
Ocean solar power stations can’t be used. Scotland and Ireland are on the
far west or Europe and could supply power to countries to the east and
during the long summer days to the south as well. The Sahara could supply
power to many countries.

Are you suggesting trans-Mediterranean power cable?

It’s being done now. England buys and sell ( mostly buys ) power from
France and Scotland.

Overland power transmission is easy.

Germany is planning a huge artificial island in the middle of the North Sea
to service and get power from a wind farm far bigger than anything
currently existing.

Does the wind blow all the time up there?

And even without this batteries and pumped storage can keep things working
at night.

Pumped storage, yes. Batteries, not quite ready for prime time.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...r-los-angeles/


I wouldn’t trust any government with an orbiting potential weapons system
like a solar shield if there were any other alternative.

Why would solar screens be weapons?

In a sane world North Korea would be using its massive uranium reserves
to sell nuclear power to the surrounding countries.

Gov't. folks have been saying NK is rational. I guess you just proved
them wrong.

In a sane world power resources like the Bristol Channel would have been
generating electricity long ago. The French have had a tidal power station
in Brittany for at least 50 years.

On Thursday, October 5, 2017 at 12:39:04 PM UTC-6, Mike Collins wrote:

Gary Harnagel wrote:
On Sunday, October 1, 2017 at 4:30:52 PM UTC-6, Mike Collins wrote:

Pumped storage, yes. Batteries, not quite ready for prime time.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...r-los-angeles/

"The mega-battery won’t be up and running for five years, and Southern
California needs more energy storage capacity yesterday."

It's coming, but it's not here yet. And there will certainly be problems
getting it to running properly. They can probably do it in four years
given this 30 MW facility is already online:

http://www.utilitydive.com/news/sdge...n-cali/436832/

They have apparently solved the cooling problem that Li-ion batteries had
on airplanes. Being on the ground and not weight-limited helps :-)

Thanks for the heads-up, Mike.

Gary Harnagel wrote in
:

On Thursday, October 5, 2017 at 12:39:04 PM UTC-6, Mike Collins
wrote:

Gary Harnagel wrote:
On Sunday, October 1, 2017 at 4:30:52 PM UTC-6, Mike Collins
wrote:

Pumped storage, yes. Batteries, not quite ready for prime
time.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...-largest-stora
ge-batter
y-will-power-los-angeles/

"The mega-battery won’t be up and running for five years, and
Southern California needs more energy storage capacity
yesterday."

It's coming, but it's not here yet. And there will certainly be
problems getting it to running properly. They can probably do
it in four years given this 30 MW facility is already online:

How long do the batteries last, and what do they cost to replace?
And how much do they cost to recycle.

More important, has anybody asked those questions in an official
capacity? In California, electrical utilities are too
"deregulated" to be capable of functional brain cells.

http://www.utilitydive.com/news/sdge...ds-largest-lit
hium-ion-battery-storage-online-in-cali/436832/

They have apparently solved the cooling problem that Li-ion
batteries had on airplanes. Being on the ground and not
weight-limited helps :-)

Li-ion batteries never had a cooling problem on airplanes. They had
a defective design problem, and less recently, a defective
manufacturing problem, but never a cooling problem.

--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

On Friday, October 6, 2017 at 9:14:07 PM UTC-6, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:

Gary Harnagel wrote in
:

On Thursday, October 5, 2017 at 12:39:04 PM UTC-6, Mike Collins
wrote:

https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...-largest-stora
ge-battery-will-power-los-angeles/

"The mega-battery won’t be up and running for five years, and
Southern California needs more energy storage capacity
yesterday."

It's coming, but it's not here yet. And there will certainly be
problems getting it to running properly. They can probably do
it in four years given this 30 MW facility is already online:

How long do the batteries last, and what do they cost to replace?
And how much do they cost to recycle.

Those are good questions. My hybrid is 10 years old and the Li-ion
batteries are still working. I've heard it costs about $4K to replace
them. Not sure how much energy they store.

More important, has anybody asked those questions in an official
capacity? In California, electrical utilities are too
"deregulated" to be capable of functional brain cells.

That's strange, they over-regulate practically everything else.

http://www.utilitydive.com/news/sdge...ds-largest-lit
hium-ion-battery-storage-online-in-cali/436832/

They have apparently solved the cooling problem that Li-ion
batteries had on airplanes. Being on the ground and not
weight-limited helps :-)

Li-ion batteries never had a cooling problem on airplanes. They had
a defective design problem, and less recently, a defective
manufacturing problem, but never a cooling problem.

I didn't know that. I DO know that Li-ion batteries have problems if
they are over-charged. I also bought Li-ion batteries (18650) of
various manufacturers and found that most were enthusiastically over-
rated.

--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

Gary Harnagel wrote in
:

On Friday, October 6, 2017 at 9:14:07 PM UTC-6, Gutless Umbrella
Carrying Sissy wrote:

Gary Harnagel wrote in
:

On Thursday, October 5, 2017 at 12:39:04 PM UTC-6, Mike
Collins wrote:

https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...ld-s-largest-s
tora ge-battery-will-power-los-angeles/

"The mega-battery won’t be up and running for five years,
and Southern California needs more energy storage capacity
yesterday."

It's coming, but it's not here yet. And there will certainly
be problems getting it to running properly. They can
probably do it in four years given this 30 MW facility is
already online:

How long do the batteries last, and what do they cost to
replace? And how much do they cost to recycle.

Those are good questions.

Those are necessary questions, that manufacturers are often very
reluctant to answer.

My hybrid is 10 years old and the
Li-ion batteries are still working.

But not at the same capacity.

I've heard it costs about
$4K to replace them. Not sure how much energy they store.

That's roughly the equivalent to replacing the engine on a gasoline
powered car.

More important, has anybody asked those questions in an
official capacity? In California, electrical utilities are too
"deregulated" to be capable of functional brain cells.

That's strange, they over-regulate practically everything else.

It's all about money. Electricity was "deregulated" because there
were people who were not part of the electricity generating
industry who felt they weren't making enough money maniupating the
market, so they bought enough state legislators to "deregulate" the
market. But thye only deregulated half the market - the half that
****s over the consumer - and left the other half alone - because
that favored the maniuplators. And that's how you get rolling
blackouts in LA, and some of the most expensive electricity in the
United States.

http://www.utilitydive.com/news/sdge...orlds-largest-
lit hium-ion-battery-storage-online-in-cali/436832/

They have apparently solved the cooling problem that Li-ion
batteries had on airplanes. Being on the ground and not
weight-limited helps :-)

Li-ion batteries never had a cooling problem on airplanes. They
had a defective design problem, and less recently, a defective
manufacturing problem, but never a cooling problem.

I didn't know that. I DO know that Li-ion batteries have
problems if they are over-charged.

That's why you _never_ see Li-ion batters sold (to consumers,
anyway) without computer circuitry that controls how much of a
charge it gets, and shuts the charging down at a certain point.

They will also catch fire if the charge is allowed to go too *low*,
so when your phone says "0%," it's actually got 3-5% left. Anything
lower than that, and it becomes hazardous. (I have a tablet I use
as a bookreader that warns me at 6%, again at 4%, and shuts down at
2%. It *will* *not* go below that.)

I also bought Li-ion
batteries (18650) of various manufacturers and found that most
were enthusiastically over- rated.

That's pretty common in all industries. (Though oddly, my new
Toyota beats the highway mileage rating on the sticker by about
10%.)

--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

On Saturday, October 14, 2017 at 1:32:41 PM UTC-6, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:

Gary Harnagel wrote in
:

On Friday, October 6, 2017 at 9:14:07 PM UTC-6, Gutless Umbrella
Carrying Sissy wrote:

How long do the batteries last, and what do they cost to
replace? And how much do they cost to recycle.

Those are good questions.

Those are necessary questions, that manufacturers are often very
reluctant to answer.

My hybrid is 10 years old and the
Li-ion batteries are still working.

But not at the same capacity.

Probably not, but how do you know that?

I've heard it costs about
$4K to replace them. Not sure how much energy they store.

That's roughly the equivalent to replacing the engine on a gasoline
powered car.

Dang inflation. I put a rebuilt engine in my car for one-tenth that
many years ago!

More important, has anybody asked those questions in an
official capacity? In California, electrical utilities are too
"deregulated" to be capable of functional brain cells.

That's strange, they over-regulate practically everything else.

It's all about money. Electricity was "deregulated" because there
were people who were not part of the electricity generating
industry who felt they weren't making enough money maniupating the
market, so they bought enough state legislators to "deregulate" the
market. But thye only deregulated half the market - the half that
****s over the consumer - and left the other half alone - because
that favored the maniuplators. And that's how you get rolling
blackouts in LA, and some of the most expensive electricity in the
United States.

I left the LA area VERY long ago and moved to the Bay Area. I left the
Bay Area a decade ago. I don't have rolling blackouts or expensive
electricity.

Li-ion batteries never had a cooling problem on airplanes. They
had a defective design problem, and less recently, a defective
manufacturing problem, but never a cooling problem.

I didn't know that. I DO know that Li-ion batteries have
problems if they are over-charged.

That's why you _never_ see Li-ion batters sold (to consumers,
anyway) without computer circuitry that controls how much of a
charge it gets, and shuts the charging down at a certain point.

Perhaps the batteries that won't charge to their advertised capacities
have defective internal circuitry? :-))

CHARGERS have the circuitry that controls charging shutdown.

They will also catch fire if the charge is allowed to go too *low*,
so when your phone says "0%," it's actually got 3-5% left. Anything
lower than that, and it becomes hazardous. (I have a tablet I use
as a bookreader that warns me at 6%, again at 4%, and shuts down at
2%. It *will* *not* go below that.)

I also bought Li-ion
batteries (18650) of various manufacturers and found that most
were enthusiastically over- rated.

That's pretty common in all industries. (Though oddly, my new
Toyota beats the highway mileage rating on the sticker by about
10%.)

--
Terry Austin

I have a 2007 Highlander and it NEVER beat the sticker numbers.

Gary Harnagel wrote in
:

On Saturday, October 14, 2017 at 1:32:41 PM UTC-6, Gutless
Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:

Gary Harnagel wrote in
:

On Friday, October 6, 2017 at 9:14:07 PM UTC-6, Gutless
Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:

How long do the batteries last, and what do they cost to
replace? And how much do they cost to recycle.

Those are good questions.

Those are necessary questions, that manufacturers are often
very reluctant to answer.

My hybrid is 10 years old and the
Li-ion batteries are still working.

But not at the same capacity.

Probably not, but how do you know that?

Because the deterioration of Li-ion batteries is a very well
understood, well documented phenomenon. Even if you haven't used it
a single time, they no longer have the same capacity.

I've heard it costs about
$4K to replace them. Not sure how much energy they store.

That's roughly the equivalent to replacing the engine on a
gasoline powered car.

Dang inflation. I put a rebuilt engine in my car for one-tenth
that many years ago!

And? That wouldn't pay for a new engine in my (now ex-) Mercedes,
with a supercharger, but I'm sure it would for the average ten year
old car.

More important, has anybody asked those questions in an
official capacity? In California, electrical utilities are
too "deregulated" to be capable of functional brain cells.

That's strange, they over-regulate practically everything
else.

It's all about money. Electricity was "deregulated" because
there were people who were not part of the electricity
generating industry who felt they weren't making enough money
maniupating the market, so they bought enough state legislators
to "deregulate" the market. But thye only deregulated half the
market - the half that ****s over the consumer - and left the
other half alone - because that favored the maniuplators. And
that's how you get rolling blackouts in LA, and some of the
most expensive electricity in the United States.

I left the LA area VERY long ago and moved to the Bay Area.

So you pulled your dick out of the hand grinder and shoved it into
the electric one?

I
left the Bay Area a decade ago. I don't have rolling blackouts
or expensive electricity.

Precisely.

Li-ion batteries never had a cooling problem on airplanes.
They had a defective design problem, and less recently, a
defective manufacturing problem, but never a cooling
problem.

I didn't know that. I DO know that Li-ion batteries have
problems if they are over-charged.

That's why you _never_ see Li-ion batters sold (to consumers,
anyway) without computer circuitry that controls how much of a
charge it gets, and shuts the charging down at a certain point.

Perhaps the batteries that won't charge to their advertised
capacities have defective internal circuitry? :-))

Or perhaps they have a defective design. Or perhaps marketers
simply lie. I know which of those possibilities is common enough to
be the punch line of a million jokes.

CHARGERS have the circuitry that controls charging shutdown.

Batteries have circuitry that reports charge status.

They will also catch fire if the charge is allowed to go too
*low*, so when your phone says "0%," it's actually got 3-5%
left. Anything lower than that, and it becomes hazardous. (I
have a tablet I use as a bookreader that warns me at 6%, again
at 4%, and shuts down at 2%. It *will* *not* go below that.)

I also bought Li-ion
batteries (18650) of various manufacturers and found that
most were enthusiastically over- rated.

That's pretty common in all industries. (Though oddly, my new
Toyota beats the highway mileage rating on the sticker by about
10%.)

--
Terry Austin

I have a 2007 Highlander and it NEVER beat the sticker numbers.

I was quite surprised when I realized what was going on. On flat
ground, I've seen it as high as 42, which is about 15% better than
the sticker. Mixed city driving, it's far less, and since I don't
drive that far to work, often less than the sticker value over the
course of a full tank, but highway mileage seems to actually be
going *up* as the engine gets broken in. (Just passed 7,000 miles.
Should be stable now. Will go down slowly over time, but it'll take
a while to drop below the sticker value.)

In any event, from what I can tell, the simple cost of energy to
travel a mile favors gas by quite a bit. Electricity would have to
be six cents a KwH to be competetive to gas, based on what I'm
actually paying right now, and the cheapest off-time rate from
SoCal Edison is currently 16.

--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.