|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#31
|
|||
|
|||
Hillary Clinton Declares War on....I TOLD YOU!
Rand Simberg wrote:
On Thu, 8 Nov 2007 23:46:36 -0500, in a place far, far away, "J. Clarke" made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such a way as to indicate that: Manned spaceflight will be affordable when the general state of the art allows it to be. Right now any focussed effort is likely to just waste money. That depends on how the money is spent. NASA has been trying to reduce launch costs by that approach By what approach? Attempting to reduce the costs of manned spaceflight. for going on 40 years now and they haven't succeeded. They've never really tried. The Space Shuttle looks like a Hell of a "try" to me. And they haven't come up with anything that is going to be significantly cheaper. Time to try something else. I didn't say NASA should do it, but NASA should be doing basic R&D as NACA used to. Yes, they should, which is what I said. -- -- --John to email, dial "usenet" and validate (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net) |
#32
|
|||
|
|||
Hillary Clinton Declares War on....I TOLD YOU!
On Fri, 9 Nov 2007 09:57:34 -0500, in a place far, far away, "J.
Clarke" made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such a way as to indicate that: Rand Simberg wrote: On Thu, 8 Nov 2007 23:46:36 -0500, in a place far, far away, "J. Clarke" made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such a way as to indicate that: Manned spaceflight will be affordable when the general state of the art allows it to be. Right now any focussed effort is likely to just waste money. That depends on how the money is spent. NASA has been trying to reduce launch costs by that approach By what approach? Attempting to reduce the costs of manned spaceflight. That's not an approach. It's a goal. What "approach" are you objecting to? for going on 40 years now and they haven't succeeded. They've never really tried. The Space Shuttle looks like a Hell of a "try" to me. Not really. And they haven't come up with anything that is going to be significantly cheaper. They haven't made a serious attempt. Time to try something else. I didn't say NASA should do it, but NASA should be doing basic R&D as NACA used to. Yes, they should, which is what I said. No, it's not. |
#33
|
|||
|
|||
Hillary Clinton Declares War on....I TOLD YOU!
"Jeff Findley" wrote:
: :"Fred J. McCall" wrote in message .. . : She doesn't want to move it into R&D. I'd expect the R&D budget to : get zeroed. She wants to move it into Earth Sciences. : : She has no interest in trying to "get the costs of manned space down : to something sustainable." Her interest is in killing manned space. : : :At least government funded manned space. In the long run, that might not be :a bad thing. It would certainly remove the uncertainty of competition from :the government when it comes to new launch vehicles (Ares I and V) and new :manned vehicles (Orion). : And how many folks currently getting government money dry up and blow away? If the government stops manned space flight I wouldn't expect private money to spend as much on it, either. -- "Millions for defense, but not one cent for tribute." -- Charles Pinckney |
#34
|
|||
|
|||
Hillary Clinton Declares War on....I TOLD YOU!
"Rand Simberg" wrote in message ... On Fri, 9 Nov 2007 09:57:34 -0500, in a place far, far away, "J. Clarke" made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such a way as to indicate that: The Space Shuttle looks like a Hell of a "try" to me. Not really. No kidding. It hasn't fundamentally changed since it started flying. Jeff -- "When transportation is cheap, frequent, reliable, and flexible, everything else becomes easier." - Jon Goff |
#35
|
|||
|
|||
Hillary Clinton Declares War on....I TOLD YOU!
Fred J. McCall wrote:
"J. Clarke" wrote: Fred J. McCall wrote: "J. Clarke" wrote: Manned spaceflight will be affordable when the general state of the art allows it to be. Right now any focussed effort is likely to just waste money. The 'general state of the art' isn't going to go much of anywhere unless someone is writing checks to develop it. So you're saying that if Hillary is elected then all aviation R&D will be discontinued? Ever notice how whenever someone tries to tell someone else what "you're saying" that they inevitably are trying to put together some straw man? It's a pretty weak rhetorical tactic, when it comes right down to it. Aviation isn't space flight. Aviation research doesn't do much to improve the 'general state of the art' when it comes to space flight. But most of the cost is not "space flight", it is getting to space through the atmosphere, and that is avaiation. When was the last time YOU saw a space vehicle powered by high-efficiency turbofans? We don't have to worry about "space vehicles" until we can get there for a reasonable price. -- -- --John to email, dial "usenet" and validate (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net) |
#36
|
|||
|
|||
Hillary Clinton Declares War on....I TOLD YOU!
"Fred J. McCall" wrote in message ... "Jeff Findley" wrote: :At least government funded manned space. In the long run, that might not be :a bad thing. It would certainly remove the uncertainty of competition from :the government when it comes to new launch vehicles (Ares I and V) and new :manned vehicles (Orion). And how many folks currently getting government money dry up and blow away? If the government stops manned space flight I wouldn't expect private money to spend as much on it, either. I figure if the next administration stops Ares and Orion development, NASA would get serious when it comes to commercial access to ISS. Jeff -- "When transportation is cheap, frequent, reliable, and flexible, everything else becomes easier." - Jon Goff |
#37
|
|||
|
|||
Hillary Clinton Declares War on....I TOLD YOU!
"J. Clarke" wrote:
:Rand Simberg wrote: : On Thu, 8 Nov 2007 23:46:36 -0500, in a place far, far away, "J. : Clarke" made the phosphor on my monitor : glow : in such a way as to indicate that: : : : Manned spaceflight will be affordable when the general state of : the : art allows it to be. Right now any focussed effort is likely to : just : waste money. : : That depends on how the money is spent. : : NASA has been trying to reduce launch costs by that approach : : By what approach? : :Attempting to reduce the costs of manned spaceflight. : Who? When? Where? How? Your two statement above say that "NASA has been trying to reduce launch costs by attempting to reduce the costs of manned spaceflight". When did NASA do that? : : : for going : on 40 years now and they haven't succeeded. : : They've never really tried. : :The Space Shuttle looks like a Hell of a "try" to me. : Then you're massively ignorant. They KNEW the operating costs for the Shuttle were going to be preposterously high. It was a deliberate decision made to try to reduce up-front costs. That's definitely not how you go about "attempting to reduce the costs of manned spaceflight". The Shuttle is pretty much the most expensive launch system in the world. : :And they :haven't come up with anything that is going to be significantly :cheaper. : That's because, contrary to your claim above, they are not trying to. -- "Ignorance is preferable to error, and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing than he who believes what is wrong." -- Thomas Jefferson |
#38
|
|||
|
|||
Hillary Clinton Declares War on....I TOLD YOU!
Fred J. McCall wrote:
"J. Clarke" wrote: Fred J. McCall wrote: "J. Clarke" wrote: Revision wrote: "Jonathan" Just like Space Solar Power seemed to dissappear almost overnight once someone told Bush there's this govt agency called NASA wanting to replace Texas crude with solar power. Heh heh ... it is hard to find a bigger moron than Bush, but alas we have a volunteer. First, anyone who works in the oil business knows that oil is a depleting asset, and anything that can slow the use of oil is welcome. Second, though I would rather have a broomstick 25 cm up my ass than see Hillary elected President, the fact remains than manned space has been an enormous cash drain at the expense of unmanned science probes, so if it is bad news for some that Hillary wants to move money from manned space to science, it is good news for others. If she wants to move it into R&D I'm all for that. R&D is what's going to ultimately get us a real space program. If NASA had put what it's spent on the Shuttle in the last 30 years into R&D then we'd likely have a moon base by now. What's needed is not "manned space at all costs", what's needed is to get the costs of manned space down to something sustainable. She doesn't want to move it into R&D. I'd expect the R&D budget to get zeroed. She wants to move it into Earth Sciences. So you're saying that Hillary will discontinue all Federally funded research of any kind? Do tell. Here he goes again. Do try to stick to the context when constructing your little straw people, won't you? What do you percieve to the "the context"? She has no interest in trying to "get the costs of manned space down to something sustainable." Her interest is in killing manned space. Good. In its current form it _needs_ killing. So you're anti-space? Just keep in mind that when money is removed from manned space, it also gets removed from unmanned space. Now what were you saying about straw men? -- -- --John to email, dial "usenet" and validate (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net) |
#39
|
|||
|
|||
Hillary Clinton Declares War on....I TOLD YOU!
In article ,
"Jeff Findley" wrote: "Fred J. McCall" wrote in message ... "Jeff Findley" wrote: :At least government funded manned space. In the long run, that might not be :a bad thing. It would certainly remove the uncertainty of competition from :the government when it comes to new launch vehicles (Ares I and V) and new :manned vehicles (Orion). And how many folks currently getting government money dry up and blow away? If the government stops manned space flight I wouldn't expect private money to spend as much on it, either. I figure if the next administration stops Ares and Orion development, NASA would get serious when it comes to commercial access to ISS. I'm a strong supporter of manned spaceflight -- but I agree, nothing would be better than for Ares and Orion to die a quiet death. NASA should be pushing the frontiers; access to orbit hasn't been a frontier for decades, and NASA should get out of that business. -- "Polywell" fusion -- an approach to nuclear fusion that might actually work. Learn more and discuss via: http://www.strout.net/info/science/polywell/ |
#40
|
|||
|
|||
Hillary Clinton Declares War on....I TOLD YOU!
Rand Simberg wrote:
On Fri, 9 Nov 2007 09:57:34 -0500, in a place far, far away, "J. Clarke" made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such a way as to indicate that: Rand Simberg wrote: On Thu, 8 Nov 2007 23:46:36 -0500, in a place far, far away, "J. Clarke" made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such a way as to indicate that: Manned spaceflight will be affordable when the general state of the art allows it to be. Right now any focussed effort is likely to just waste money. That depends on how the money is spent. NASA has been trying to reduce launch costs by that approach By what approach? Attempting to reduce the costs of manned spaceflight. That's not an approach. It's a goal. What "approach" are you objecting to? for going on 40 years now and they haven't succeeded. They've never really tried. The Space Shuttle looks like a Hell of a "try" to me. Not really. So what would such a try cost if the billions spent on the Shuttle weren't enough? And they haven't come up with anything that is going to be significantly cheaper. They haven't made a serious attempt. So what would be a "serious attempt"? Time to try something else. I didn't say NASA should do it, but NASA should be doing basic R&D as NACA used to. Yes, they should, which is what I said. No, it's not. Yes, it is. "basic R&D" is not directed toward any specific goal. You seem to want _directed_ R&D. -- -- --John to email, dial "usenet" and validate (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net) |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Hillary Clinton Declares War on Space Exploration | Mark R. Whittington | Policy | 85 | November 16th 07 10:25 PM |
[FWD] Bill Clinton told he needs heart bypass surgery... | OM | History | 5 | September 4th 04 02:49 PM |