What sort of space presence after collapse of the nation-state?

On Monday, July 14, 2014 8:16:23 AM UTC+12, Fred J. McCall wrote:
William Mook wrote:



If you scratch the surface and ask people why America (or any nation) lacks the will to develop resources and a human presence off-world, most will reply its too costly. This is not consistent with a wealthy world. This is consistent with a world beat down by poverty.





No, this is consistent with a world that has other things to do with

the money that have better short term returns.



snip





--

"Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar

territory."

--G. Behn

Nonsense. Real investments in real wealth production challenges those who benefit from artificial scarcity.

This is why synthetic instruments were illegal prior to 1999. Synthetic instruments, like credit default swaps were illegal prior to 1999 when Clinton legalized them. Since 1999 these have grown to over $4 quadrillion of unsustainable investments designed to implode the productive economy and benefit the minority who have always benefited from artificial scarcity.

The elite were allowed to do this because as Ted Turner is fond of saying, there are too many people using too much stuff, and we need to cull human numbers.

Obviously if you're going to kill of 95% of humanity, you want the top 1% to be preserved. Hence, 'too big to fail, too big to jail' mentality among politicians who are selected because they have something to hide that the 1% knows they can use to black mail them whenever they don't support the interests of the 1% who are parasites on the rest of us.

When parasites turn deadly to their hosts, the hosts become resistant to the parasites. This is bad news for the parasites. That's why you don't see parasites killing their hosts. Hosts that are not resistant to deadly parasites die and cannot support the parasites. Hosts that survive are resistant to deadly parasites, and co not support the parasites. Whenever you start killing large numbers any organism, you end up with resistant organisms whether they are bacteria or men.

In light of this biological fact, its clear that the current age of profound ignorance regarding the role the parasites play in shaping our culture and our views of reality stem from the massive increase in human numbers. Reducing the rate of increase in well being and in population growth since the assassination of JFK in 1963, has caused a profound and general awakening in human consciousness. Any attempt to radically reduce human numbers will very likely lead to the abject destruction of the parasites for this reason.

This will result in the destruction of the nation-state and the release of resources to activities that produce profound changes in human existence.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0e2FJmXujA

In article ,
says...

even during apollo many people believed going to the moon was a
total waste of money

It was a lot of money to spend on a prick waving contest, to be sure.
But we sure showed those godless commies who's was bigger, even though
the length and stamina of the project was quite short lived (funding was
cut severely even before a successful manned moon landing was
accomplished). Yup, we sure showed them how to prematurely cancel a
manned space program. 'Merica!

Now fast forward ahead all these years and ask people you know
about a mars mission.

What Mars mission? The long line of unmanned toasters or the long line
of proposed manned Mars missions which are never funded when Congress
sees the price tag NASA proposes?

waste of money will be the number 1 answer

And they'd be right for most NASA projects. NASA has a very long post-
Apollo/Saturn history of wasting money on programs that literally go
nowhere beyond LEO.

NASA needs to be focusing on lowering the cost of access to space by
promoting commercial approaches to everything it can. Unfortunately,
commercial crew has had to fight for every scrap of funding it can get
while Orion/SLS keeps awarding multi-billion dollar contracts for a
program which is constantly delayed and cut back.

Politics is an ugly thing and NASA bears the scars of politics all the
way back to its creation from NACA.

Jeff
--
"the perennial claim that hypersonic airbreathing propulsion would
magically make space launch cheaper is nonsense -- LOX is much cheaper
than advanced airbreathing engines, and so are the tanks to put it in
and the extra thrust to carry it." - Henry Spencer

http://www.dcclothesline.com/2014/07...inous-warning/

We're within 5 years of a new dark age.

On Monday, July 14, 2014 11:33:11 PM UTC+12, Jeff Findley wrote:
In article ,

says...



even during apollo many people believed going to the moon was a

total waste of money


Only after LBJ eliminated NERVA and turned JFK's space programme into a man on the moon programme.

http://www.jfklibrary.org/Asset-View...uNHbmqm1Q.aspx

Which would have reached out to the Soviets and avoid not only Vietnam, but also end the Cold War and with it, save the economies of both nations.

http://www.jfklibrary.org/Asset-View...9J6I8oy8w.aspx

On Tuesday, July 15, 2014 3:34:34 AM UTC+12, Fred J. McCall wrote:
William Mook wrote:



On Monday, July 14, 2014 8:16:23 AM UTC+12, Fred J. McCall wrote:

William Mook wrote:



If you scratch the surface and ask people why America (or any nation) lacks the will to develop resources and a human presence off-world, most will reply its too costly. This is not consistent with a wealthy world. This is consistent with a world beat down by poverty.





No, this is consistent with a world that has other things to do with

the money that have better short term returns.





Nonsense. Real investments in real wealth production challenges those who benefit from artificial scarcity.





So your claim is that everyone but you is stupid. Yeah, sure...


Nonsense. Many people smarter than I know that all scarcity is artificially created and maintained.

Artificial scarcity is scarcity that is maintained even though the technology and production capacity exists to create an abundance.

The inefficiency associated with artificial scarcity is formally known as a deadweight loss.

Artificially Scarce Goods

Goods and services are classified based on two characteristics

1) excludability and
2) rivalness in consumption.

A good or service is excludable if the supplier can prevent those who do not pay from consuming it.

A non-excludable good cannot be prevented from being consumed by anyone.

A good or service is rival in consumption if the same unit cannot be consumed by more than one person at a time,

A non-rival good can be consumed by many simultaneously.

Non-rival goods therefore have the unique characteristic that the additional cost of adding one more consumer is not possible.

Private goods are the only goods and services that can be efficiently produced and consumed in a competitive market.

All private goods are obviously excludable and rival in consumption, whereas all public goods are non-excludable and non-rival in consumption.

Most investors are interested in the category of goods and services which is excludable and non-rival in consumption.

These goods and services are called "artificially scarce goods".

Though the marginal cost of allowing an additional consumer for such such goods and services is zero, they are always supplied at a cost to the consumer.

These goods and services however suffer from difficulty in fixing their prices.


Examples

The most common text book examples of such goods are computer software and pay-per-view television. Yet these can extend to any resource.

Oppenheimer's family cartel, DeBeer's creates an artificial scarcity through its CSO - Central Selling Organization.

The Disney vault is a concept where popular Disney properties are only sold over short time spans, and then locked away for numerous years, in order to give customers added incentive to buy for fear of 'missing out'.

The Simpsons destroy many of their animation cels in order to make the remaining ones more valuable.

Basic necessities that cannot support efficient markets are generally offered as public utilities, or regulated in some way to avoid artificial scarcity.

Access to water and sewerage distribution networks, and by implication access to water supply and sewerage services, are also examples of excludable and non-rival services.

How much would you pay for water if you're thirsty? How much would you pay for sewerage services if you're drowning in crap? Obviously the market making mechanism is inefficient for these services since artificial scarcity is maintained so easily.

Even though these have historically been provided as public utilities, for this reason, the continuing erosion of education and the erosion of an effective media media has caused many of these utilities to be privatized despite the great human cost.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWkA-uAPXCE

http://www.foodandwaterwatch.org/doc/Fiascos.pdf

All the other utility services - electricity, telephone, cable TV - suffer from this same problem.

As any educated person could tell you, if you were capable of listening to such people.




snip Maniacal Mookery



--

"Ordinarily he is insane. But he has lucid moments when he is

only stupid."

-- Heinrich Heine

The point is, that without effective media or governance, investors see less risk and greater returns investing in schemes to create and maintain artificial scarcity, in energy, in water, in housing, in medicine, in food, in credit, in anything they can get away with. This removes money from real innovation and real expansion of capacity based on development of new techniques and new resources off-world.

Many people smarter than I know that all scarcity is artificially created
and maintained.


Then you must be remarkably stupid, because nobody sane or sensible
believes that.



http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...oples-assembly

An estimated 50,000 people in London protest austerity measures.


http://america.aljazeera.com/article...yprotests.html

Thousands protest austerity in Rome and Paris

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...A2L0LP20140322

Thousands protest austerity in Spain which turn violent.

http://www.popularresistance.org/how...-of-austerity/

Thousands protest austerity in the USA.

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/04...erity-protest/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6HItbC4bQE

Thousands protest austerity in Greece.

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/07...nst-austerity/

Thousands protest austerity in Portugal

http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?...&jumival=10162

Protests of worker condition in Bangladesh

Austerity is merely another form of looting. Anyone who thinks otherwise insane.

On Friday, July 11, 2014 2:53:58 AM UTC-7, William Mook wrote:
What sort of space presence will be maintained by humanity after collapse of the nation-state?


Anyone or any small group, or several, that creates a self-replicating machine cell in combination with super-human machine intelligence will alter everything!


In combination of the awakening of mankind to the fraud that is government, will spell the end of government and the nation-state.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvmpH0xMcPQ


Here's how I see the leading points of erosion of power of the nation-state proceeding.


Consider, world-wide here are the primary instruments that nation-states project military power;


Main Battle Tank: 88,603

Combat Aircraft: 28,600

Nuclear Weapons: 22,600

Attack Helicopter: 10,588

Frigates: 562

Patrol Boats: 468

Conventional Subs: 356

Corvettes: 320

Amphibious WS: 181

Destroyers: 180

Nuclear Subs: 134

Cruisers: 28

Aircraft Carriers: 23


Any pervasive system of surveillance built around self-replicating systems feeding 'big data' of broadly held AI, easily identifies the location of each of these.


The use of solar powered 'smart dust' continuously erodes performance of each piece of equipment, over a short period of time in a covert manner incapacitates all of these in an 8 hour period once the location of all are identified.


The method of induced failure need not be dramatic. The engines merely fail over an 8 hour period.


In every engine there is a cooling requirement which requires that air or water be used to dump this heat overboard. These are avenues of attack for 'smart dust' that over a short period of time causes the engines to cease operations.


Easily identified avenues of attack define the swarming behaviour of micro-robot population which is easily programmed to cause failure of these engines.


So, what would happen to today's nation states with all these systems inoperative?


Other avenues of attack also suggest themselves in similar vein.


For example, all nuclear weapons require a shaped charge explosive to compress nuclear materials for prompt reaction to create an explosive yield. All conventional weapons require accurate detonation of shaped charges of one type or another to be detonated to operate the weapon.


Understanding the detonation process for these explosives permits the creation of 'smart dust' that crawls into the mechanisms involved and carry out procedures that inactivate the triggering mechanism, inactivating all weapons.


How would the world change if all the primary instruments of projecting military power were inactivated along with a high probability of misfire among all publicly owned firearms and all explosives mechanisms? (with privately held firearms unaffected)?


This is something that is deployed relatively quickly once proper tooling is in place.


In combination with public disclosure over the internet of clear evidence of all wrong doing detailing information gathered by the same surveillance network that identified the location of all major military equipment - and in combination with alternative systems of finance and governance - things change rather quickly.


Eliminating the tools of warfare is one factor. We must then look at the population involved in violence as well.


Of the 7,120 millions alive today approximately 61 millions are either trained to use violence, or experienced users of violence, of violent means of persuasion. This includes all military and police personnel as well as gang members and individual criminals.


Those who engage in violent activity are easily identified by a number of forensic factors. These individuals are easily incapacitated without significant harm.

How?


Well, being violently ill with vomiting and loose stool combined with fever and muscle weakness, brought about my virus sized robots. Among this group of individuals when the biological precursors to violence are indicated are made violently ill for a period of time. This has a chilling effect on this group psychologically well beyond the actions of the virus.


Combined with the incapacitation of all weapons in public possession along with other subtle erosion of authority (degrading uniforms, identification, badges, skin health, breathing, body odour, etc.) virtually eliminates violence and threats of violence as a means to maintain and project power.


In combination with public disclosure of the details of each person's violent acts after a certain point things will right themselves rather quickly..


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GOp3kqUYDo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLj-2IJ4pdk

Sounds like ETs will have little if any problems in dealing with us.

Name calling has no power to persuade a thinking person any more.