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gratitude etc. (was Apollo: One gas environment?)



 
 
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  #73  
Old May 14th 04, 09:14 PM
Derek Lyons
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OM om@our_blessed_lady_mary_of_the_holy_NASA_researc h_facility.org
wrote:

...And I'm cuing Derek in on this one for his comments: The "Kobiashi
Maru" scenario they used to give was this: you're stationed on a sub.


And like the fictional Kobayashi Maru this one is filled with holes
and contradictions in an attempt to force the trainee into giving the
right answer without actually training him on how to reach that
conclusion. In the ST KM scenario, the pre-ordained answer is 'die
gallantly'. In your scenario, it's the Naval line; 'An officer can be
wrong, but he cannot be indecisive or hesitant'.

The simple fact of the matter is this; You do not launch, *EVER*
without positive launch authority, *EVER*. (Such authority can be
obtained by means other than a flash message, but that's enough said
on that topic.)

How we would have reacted as individuals was something rarely
discussed, as an incorrect launch was a nightmare scenario, completely
contrary to our training and philosphy. How I would have reacted
personally is matter between myself and $DIETY.

D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.
  #74  
Old May 14th 04, 11:31 PM
Pat Flannery
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OM wrote:

...Which are far more tolerable than his mating habits, natch.


Years ago one of the tabloids got a shot of Teddy banging a girl in a
speedboat; when shown it, a fellow senator said "Well Teddy, I see
you've changed your position on offshore drilling." :-)

Pat

  #75  
Old May 14th 04, 11:31 PM
Herb Schaltegger
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In article ,
(Derek Lyons) wrote:

In your scenario, it's the Naval line; 'An officer can be
wrong, but he cannot be indecisive or hesitant'.


In many forms of melee combat (whether involving groups of troops on the
ground, ships at sea wailing at one another with large caliber ordnance,
or in the archetypal aviation dog fight), this axiom works remarkably
well and it works for a very simple reason - the indecisive officer
usually has his troops/squadron/element DOING NOTHING (or, more or less
the same thing, continuing to advance with no change of formation),
making them very easy targets. Doing something, even if it later turns
out to be the wrong thing, at least makes you more difficult targets and
often gets you out of the line of fire of the most immediate threat.
Now, you may well bumble into a bigger threat, but not always and that
first action, however hasty, can buy you needed time to figure out what
you should have done in the first place and how to obtain that objective
from your current situation.

This was drilled into me in college. I was leading a formation of about
15 through a field training exercise when the smoke grenades and blanks
started going off around us. It was a mixed group of AF and Army ROTC
cadets undergoing "Hell Week" for Scabbard and Blade and the trainers
thought it would be funny to put one of the AF guys (me) in charge.
Well, hell, I could've lectured them on Billy Mitchell's evangelism re
big bombers or about Curt LeMay and the genesis of SAC's organizational
structure (this was in the glory days late in Reagan's second term - we
still had SAC, TAC, et cetera), but what the heck did I know about
ordering troops around? While fumbling around to figure out the
commands - I knew what to DO but not how to command others to actually
do it! - the Army guy acting as platoon sergeant starts giving orders
and all his buddies scramble away and disburse to cover - leaving us
seven or eight AF people "dead" in the kill box.

**** like that made me glad to be a "wing nut" rather than a "ground
pounder."

--
Herb Schaltegger, B.S., J.D.
Reformed Aerospace Engineer
Columbia Loss FAQ:
http://www.io.com/~o_m/columbia_loss_faq_x.html
  #76  
Old May 14th 04, 11:59 PM
OM
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On Fri, 14 May 2004 20:14:44 GMT, (Derek
Lyons) wrote:

OM om@our_blessed_lady_mary_of_the_holy_NASA_researc h_facility.org
wrote:

...And I'm cuing Derek in on this one for his comments: The "Kobiashi
Maru" scenario they used to give was this: you're stationed on a sub.


And like the fictional Kobayashi Maru this one is filled with holes
and contradictions in an attempt to force the trainee into giving the
right answer without actually training him on how to reach that
conclusion. In the ST KM scenario, the pre-ordained answer is 'die
gallantly'. In your scenario, it's the Naval line; 'An officer can be
wrong, but he cannot be indecisive or hesitant'.


....And that, as we were later made to understand during the final
"Captain's Table" course that was always held at 0700 for no reason
other than to mess with our senior year partying, was what that
particular exam was about. The only thing the unit CO wished could be
changed was that each midshipman was given x number of seconds to make
the decision, but CNET didn't want to go *that* intensive. Wait until
they get to actual service was apparently their idea.

The simple fact of the matter is this; You do not launch, *EVER*
without positive launch authority, *EVER*.


....Where nukes are concerned, yes. Conventional weapons don't fall
under that category, apparently.

(Such authority can be obtained by means other than a flash message, but that's enough said
on that topic.)


....Agreed. No sense talking about the dolphin/porpoise relay system
they developed, as it'll give Rand something else to twist into
nonsense :-P

How we would have reacted as individuals was something rarely
discussed, as an incorrect launch was a nightmare scenario, completely
contrary to our training and philosphy. How I would have reacted
personally is matter between myself and $DIETY.


....And again, it was only raised during two points in the program:
during a second-year course on leadership and following orders, and
the "Captain's Table" course, which was, IMHO, both the biggest waste
of sleep but the most insightful course I've ever taken. Everything
we'd been taught was actually put into place where it all gelled and
made sense. Wasn't as fun as Weapons Systems I & II, but it opened my
eyes to why we were being taught what we were taught and why it was
being taught that way.

....And, just for the record, while I won't say which answer I chose, I
will point out that I'd also added a D) option of my own just to screw
with the NOI giving the exam:

D) Shoot the Captain, take over the sub, and launch the missiles
myself so I could take the credit and the glory for having rid the
world of the Evil Communist Menace.

....The scary part is that I wasn't the only one who'd made that one
up. Apparently at least one or two midshipmen a year would go that
route just to mess with the NOIs.

OM

--

"No ******* ever won a war by dying for |
http://www.io.com/~o_m
his country. He won it by making the other | Sergeant-At-Arms
poor dumb ******* die for his country." | Human O-Ring Society

- General George S. Patton, Jr
  #77  
Old May 15th 04, 12:07 AM
OM
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On Fri, 14 May 2004 13:58:48 -0500, Pat Flannery
wrote:

Although the Zima Citrus (now Zima Lime, or something like that) wasn't
too bad....but then there was the horrifying Zima Dark...which was
supposed to taste like either whiskey and coke or rum and coke...and
actually tasted like acetone and ****; how that stuff ever got past the
company's product development team is beyond me.


....Because it *was* acetone and ****. Some Zima marketing goon
apparently found a couple of barrels of it in a warehouse, and decided
that if he diluted it, he could market it.

Hey, can you think of any *other* excuse for that drek?

OM

--

"No ******* ever won a war by dying for | http://www.io.com/~o_m
his country. He won it by making the other | Sergeant-At-Arms
poor dumb ******* die for his country." | Human O-Ring Society

- General George S. Patton, Jr
  #78  
Old May 15th 04, 12:13 AM
OM
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On Fri, 14 May 2004 13:50:25 -0500, Pat Flannery
wrote:

A&W or Shasta Cream Soda with vodka...not bad at all.


....First off, A&W should only be drunk if it comes from the tap. A&W
in can is fatal if consumed, and from the plastic bottle it can cause
blindness.

....As for Shasta, we used to get that down here, but since Sam's went
their own cola route we get theirs. It's not bad, but doesn't mix well
with any sort of alcohol.

....And then there's Frostie. It's being sold again for about a buck a
bottle now, but they also went the corn syrup route. It's not worth
it.

And then of course there was the Brandy Alexander Imperials:
Remy Martin Cognac, Dom Perignon Champagne, Hagen-Daz ice cream with
grated Godiva chocolate on it, topped by a macadamia nut. Very
good....and very expensive.


....Oh great, someone else who likes that "gee, let's mix our lousy
champange with a fruit punch and see if anyone bites when we claim
it's the next 'in' thing!" crap that Remy's putting out these days.
Between that and HQ, nobody better complain about my mixtures again.

....As for Godiva, the white choc liquore is pretty good, but a bit
more expensive than I'm willing to dish out these days. $50 a bottle
is too much for someone who has to drink 2-3 times more than most to
stay buzzed due to his ability to process alcohol faster than most.

OM

--

"No ******* ever won a war by dying for | http://www.io.com/~o_m
his country. He won it by making the other | Sergeant-At-Arms
poor dumb ******* die for his country." | Human O-Ring Society

- General George S. Patton, Jr
  #79  
Old May 15th 04, 12:20 AM
OM
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On Fri, 14 May 2004 13:01:36 -0500, Pat Flannery
wrote:

What's fascinating about the way the Book of Leviticus is written is
that rather than just listing what you can and cannot eat, it tries to
use a form of logic for what's mentioned, and some underlying reason for
why it's unclean. The idea seems to be devise a set of rules that allow
you to determine the cleanliness of a creature that you have never
encountered before, based on its habits and attributes. So say a Great
Fish vomits you out Jonah-style on the shore of Peru, and you are
hungry...and there's a lama standing there..you can have a gander at
it's feet and feeding habits to determine if you should eat it.
Now if you were somehow transported to Tibet, and there was a Llama
standing there, and his feet were not cloven, nor did he chew the
cud....but he had legs above his feet for jumping, like a locust...


....So, when the Israeli Space Program finally makes a landing on the
8th planet of Beta Centauri, I assume Leviticus will be incorporated
into the Flight Operations Manual for EVA procedures? :-)

OM

--

"No ******* ever won a war by dying for | http://www.io.com/~o_m
his country. He won it by making the other | Sergeant-At-Arms
poor dumb ******* die for his country." | Human O-Ring Society

- General George S. Patton, Jr
  #80  
Old May 15th 04, 12:36 AM
Derek Lyons
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OM om@our_blessed_lady_mary_of_the_holy_NASA_researc h_facility.org
wrote:
...Because it *was* acetone and ****. Some Zima marketing goon
apparently found a couple of barrels of it in a warehouse, and decided
that if he diluted it, he could market it.


My sister tells an interesting tale of Zima;

In a weak moment, she bought a bottle to give it a try. Finding it
wanting, she decided that since it was (supposedly) a malt beverage,
she'd put it in saucers in her garden as she did with beer to attract
slugs.

She discovered Budweiser does attract slugs, but that Zima did not.

The conclusion is left as an exercise for the student.

D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.
 




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