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Did you know you can buy land on the moon?



 
 
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  #21  
Old December 1st 03, 02:59 PM
Scott Lowther
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Default Did you know you can buy land on the moon?

Henry Spencer wrote:

In article ,
Brian Thorn wrote:
It's not like slavery was something only the US thought of. They were
just a bit slower to get rid of it than most of the rest of the world.


And when the US began the effort to eliminate slavery, Britain very
nearly came down in support of the side that was trying to continue it.


Indeed so, out of economic interests, assorted grievances with the USA,
and the (erroneous) belief that the social system of the CSA was closer to
that of Europe.


Why "erroneous"? The US worked to be un-European. The CSA worked to
retain its Euopean-ness, aristocracy and all.

--
Scott Lowther, Engineer
Remove the obvious (capitalized) anti-spam
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  #22  
Old December 1st 03, 03:02 PM
Scott Lowther
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Default Did you know you can buy land on the moon?

Henry Spencer wrote:

In article ,
Scott Lowther wrote:
It's not like slavery was something only the US thought of. They were
just a bit slower to get rid of it than most of the rest of the world.


Wow... way to be HORRIBLY wrong there, Henry. Slavery remained a common
enoguh state of things until quite recently, and still goes on in many
places.


Name three countries where it's *legal*.


Sudan, China, North Korea.


Unless, of course, you think that "the rest of the world" really only
means European civilization... and even then you're wrong. I'm no math
wiz, but I'm pretty sure 1865 came *before* 1945...


You're going to have to explain why 1945 was so magic.


Ask ther Israelies. They have good memories of such things.


If you're
including servitude to governments as "slavery", bear in mind that most of
the Allied troops who liberated Europe were conscripts.


Wow, talk about a non-sequitur. Since when have rational people
considered temporary drafts in time of war to be the moral or technical
equivalent to slavery?

--
Scott Lowther, Engineer
Remove the obvious (capitalized) anti-spam
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  #23  
Old December 1st 03, 03:44 PM
Herb Schaltegger
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Default Did you know you can buy land on the moon?

In article ,
Scott Lowther wrote:

Since when have rational people
considered temporary drafts in time of war to be the moral or technical
equivalent to slavery?


Ask the urban poor who rioted en masse to protest conscription during
the American Civil War about that one.

--
Herb Schaltegger, B.S., J.D.
Reformed Aerospace Engineer
Columbia Loss FAQ:
http://www.io.com/~o_m/columbia_loss_faq_x.html
  #25  
Old December 1st 03, 06:43 PM
Henry Spencer
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Default Did you know you can buy land on the moon?

In article ,
Scott Lowther wrote:
and the (erroneous) belief that the social system of the CSA was closer to
that of Europe.


Why "erroneous"? The US worked to be un-European. The CSA worked to
retain its Euopean-ness, aristocracy and all.


There was very little European about the way the CSA worked, if you look
closely; the resemblance was superficial. Both had a strong class
structure, but the two structures weren't at all similar. Notably, in
Europe, the nobility had ties to the peasants as well as vice-versa.

The way Southern aristocrats treated their slaves was much closer to the
way Northern factory owners treated their machinery -- e.g., buying and
selling it whenever convenient -- than to the way European aristocrats
(usually) treated their vassals.
--
MOST launched 30 June; first light, 29 July; 5arcsec | Henry Spencer
pointing, 10 Sept; first science, early Oct; all well. |
  #26  
Old December 1st 03, 08:36 PM
Henry Spencer
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Default Did you know you can buy land on the moon?

In article ,
Andrew Gray wrote:
Of course, there was all the even stranger legislation in the ealry half
of the c19th, when people were banning the trade, but not slavery, or
vice versa.


Or abolishing it in the home country but not in colonies abroad. Most of
that odd-sounding legislation came from abolitionists who lacked the
political clout to meet the problem head-on, but did have enough to nibble
away at its edges, in hopes of curtailing the worst practices, limiting
slavery's growth, and eroding its general political support.

(Nasty though slavery was in general, the trans-Atlantic slave trade was
easily its ugliest part. The home country typically had few slaves and
much anti-slavery activism, while the colonies had extensive slave-based
agriculture and fewer abolitionists. And so forth.)

You're going to have to explain why 1945 was so magic. If you're
including servitude to governments as "slavery", bear in mind that most of
the Allied troops who liberated Europe were conscripts...


I believe he would be referring to the significant amounts of slave
labour used in Germany...


Oh, that was pretty obvious, but it strikes me as a fallacious argument,
since slave labor for the government was common in all nations in that
war, and since. That's not usually deemed to be "slavery", since it lacks
some of the customary features of slavery and is usually dressed up in
patriotic rhetoric. ("Those Japanese-Americans just can't be trusted.")
--
MOST launched 30 June; first light, 29 July; 5arcsec | Henry Spencer
pointing, 10 Sept; first science, early Oct; all well. |
  #29  
Old December 1st 03, 11:07 PM
Stuf4
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Default Did you know you can buy land on the moon?

Brian Thorn wrote:
It's not like slavery was something only the US thought of. They were
just a bit slower to get rid of it than most of the rest of the world.


And when the US began the effort to eliminate slavery, Britain very
nearly came down in support of the side that was trying to continue it.


By the way, the US desire for elimination of slavery can be traced all
the way back to the the very beginning of the country - in the
Declaration of Independence (Jefferson's draft).


~ CT
  #30  
Old December 2nd 03, 03:31 AM
Scott Lowther
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Default Did you know you can buy land on the moon?

Henry Spencer wrote:

In article ,
Scott Lowther wrote:
and the (erroneous) belief that the social system of the CSA was closer to
that of Europe.


Why "erroneous"? The US worked to be un-European. The CSA worked to
retain its Euopean-ness, aristocracy and all.


There was very little European about the way the CSA worked, if you look
closely; the resemblance was superficial.


But still far closer to the Euros than the northern USA.


Both had a strong class
structure, but the two structures weren't at all similar. Notably, in
Europe, the nobility had ties to the peasants as well as vice-versa.


What, like the Czar and the serfs? Yeah, that was WAAAAAAAAY different
from the master and slave relationship in the CSA...

--
Scott Lowther, Engineer
Remove the obvious (capitalized) anti-spam
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