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Sodium detected in Saturn E ring might point to a subsurface ocean onEnceladus..



 
 
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  #1  
Old November 16th 08, 02:28 AM posted to sci.astro,sci.astro.seti,alt.sci.planetary,sci.physics,sci.geo.mineralogy
Robert Clark
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,150
Default Sodium detected in Saturn E ring might point to a subsurface ocean onEnceladus..

I remember reading about the study last year that failed to find
sodium in the Saturn E ring with Earth-bound telescopes, suggesting
Enceladus could not have a subsurface ocean:

Sodium issue clouds Enceladus.
By Molly Bentley
Sunday, 16 December 2007, 17:21 GMT
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7145530.stm

But I don't remember seeing this study this year using the Cosmic Dust
Analyzer on Cassini that did detect sodium in the E ring:

Saturn's moon may host an ocean.
By Ron Cowen
August 30th, 2008; Vol.174 #5
Enceladus' geysers could have delivered sodium from its underground
ocean and into Saturn's E ring.
"The Cassini spacecraft has found what may be the strongest evidence
yet that Saturn’s tiny moon Enceladus has an ocean beneath its icy
surface. If the liquid water finding is confirmed, it would suggest
that the moon may be one of the most promising places in the solar
system to search for signs of past or present extraterrestrial life."
....
"Cassini researcher Roger Yelle of the University of Arizona has a
different view. "The surface of Enceladus is not pure water ice. We
just don't have a good idea of what the other components are," he
notes. "There could be a small amount of sodium in the minerals in the
surface layer." The sodium detected in the E ring could have come from
that material on the moon's surface, rather than from its interior. "I
don’t believe that you can say that the detection of sodium [in the E
ring] implies that it came from a sub-surface ocean" on Enceladus,
Yelle says. "So, let’s not run around crazy-like claiming the likely
detection of life because sodium was found in dust particles in the
Saturn system.”
"Another complicating factor is that studies from Earth, using large
telescopes such as the Keck Observatory atop Hawaii’s Mauna Kea, have
not found any sign of sodium in the E ring. Nick Schneider of the
University of Colorado at Boulder reported the lack of sodium last
December in San Francisco during a meeting of the American Geophysical
Union.
"But such studies, notes Kempf, can only detect sodium in its gaseous
form, not the solid sodium in the frozen ice particles. He maintains
that the bulk of the sodium in the E ring lies in the solid phase
recorded by Cassini’s cosmic dust analyzer."
http://sciencenews.org/view/generic/..._host_an_ocean

The Cassini sodium readings will also be presented at the upcoming
December AGU meeting:

Sodium Salts in Ice Grains from Enceladus' Plumes: Evidence for an
Ocean below the Moon's Surface.
http://www.agu.org/cgi-bin/SFgate/SF...m08%2ffm08.txt


Bob Clark
  #2  
Old November 16th 08, 07:53 PM posted to sci.astro,sci.astro.seti,alt.sci.planetary,sci.physics,sci.geo.mineralogy
BradGuth
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 21,544
Default Sodium detected in Saturn E ring might point to a subsurfaceocean on Enceladus..

On Nov 15, 5:28 pm, Robert Clark wrote:
I remember reading about the study last year that failed to find
sodium in the Saturn E ring with Earth-bound telescopes, suggesting
Enceladus could not have a subsurface ocean:

Sodium issue clouds Enceladus.
By Molly Bentley
Sunday, 16 December 2007, 17:21 GMThttp://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7145530.stm

But I don't remember seeing this study this year using the Cosmic Dust
Analyzer on Cassini that did detect sodium in the E ring:

Saturn's moon may host an ocean.
By Ron Cowen
August 30th, 2008; Vol.174 #5
Enceladus' geysers could have delivered sodium from its underground
ocean and into Saturn's E ring.
"The Cassini spacecraft has found what may be the strongest evidence
yet that Saturn’s tiny moon Enceladus has an ocean beneath its icy
surface. If the liquid water finding is confirmed, it would suggest
that the moon may be one of the most promising places in the solar
system to search for signs of past or present extraterrestrial life."
...
"Cassini researcher Roger Yelle of the University of Arizona has a
different view. "The surface of Enceladus is not pure water ice. We
just don't have a good idea of what the other components are," he
notes. "There could be a small amount of sodium in the minerals in the
surface layer." The sodium detected in the E ring could have come from
that material on the moon's surface, rather than from its interior. "I
don’t believe that you can say that the detection of sodium [in the E
ring] implies that it came from a sub-surface ocean" on Enceladus,
Yelle says. "So, let’s not run around crazy-like claiming the likely
detection of life because sodium was found in dust particles in the
Saturn system.”
"Another complicating factor is that studies from Earth, using large
telescopes such as the Keck Observatory atop Hawaii’s Mauna Kea, have
not found any sign of sodium in the E ring. Nick Schneider of the
University of Colorado at Boulder reported the lack of sodium last
December in San Francisco during a meeting of the American Geophysical
Union.
"But such studies, notes Kempf, can only detect sodium in its gaseous
form, not the solid sodium in the frozen ice particles. He maintains
that the bulk of the sodium in the E ring lies in the solid phase
recorded by Cassini’s cosmic dust analyzer."http://sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/34109/title/Saturns_moon_may_h...

The Cassini sodium readings will also be presented at the upcoming
December AGU meeting:

Sodium Salts in Ice Grains from Enceladus' Plumes: Evidence for an
Ocean below the Moon's Surface.http://www.agu.org/cgi-bin/SFgate/SF...sh&verbose=0&l...

Bob Clark


Our Selene/moon is surrounded by a 9r surrounding cloud of sodium,
plus having a million km comet like tail of sodium that starts off at
9r (31,000 km diameter) by 1e6 km before fading away. Now that's a
lot of sodium.

~ Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth BG / “Guth Usenet”
  #3  
Old November 16th 08, 10:57 PM posted to sci.astro,sci.astro.seti,alt.sci.planetary,sci.geo.mineralogy
Uncle Al
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 697
Default Sodium detected in Saturn E ring might point to a subsurface oceanon Enceladus..

Robert Clark wrote:

I remember reading about the study last year that failed to find
sodium in the Saturn E ring with Earth-bound telescopes, suggesting
Enceladus could not have a subsurface ocean:

[snip]

Hey stooopid - when they find pepper, then what? Do we send a Hal
9000 when Tabasco Sauce is detected?

--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/lajos.htm#a2
  #4  
Old November 17th 08, 01:58 AM posted to sci.astro,sci.astro.seti,alt.sci.planetary,sci.physics,sci.geo.mineralogy
BradGuth
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 21,544
Default Sodium detected in Saturn E ring might point to a subsurfaceocean on Enceladus..

On Nov 15, 5:28 pm, Robert Clark wrote:
I remember reading about the study last year that failed to find
sodium in the Saturn E ring with Earth-bound telescopes, suggesting
Enceladus could not have a subsurface ocean:

Sodium issue clouds Enceladus.
By Molly Bentley
Sunday, 16 December 2007, 17:21 GMThttp://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7145530.stm

But I don't remember seeing this study this year using the Cosmic Dust
Analyzer on Cassini that did detect sodium in the E ring:

Saturn's moon may host an ocean.
By Ron Cowen
August 30th, 2008; Vol.174 #5
Enceladus' geysers could have delivered sodium from its underground
ocean and into Saturn's E ring.
"The Cassini spacecraft has found what may be the strongest evidence
yet that Saturn’s tiny moon Enceladus has an ocean beneath its icy
surface. If the liquid water finding is confirmed, it would suggest
that the moon may be one of the most promising places in the solar
system to search for signs of past or present extraterrestrial life."
...
"Cassini researcher Roger Yelle of the University of Arizona has a
different view. "The surface of Enceladus is not pure water ice. We
just don't have a good idea of what the other components are," he
notes. "There could be a small amount of sodium in the minerals in the
surface layer." The sodium detected in the E ring could have come from
that material on the moon's surface, rather than from its interior. "I
don’t believe that you can say that the detection of sodium [in the E
ring] implies that it came from a sub-surface ocean" on Enceladus,
Yelle says. "So, let’s not run around crazy-like claiming the likely
detection of life because sodium was found in dust particles in the
Saturn system.”
"Another complicating factor is that studies from Earth, using large
telescopes such as the Keck Observatory atop Hawaii’s Mauna Kea, have
not found any sign of sodium in the E ring. Nick Schneider of the
University of Colorado at Boulder reported the lack of sodium last
December in San Francisco during a meeting of the American Geophysical
Union.
"But such studies, notes Kempf, can only detect sodium in its gaseous
form, not the solid sodium in the frozen ice particles. He maintains
that the bulk of the sodium in the E ring lies in the solid phase
recorded by Cassini’s cosmic dust analyzer."http://sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/34109/title/Saturns_moon_may_h...

The Cassini sodium readings will also be presented at the upcoming
December AGU meeting:

Sodium Salts in Ice Grains from Enceladus' Plumes: Evidence for an
Ocean below the Moon's Surface.http://www.agu.org/cgi-bin/SFgate/SF...sh&verbose=0&l...

Bob Clark


Our Selene/moon is literally surrounded by a 9r atmospheric cloud of
sodium, plus having a solar wind blown million km comet like tail of
sodium that starts off at 9r (31,000 km diameter) and goes off for 1e6
km before fading away. Now, even at the volumetric average population
or saturation of a mere 50 sodium atoms/cm3, that's what I'd call a
lot of moon spawn sodium.

Of the sodium comet like tail alone:
1.9e29 cm3 * 50 = 9.5e30 sodium atoms. (add to that the average of
perhaps at least 100 atoms/cm3 that’s measurably quantified as
surrounding Selene)

The typically silly mainstream and thereby brown-nosed minions and
public damage-control clowns within Usenet/newsgroups, like our Uncle
Al, are of course here to stay, that is as long as their republican
infowar Mafia keeps sending those bonus payments each and every month
to their offshore bank account. As otherwise, who in their right mind
would knowingly hire a Zionist/Nazi?

~ Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth BG / “Guth Usenet”

 




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