Future Space War

"Dirk Bruere at Neopax" wrote in message
...
Andrew Swallow wrote:


Since communication satellites have not been attacked
by the military, terrorists or blackmailers neither they
nor their insurance companies think it is worthwhile.

Yet.

I have just remembered there is an example of military
jamming of satellite communications. John Simpson
of the BBC reported that his satellite phone from Baghdad
to London stopped working during air raids. This was in
1991 during the first Gulf War. The BBC will have recordings
and he may have mentioned it in one of his books.

Andrew Swallow

"Andrew Swallow" wrote:


"Dirk Bruere at Neopax" wrote in message
...
Andrew Swallow wrote:
Since communication satellites have not been attacked
by the military, terrorists or blackmailers neither they
nor their insurance companies think it is worthwhile.

Yet.

I have just remembered there is an example of military
jamming of satellite communications. John Simpson
of the BBC reported that his satellite phone from Baghdad
to London stopped working during air raids. This was in
1991 during the first Gulf War. The BBC will have recordings
and he may have mentioned it in one of his books.

Sorry, but a phone ceasing to work is not prima facie evidence of
jamming. The phone can be cut off in a variety of ways *without*
military interference.

D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.

"Derek Lyons" wrote in message
...
"Andrew Swallow" wrote:


"Dirk Bruere at Neopax" wrote in message
...
Andrew Swallow wrote:
Since communication satellites have not been attacked
by the military, terrorists or blackmailers neither they
nor their insurance companies think it is worthwhile.

Yet.

I have just remembered there is an example of military
jamming of satellite communications. John Simpson
of the BBC reported that his satellite phone from Baghdad
to London stopped working during air raids. This was in
1991 during the first Gulf War. The BBC will have recordings
and he may have mentioned it in one of his books.

Sorry, but a phone ceasing to work is not prima facie evidence of
jamming. The phone can be cut off in a variety of ways *without*
military interference.

Since John Simpson was sat on the top of a
building at the time next to the equipment's aerial,
it transmits straight to the satellite, it does not
use the civilian phone network, the lights show the
power was on, it repeatedly stopped working during air
raids and started working when the aircraft leave
there are not many alternatives to jamming that
fit the facts.

Andrew Swallow

Andrew Swallow wrote:

"Derek Lyons" wrote in message
...

"Andrew Swallow" wrote:


"Dirk Bruere at Neopax" wrote in message
...

Andrew Swallow wrote:

Since communication satellites have not been attacked
by the military, terrorists or blackmailers neither they
nor their insurance companies think it is worthwhile.

Yet.


I have just remembered there is an example of military
jamming of satellite communications. John Simpson
of the BBC reported that his satellite phone from Baghdad
to London stopped working during air raids. This was in
1991 during the first Gulf War. The BBC will have recordings
and he may have mentioned it in one of his books.

Sorry, but a phone ceasing to work is not prima facie evidence of
jamming. The phone can be cut off in a variety of ways *without*
military interference.


Since John Simpson was sat on the top of a
building at the time next to the equipment's aerial,
it transmits straight to the satellite, it does not
use the civilian phone network, the lights show the
power was on, it repeatedly stopped working during air
raids and started working when the aircraft leave
there are not many alternatives to jamming that
fit the facts.

But that does not tell us which ends was being jammed.
It could be that Baghdad was being saturated by EW signals, some of which
'leaked' into Simpsons equipment.

--
Dirk

The Consensus:-
The political party for the new millenium
http://www.theconsensus.org

"Dirk Bruere at Neopax" wrote in message
...


Andrew Swallow wrote:

"Derek Lyons" wrote in message
...

"Andrew Swallow" wrote:


"Dirk Bruere at Neopax" wrote in message
...

Andrew Swallow wrote:

Since communication satellites have not been attacked
by the military, terrorists or blackmailers neither they
nor their insurance companies think it is worthwhile.

Yet.


I have just remembered there is an example of military
jamming of satellite communications. John Simpson
of the BBC reported that his satellite phone from Baghdad
to London stopped working during air raids. This was in
1991 during the first Gulf War. The BBC will have recordings
and he may have mentioned it in one of his books.

Sorry, but a phone ceasing to work is not prima facie evidence of
jamming. The phone can be cut off in a variety of ways *without*
military interference.


Since John Simpson was sat on the top of a
building at the time next to the equipment's aerial,
it transmits straight to the satellite, it does not
use the civilian phone network, the lights show the
power was on, it repeatedly stopped working during air
raids and started working when the aircraft leave
there are not many alternatives to jamming that
fit the facts.

But that does not tell us which ends was being jammed.
It could be that Baghdad was being saturated by EW signals, some of which
'leaked' into Simpsons equipment.

It does not matter if the satellite was jammed or the
ground station was jammed. The satellite link had
been successfully rendered unusable.

For the new satellites the people trying to use the
link will start complaining and refusing to pay. The
electronic warfare equipment to jam or spoof the
satellite itself probably exists, its just classified.

Here is a more modern example.
The Cubans jamming US satellite broadcasts to Iran.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3077303.stm

Andrew Swallow

"Andrew Swallow" wrote:
Since John Simpson was sat on the top of a
building at the time next to the equipment's aerial,
it transmits straight to the satellite, it does not
use the civilian phone network, the lights show the
power was on, it repeatedly stopped working during air
raids and started working when the aircraft leave
there are not many alternatives to jamming that
fit the facts.

Actually, there is: That the 'jamming' was an unintentional side
effect of EW/ECM deployed for other purposes.

It does not matter if the satellite was jammed or the
ground station was jammed. The satellite link had
been successfully rendered unusable.

However, there is no evidence of intent behind the jamming, leaving
unanswered the question as to 'intentional or accidental'. Also,
there is no apparent advantage to intentional jamming during a raid,
which lessens the likelihood that it was intentional. Given that the
phone communicated with other equipment, which then communicated with
the satellite, there are two legs vulnerable to interference.

You, and Mr Simpson, have replaced fact with assumption.

Here is a more modern example.
The Cubans jamming US satellite broadcasts to Iran.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3077303.stm

Sorry, but again you substitute assumption for fact. 'Thought to be
jamming' is not 'jamming'. No evidence was given that the signal was
actually being interfered with.

D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.

In sci.space.tech Derek Lyons wrote:
snip question about satellite phones stopping working during ODS
However, there is no evidence of intent behind the jamming, leaving
unanswered the question as to 'intentional or accidental'. Also,
there is no apparent advantage to intentional jamming during a raid,
which lessens the likelihood that it was intentional. Given that the
phone communicated with other equipment, which then communicated with
the satellite, there are two legs vulnerable to interference.

It's not beyond the bounds of possibility that iridium would provide
an improvised C&C system.

Ian Stirling wrote:
In sci.space.tech Derek Lyons wrote:

snip question about satellite phones stopping working during ODS

However, there is no evidence of intent behind the jamming, leaving
unanswered the question as to 'intentional or accidental'. Also,
there is no apparent advantage to intentional jamming during a raid,
which lessens the likelihood that it was intentional. Given that the
phone communicated with other equipment, which then communicated with
the satellite, there are two legs vulnerable to interference.

It's not beyond the bounds of possibility that iridium would provide
an improvised C&C system.

That's certainly true. But it's still a long leap from the facts (the
phone stopped working during a raid) to the conclusion reached by the
original poster (the military deliberately jammed the phone). Given
that the air raids went in behind an ECM/EW 'wall', it's impossible to
discern whether the jamming was intended, or a side effect.

D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.

In sci.space.tech Derek Lyons wrote:
Ian Stirling wrote:
In sci.space.tech Derek Lyons wrote:

snip question about satellite phones stopping working during ODS

However, there is no evidence of intent behind the jamming, leaving
unanswered the question as to 'intentional or accidental'. Also,
there is no apparent advantage to intentional jamming during a raid,
which lessens the likelihood that it was intentional. Given that the
phone communicated with other equipment, which then communicated with
the satellite, there are two legs vulnerable to interference.

It's not beyond the bounds of possibility that iridium would provide
an improvised C&C system.

That's certainly true. But it's still a long leap from the facts (the
phone stopped working during a raid) to the conclusion reached by the
original poster (the military deliberately jammed the phone). Given
that the air raids went in behind an ECM/EW 'wall', it's impossible to
discern whether the jamming was intended, or a side effect.

There is of course the third possibility, that someone phoned iridium,
and asked them to turn of Iraq at 3AM Friday for 4 hours.

"Derek Lyons" wrote in message
...
Ian Stirling wrote:
In sci.space.tech Derek Lyons wrote:

snip question about satellite phones stopping working during ODS

However, there is no evidence of intent behind the jamming, leaving
unanswered the question as to 'intentional or accidental'. Also,
there is no apparent advantage to intentional jamming during a raid,
which lessens the likelihood that it was intentional. Given that the
phone communicated with other equipment, which then communicated with
the satellite, there are two legs vulnerable to interference.

It's not beyond the bounds of possibility that iridium would provide
an improvised C&C system.

That's certainly true. But it's still a long leap from the facts (the
phone stopped working during a raid) to the conclusion reached by the
original poster (the military deliberately jammed the phone). Given
that the air raids went in behind an ECM/EW 'wall', it's impossible to
discern whether the jamming was intended, or a side effect.

Irrelevant.

If the ECM/EW was targeted or just hit every frequency. The
satellite channel was still jammed.

Andrew Swallow