HIGH REDSHIFT QUASAR IN A LOW REDSHIFT GALAXY

http://starburstfound.org/sqkblog/?p=138
"In 2005 a quasar with redshift z = 2.11 was discovered near the core
of active galaxy NGC 7319 which is a low redshift galaxy (z = 0.0225)
in Stephen's Quintet that is located about 360 million light years
away. As noted in a UC San Diego news release, this presents a
problem for standard theory which customarily places a quasar with
such a large redshift at a distance of about 10 billion light years,
or 30 times further away. The finding that the NGC 7319 quasar is
actually a member of a low redshift galaxy, indicates that the
quasar's redshift is neither due to cosmological expansion nor to
tired-light redshifting, but to some other cause."

http://www.relativitybook.com/resour...n_gravity.html
Albert Einstein 1911: "If we call the velocity of light at the origin
of co-ordinates c0, then the velocity of light c at a place with the
gravitation potential phi will be given by the relation c=c0(1+phi/
c^2)."

http://www.d1heidorn.homepage.t-onli...k/VSL/VSL.html
"In two works from 1907 and 1911 Einstein introduces a variable speed
of light. Sometimes this is taken as a contradiction to the constancy
of the speed of light, which was postulated in the foundation of
Special Relativity in 1905. However there is no contradiction at all -
even if in the fully developed GR from 1916 there is a variable speed
of light."

http://www.speed-light.info/speed_of_light_variable.htm
"Einstein wrote this paper in 1911 in German. It predated the full
formal development of general relativity by about four years. You can
find an English translation of this paper in the Dover book 'The
Principle of Relativity' beginning on page 99; you will find in
section 3 of that paper Einstein's derivation of the variable speed of
light in a gravitational potential, eqn (3). The result is:
c'=c0(1+phi/c^2) where phi is the gravitational potential relative to
the point where the speed of light co is measured......You can find a
more sophisticated derivation later by Einstein (1955) from the full
theory of general relativity in the weak field approximation....For
the 1955 results but not in coordinates see page 93, eqn (6.28):
c(r)=[1+2phi(r)/c^2]c. Namely the 1955 approximation shows a variation
in km/sec twice as much as first predicted in 1911."

Crimestop question: A massive celestial object (e.g. a quasar) emits
light with initial speed c (relative to the emitter) which eventually
leaves the gravitational field. Then, all along, the light will travel
through space where the gravitational potential is constant but
different from the potential at the point of emission. Do both
Newton's emission theory of light and Einstein's general relativity
predict that the light will travel through field-free space with speed
c' constant but different from (lower than) the initial speed c?

http://www.liferesearchuniversal.com...html#seventeen
George Orwell: "Crimestop means the faculty of stopping short, as
though by instinct, at the threshold of any dangerous thought. It
includes the power of not grasping analogies, of failing to perceive
logical errors, of misunderstanding the simplest arguments if they are
inimical to Ingsoc, and of being bored or repelled by any train of
thought which is capable of leading in a heretical direction.
Crimestop, in short, means protective stupidity."

Pentcho Valev

Banesh Hoffmann explains Halton Arp's "intrinsic" redshift:

http://www.amazon.com/Relativity-Its.../dp/0486406768
Banesh Hoffmann: "In an accelerated sky laboratory, and therefore also
in the corresponding earth laboratory, the frequence of arrival of
light pulses is lower than the ticking rate of the upper clocks EVEN
THOUGH ALL THE CLOCKS GO AT THE SAME RATE. (...) As a result the
experimenter at the ceiling of the sky laboratory will see with his
own eyes that the floor clock is going at a slower rate than the
ceiling clock - EVEN THOUGH, AS I HAVE STRESSED, BOTH ARE GOING AT THE
SAME RATE. (...) THE GRAVITATIONAL RED SHIFT DOES NOT ARISE FROM
CHANGES IN THE INTRINSIC RATES OF CLOCKS. It arises from WHAT BEFALLS
LIGHT SIGNALS AS THEY TRAVERSE SPACE AND TIME IN THE PRESENCE OF
GRAVITATION."

The problem is that "WHAT BEFALLS LIGHT SIGNALS AS THEY TRAVERSE SPACE
AND TIME IN THE PRESENCE OF GRAVITATION", although explained by both
Newton's emission theory of light and Einstein's general relativity
(both say the speed of light varies with the gravitational potential)
is subject to crimestop in Einsteiniana's schizophrenic world:

http://www.liferesearchuniversal.com...html#seventeen
George Orwell: "Crimestop means the faculty of stopping short, as
though by instinct, at the threshold of any dangerous thought. It
includes the power of not grasping analogies, of failing to perceive
logical errors, of misunderstanding the simplest arguments if they are
inimical to Ingsoc, and of being bored or repelled by any train of
thought which is capable of leading in a heretical direction.
Crimestop, in short, means protective stupidity."

Pentcho Valev

the Einsteinmania version always assumes that gravity
is the sole red shifter, other than presumed velocity
away from us. also,
how does one know that the high-shifted thing is
actually "in" the low-shifted one ... beyond
the well-known correlations of Arp et al?

don't respond to the bot, PV, directly;
he never replies to any thing.

Carbon buckyballs are not exactly transparent.

http://www.bartleby.com/173/a3.html
Albert Einstein: "Thus a displacement towards the red ought to take
place for spectral lines produced at the surface of stars as compared
with the spectral lines of the same element produced at the surface of
the earth..."

Einstein's text implies that extremely massive celestial objects (e.g.
some quasars) produce highly redshifted light regardless of the
distance to the observer. Why dissident cosmologists speak of
"unexplained intrinsic redshift mechanisms" and why mainstreamers
don't accept even this "soft" formulation is a grand secret in
Einsteiniana's schizophrenic world.

Pentcho Valev

http://admin.wadsworth.com/resource_...Ch01-Essay.pdf
Clifford Will: "The first glimmerings of the black hole idea date to
the 18th century, in the writings of a British amateur astronomer, the
Reverend John Michell. Reasoning on the basis of the corpuscular
theory that light would be attracted by gravity, he noted that the
speed of light emitted from the surface of a massive body would be
reduced [that is, light would be redshifted] by the time the light was
very far from the source. (Michell of course did not know special
relativity.)"

http://msp.warwick.ac.uk/~cpr/paradi...e-dilation.pdf
Intrinsic redshift in quasars
COLIN ROURKE
"A recent paper by MRS Hawkins "On time dilation in quasar light
curves" conclusively proves that quasars have instrinsic redshift.
(...) ...redshift and time dilation are effectively identical in
general relativity. (...) ...it follows that if a radiation source
exhibits redshift then it also exhibits the correctly correlated time
dilation. It is important to stress that this fact is an elementary
consequence of the spacetime geometry underlying General Relativity
and has no dependence whatsoever on cosmological assumptions. It is
equally true in an expanding universe and in a static or contracting
or chaotic universe and it is true whatever the cause of the redshift
whether Doppler or gravitational or due to changes in the geometry of
spacetime or any other relativistic effect. It is also true in any
conceivable variant of general relativity. Any theory based on
spacetime with well defined light paths will have this property."

Clearly both Newton's emission theory of light and Einstein's general
relativity predict that extremely massive celestial objects exhibit
substantial INTRINSIC redshift. Halton Arp is right and mainstream
cosmologists should be very ashamed.

Pentcho Valev

http://www.mathpages.com/rr/s6-01/6-01.htm
"Around 1911 Einstein proposed to incorporate gravitation into a
modified version of special relativity by allowing the speed of light
to vary as a scalar from place to place in Euclidean space as a
function of the gravitational potential. This "scalar c field" is
remarkably similar to a simple refractive medium, in which the speed
of light varies as a function of the density. Fermat's principle of
least time can then be applied to define the paths of light rays as
geodesics in the spacetime manifold (as discussed in Section 8.4).
Specifically, Einstein wrote in 1911 that the speed of light at a
place with the gravitational potential phi would be c(1+phi/c^2),
where c is the nominal speed of light in the absence of gravity. In
geometrical units we define c=1, so Einstein's 1911 formula can be
written simply as c'=1+phi."

Einstein plagiarized his 1911 formula from Newtonians, and his 1915
(final) formula did not differ considerably: c'=1+2phi. According to
both Newton's emission theory of light and Einstein's relativity, the
intrinsic redshift produced by any celestial body is given by the
formula:

f' = f(1+phi/c^2)

where f is the initial frequency, f' is the frequency in the field-
free space (where the gravitational potential becomes maximal) and phi
is the gravitational potential difference between the point of
emission and the field-free space (0 phi). The decreased frequency
is obviously due to the decreased speed of light.

Then, if light is to travel long distance before it reaches the
observer, its speed will decrease additionally by the "tired light"
mechanism.

Pentcho Valev wrote:

http://starburstfound.org/sqkblog/?p=138
"In 2005 a quasar with redshift z = 2.11 was discovered near the core
of active galaxy NGC 7319 which is a low redshift galaxy (z = 0.0225)
in Stephen's Quintet that is located about 360 million light years
away. As noted in a UC San Diego news release, this presents a problem
for standard theory which customarily places a quasar with such a
large redshift at a distance of about 10 billion light years, or 30
times further away. The finding that the NGC 7319 quasar is actually a
member of a low redshift galaxy, indicates that the quasar's redshift
is neither due to cosmological expansion nor to tired-light
redshifting, but to some other cause."

http://www.relativitybook.com/resour...n_gravity.html
Albert Einstein 1911: "If we call the velocity of light at the origin
of co-ordinates c0, then the velocity of light c at a place with the
gravitation potential phi will be given by the relation c=c0(1+phi/
c^2)."

http://www.d1heidorn.homepage.t-onli...k/VSL/VSL.html
"In two works from 1907 and 1911 Einstein introduces a variable speed
of light. Sometimes this is taken as a contradiction to the constancy
of the speed of light, which was postulated in the foundation of
Special Relativity in 1905. However there is no contradiction at all -
even if in the fully developed GR from 1916 there is a variable speed
of light."

http://www.speed-light.info/speed_of_light_variable.htm
"Einstein wrote this paper in 1911 in German. It predated the full
formal development of general relativity by about four years. You can
find an English translation of this paper in the Dover book 'The
Principle of Relativity' beginning on page 99; you will find in
section 3 of that paper Einstein's derivation of the variable speed of
light in a gravitational potential, eqn (3). The result is:
c'=c0(1+phi/c^2) where phi is the gravitational potential relative to
the point where the speed of light co is measured......You can find a
more sophisticated derivation later by Einstein (1955) from the full
theory of general relativity in the weak field approximation....For
the 1955 results but not in coordinates see page 93, eqn (6.28):
c(r)=[1+2phi(r)/c^2]c. Namely the 1955 approximation shows a variation
in km/sec twice as much as first predicted in 1911."

Crimestop question: A massive celestial object (e.g. a quasar) emits
light with initial speed c (relative to the emitter) which eventually
leaves the gravitational field. Then, all along, the light will travel
through space where the gravitational potential is constant but
different from the potential at the point of emission. Do both
Newton's emission theory of light and Einstein's general relativity
predict that the light will travel through field-free space with speed
c' constant but different from (lower than) the initial speed c?

http://www.liferesearchuniversal.com...html#seventeen
George Orwell: "Crimestop means the faculty of stopping short, as
though by instinct, at the threshold of any dangerous thought. It
includes the power of not grasping analogies, of failing to perceive
logical errors, of misunderstanding the simplest arguments if they are
inimical to Ingsoc, and of being bored or repelled by any train of
thought which is capable of leading in a heretical direction.
Crimestop, in short, means protective stupidity."

Pentcho Valev

On Aug 3, 11:13*am, "Momo, Swami, MK"
wrote:
the Einsteinmania version always assumes that gravity
is the sole red shifter, other than presumed velocity
away from us. *also,
how does one know that the high-shifted thing is
actually "in" the low-shifted one ... beyond
the well-known correlations of Arp et al?

don't respond to the bot, PV, directly;
he never replies to any thing.


Carbon buckyballs are not exactly transparent.

On any given photon trajectory towards us, and/or towards any given
pixel detector (assuming photons actually travel), how many carbon
buckyballs are directly within that path?

http://translate.google.com/#
Brad Guth, Brad_Guth, Brad.Guth, BradGuth, BG / “Guth Usenet”

On Aug 7, 5:13*am, Pentcho Valev wrote:
http://admin.wadsworth.com/resource_...urces/05344933...
Clifford Will: "The first glimmerings of the black hole idea date to
the 18th century, in the writings of a British amateur astronomer, the
Reverend John Michell. Reasoning on the basis of the corpuscular
theory that light would be attracted by gravity, he noted that the
speed of light emitted from the surface of a massive body would be
reduced [that is, light would be redshifted] by the time the light was
very far from the source. (Michell of course did not know special
relativity.)"

http://msp.warwick.ac.uk/~cpr/paradi...e-dilation.pdf
Intrinsic redshift in quasars
COLIN ROURKE
"A recent paper by MRS Hawkins "On time dilation in quasar light
curves" conclusively proves that quasars have instrinsic redshift.
(...) ...redshift and time dilation are effectively identical in
general relativity. (...) ...it follows that if a radiation source
exhibits redshift then it also exhibits the correctly correlated time
dilation. It is important to stress that this fact is an elementary
consequence of the spacetime geometry underlying General Relativity
and has no dependence whatsoever on cosmological assumptions. It is
equally true in an expanding universe and in a static or contracting
or chaotic universe and it is true whatever the cause of the redshift
whether Doppler or gravitational or due to changes in the geometry of
spacetime or any other relativistic effect. It is also true in any
conceivable variant of general relativity. Any theory based on
spacetime with well defined light paths will have this property."

Clearly both Newton's emission theory of light and Einstein's general
relativity predict that extremely massive celestial objects exhibit
substantial INTRINSIC redshift. Halton Arp is right and mainstream
cosmologists should be very ashamed.

Pentcho Valev

Since when does our mainstream status-quo ever admit error? (at least
not for generations after the fact)

http://translate.google.com/#
Brad Guth, Brad_Guth, Brad.Guth, BradGuth, BG / “Guth Usenet”

On Aug 21, 11:32*am, Pentcho Valev wrote:
http://www.mathpages.com/rr/s6-01/6-01.htm
"Around 1911 Einstein proposed to incorporate gravitation into a
modified version of special relativity by allowing the speed of light
to vary as a scalar from place to place in Euclidean space as a
function of the gravitational potential. This "scalar c field" is
remarkably similar to a simple refractive medium, in which the speed
of light varies as a function of the density. Fermat's principle of
least time can then be applied to define the paths of light rays as
geodesics in the spacetime manifold (as discussed in Section 8.4).
Specifically, Einstein wrote in 1911 that the speed of light at a
place with the gravitational potential phi would be c(1+phi/c^2),
where c is the nominal speed of light in the absence of gravity. In
geometrical units we define c=1, so Einstein's 1911 formula can be
written simply as c'=1+phi."

Einstein plagiarized his 1911 formula from Newtonians, and his 1915
(final) formula did not differ considerably: c'=1+2phi. According to
both Newton's emission theory of light and Einstein's relativity, the
intrinsic redshift produced by any celestial body is given by the
formula:

f' = f(1+phi/c^2)

where f is the initial frequency, f' is the frequency in the field-
free space (where the gravitational potential becomes maximal) and phi
is the gravitational potential difference between the point of
emission and the field-free space (0 phi). The decreased frequency
is obviously due to the decreased speed of light.

Then, if light is to travel long distance before it reaches the
observer, its speed will decrease additionally by the "tired light"
mechanism.

Pentcho Valev wrote:

http://starburstfound.org/sqkblog/?p=138
"In 2005 a quasar with redshift z = 2.11 was discovered near the core
of active galaxy NGC 7319 which is a low redshift galaxy (z = 0.0225)
in Stephen's Quintet that is located about 360 million light years
away. As noted in a UC San Diego news release, this presents a problem
for standard theory which customarily places a quasar with such a
large redshift at a distance of about 10 billion light years, or 30
times further away. The finding that the NGC 7319 quasar is actually a
member of a low redshift galaxy, indicates that the quasar's redshift
is neither due to cosmological expansion nor to tired-light
redshifting, but to some other cause."

http://www.relativitybook.com/resour...n_gravity.html
Albert Einstein 1911: "If we call the velocity of light at the origin
of co-ordinates c0, then the velocity of light c at a place with the
gravitation potential phi will be given by the relation c=c0(1+phi/
c^2)."

http://www.d1heidorn.homepage.t-onli...k/VSL/VSL.html
"In two works from 1907 and 1911 Einstein introduces a variable speed
of light. Sometimes this is taken as a contradiction to the constancy
of the speed of light, which was postulated in the foundation of
Special Relativity in 1905. However there is no contradiction at all -
even if in the fully developed GR from 1916 there is a variable speed
of light."

http://www.speed-light.info/speed_of_light_variable.htm
"Einstein wrote this paper in 1911 in German. It predated the full
formal development of general relativity by about four years. You can
find an English translation of this paper in the Dover book 'The
Principle of Relativity' beginning on page 99; you will find in
section 3 of that paper Einstein's derivation of the variable speed of
light in a gravitational potential, eqn (3). The result is:
c'=c0(1+phi/c^2) where phi is the gravitational potential relative to
the point where the speed of light co is measured......You can find a
more sophisticated derivation later by Einstein (1955) from the full
theory of general relativity in the weak field approximation....For
the 1955 results but not in coordinates see page 93, eqn (6.28):
c(r)=[1+2phi(r)/c^2]c. Namely the 1955 approximation shows a variation
in km/sec twice as much as first predicted in 1911."

Crimestop question: A massive celestial object (e.g. a quasar) emits
light with initial speed c (relative to the emitter) which eventually
leaves the gravitational field. Then, all along, the light will travel
through space where the gravitational potential is constant but
different from the potential at the point of emission. Do both
Newton's emission theory of light and Einstein's general relativity
predict that the light will travel through field-free space with speed
c' constant but different from (lower than) the initial speed c?

http://www.liferesearchuniversal.com...html#seventeen
George Orwell: "Crimestop means the faculty of stopping short, as
though by instinct, at the threshold of any dangerous thought. It
includes the power of not grasping analogies, of failing to perceive
logical errors, of misunderstanding the simplest arguments if they are
inimical to Ingsoc, and of being bored or repelled by any train of
thought which is capable of leading in a heretical direction.
Crimestop, in short, means protective stupidity."

Pentcho Valev


"A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents
and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents
eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with
it." / Max Planck

http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/gr-qc/pdf/0211/0211021v2.pdf
Julian Barbour: "The greatest need is for an explanation of the Hubble
red shift that does not rely on expansion of the universe. (...) The
estimates of section 7 show how readily the scale-invariant potential
energy can increase if the universe becomes more clumpy. Scale-
invariant gravity must, in the first place, yield a cause of the
Hubble red shift. The only plausible candidate that I can see is this
change in the 'potential' of the universe induced by such clumping. It
is suitably great and, according to the standard model, has been
happening since the end of inflation. Therefore, the conjecture has to
be that somehow the change in potential causes the Hubble red shift.
This is not inherently impossible. We know that differences in the
gravitational potential give rise to a gravitational red shift."

Pentcho Valev wrote:

http://www.mathpages.com/rr/s6-01/6-01.htm
"Around 1911 Einstein proposed to incorporate gravitation into a
modified version of special relativity by allowing the speed of light
to vary as a scalar from place to place in Euclidean space as a
function of the gravitational potential. This "scalar c field" is
remarkably similar to a simple refractive medium, in which the speed
of light varies as a function of the density. Fermat's principle of
least time can then be applied to define the paths of light rays as
geodesics in the spacetime manifold (as discussed in Section 8.4).
Specifically, Einstein wrote in 1911 that the speed of light at a
place with the gravitational potential phi would be c(1+phi/c^2),
where c is the nominal speed of light in the absence of gravity. In
geometrical units we define c=1, so Einstein's 1911 formula can be
written simply as c'=1+phi."

Einstein plagiarized his 1911 formula from Newtonians, and his 1915
(final) formula did not differ considerably: c'=1+2phi. According to
both Newton's emission theory of light and Einstein's relativity, the
intrinsic redshift produced by any celestial body is given by the
formula:

f' = f(1+phi/c^2)

where f is the initial frequency, f' is the frequency in the field-
free space (where the gravitational potential becomes maximal) and phi
is the gravitational potential difference between the point of
emission and the field-free space (0 phi). The decreased frequency
is obviously due to the decreased speed of light.

Then, if light is to travel long distance before it reaches the
observer, its speed will decrease additionally by the "tired light"
mechanism.

Pentcho Valev