No standard

On or about 2005-02-23,
Pete Lawrence illuminated us with:
On 23 Feb 2005 10:11:47 -0800, wrote:

Big topic, small people ( at least so far).

Big topics contain big nuts...

Aren't they called Snickers now? :-)

--
Mark
Real email address | Growing old is mandatory;
is mark at | growing up is optional.
ayliffe dot org |

Jonathan Silverlight wrote in message ...
In message .com,
writes
A location along longitude does NOT rotate to face the Sun every 24
hours.

Our ancestors ASSUMED constant axial rotation and corrected it by the
Equation of Time hence there is no external reference for axial
rotation through 360 degrees ,neither against the Sun nor the stars.

It may eventually dawn on somebody that the Equation of Time format
based on axial rotation/terrestial longitudes precedes the
calendrically based sidereal system or rather the sidereal format is
based on the 24 hour/360 degrees equivalency.

Big topic,small people ( at least so far).

Small topic, but apparently too big for someone who apparently never
sees daylight, let alone the stars.
Constant axial rotation is a _fact_, and can be proven without recourse
to external observation.
The equation of time has nothing to do with constant axial rotation,

Ha,ha,ha .

The Equation of Time as any sundialist will tell you facilitates the
seamless transition from one 24 hour day to the next 24 hour day using
the axial rotation against the Sun as a reference.

A half decent astronomer would tell you that the Equation of Time
represents the difference between constant axial rotation and variable
orbital motion (Kepler's second law) generating the asymmetry between
one complete rotation and the next.

So instead we have ignorant and stupid cataloguers trying to explain
the Equation of Time in terms of daylight/darkness asymmetry within a
24 hour day.

http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/as...s/980116c.html













but
the _fact_ that the Earth's axis is inclined to the plane of its orbit
and that orbit is an ellipse. So the _solar_ day, but not the sidereal
day, varies throughout the year.
How on Earth can the sidereal system be "calendrically based"? My Local
Sidereal Time is about 05:31 (thanks to
http://www.jgiesen.de/astro/astroJS/siderealClock/ for that), but
that's only useful for setting up a telescope. And as for a 24 hour/360
degree equivalency...

I strongly suggest that you study the history of longitude and how
clocks which are based on the 24 hour/360 deg equivalency for axial
rotation saved the lives of sailors.You lot destroy the lives of
children and make them believe a lie for the sake of Albert and his
spacetime freaks.

http://rubens.anu.edu.au/student.pro...aval/defin.htm

I have never come across so many perverts in one place as in
uk.sci.astronomy,people who are willing to make excuses and bluff and
bluster rather than correct a simple and obvious ****ing mistake that
began with Flamsteed.

Steve Taylor wrote:
Jim wrote:

Steve Taylor wrote:

Pete Lawrence wrote:

kicked out for being
carp.

You Fish-ist *******......
He must have been put in his plaice.


Ouch.

Not more cod psychology Jim...

For heaven's sake, have you guys nothing better to do than flounder
about for fishy puns, even if you do have dab hands for it?

Best,
Stephen

Remove footfrommouth to reply

--
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In article , Stephen Tonkin wrote:
Steve Taylor wrote:
Jim wrote:

Steve Taylor wrote:

Pete Lawrence wrote:

kicked out for being
carp.

You Fish-ist *******......
He must have been put in his plaice.


Ouch.

Not more cod psychology Jim...

For heaven's sake, have you guys nothing better to do than flounder
about for fishy puns, even if you do have dab hands for it?


Sorry. Eel be good now, and so will I.

Jim
--
Find me at http://www.ursaMinorBeta.co.uk
"Brace yourself, this might make your eyes water."

Martin Frey wrote in message . ..
wrote:

At least I can say I tried.

Yes, me, sorely. I know I shouldn't but I couldn't resist.

I had it all sussed - how the Sun goes round the earth every day and
the stars do the same but different yet somehow the same and the
planets entertain us by going backwards every now and then.

Then up pops this theoretical geezer from the 18th century and says
stop observing and, wow, my scope broke into a million shards, even
though I hadn't finished paying for it. And then this other geezer
said e=mc squared and the guarantee ran out. So that's it. Astronomy
is dead or a load of what Mr Lawrence calls carp and all that's left
is paedastronomy or the corruption of children with false clocks.
Still it's more fun than footie.

Cheers

Martin

Thanks for coining the term 'Paedastronomy' or the intentional harming
of children by passing on an indoctrination which is neither good nor
right.

It can be argued that astronomy unlike other disciplines is a harmless
pursuit where nobody gets hurt by looking through a telescope however
I have clearly stated that what you consider astronomy is really
cataloguing. Celestial cataloguing is roughly the same as birdwatching
except birdwatching is more difficult and so long as nobody has
pretensions to doing astronomy or what amounts to the same thing;
modelling of celestial motions from Earth based observations
,cataloguing is fine and a healthy pursuit.

What make be convenient for a cataloguer such as the construction of a
celestial sphere and a convenient average rate of motion of the Earth
against this sphere is highly destructive for astronomical modelling
of the motions of the Earth on its axis,around the Sun,around the
Milky Way axis and whatever greater motion there may be.

Your indoctrination and it shows in every single posting begins with
the divergence from pure Copernican/Keplerian astronomy into
Newtonian mechanics via the cataloguer Flamsteed.Basically you are
indoctrinated into believing that the astronomical progression is from
Kepler to Newton but Newton is incredibly vacuous in his astronomical
descriptions and while a cataloguer would not know, an astronomer
would.

The thin end of this huge conceptual wedge and the exact location of
the astronomical mistake can be traced back to Flamsteed's false
isochronical 'proof' for axial rotation.You cannot take the assumption
for constant axial rotation through the 24 hour/360 deg equivalency in
tandem with the Equation of Time correction and use it to prove the
average time for axial rotation as 23 hours 56 min 04 sec which
Flamsteed did.

360 Deg = 24 Hours
1 Deg = 4 Minutes
..986 Deg = 3 Min 56 Sec

http://www.nordita.dk/~steen/fysik51...s/AACHCIR0.JPG

It is entirely up to a responsible person who has no pretense other
than to get to the core of this dreadful lapse of reasoning to figure
out that shoving a .986 axial rotational coordinate based on 24
hours of axial rotation into the circumference of orbital motion
borders on insanity never mind insincerity.

In article , Oriel36 wrote:
Martin Frey wrote in message . ..
wrote:

At least I can say I tried.

Yes, me, sorely. I know I shouldn't but I couldn't resist.

I had it all sussed - how the Sun goes round the earth every day and
the stars do the same but different yet somehow the same and the
planets entertain us by going backwards every now and then.

Then up pops this theoretical geezer from the 18th century and says
stop observing and, wow, my scope broke into a million shards, even
though I hadn't finished paying for it. And then this other geezer
said e=mc squared and the guarantee ran out. So that's it. Astronomy
is dead or a load of what Mr Lawrence calls carp and all that's left
is paedastronomy or the corruption of children with false clocks.
Still it's more fun than footie.

Cheers

Martin

Thanks for coining the term 'Paedastronomy' or the intentional harming
of children by passing on an indoctrination which is neither good nor
right.

Oh, blow it out your ears.

Jim
--
Find me at http://www.ursaMinorBeta.co.uk
"Brace yourself, this might make your eyes water."

"Jim" wrote in message
...
In article , Stephen Tonkin wrote:
kicked out for being carp.

You Fish-ist *******......

He must have been put in his plaice.

Not more cod psychology Jim...

For heaven's sake, have you guys nothing better to do than flounder
about for fishy puns, even if you do have dab hands for it?

Sorry. Eel be good now, and so will I.

Will Salmon put an end to this. I'm tired of Herring this same rubish,
playing to the same old old Tuna, Skate-ing around the same old issues and
taking such a high Perch.

Can you not Discus this eslwhere.

Delighted to see that you lot woke up today as something worse than
geocentrists,I suppose you actually believe the Sun skims the horizon
,sunrise and sunset and all the other geocentric terms.

Hey,you guys let the Germans **** you over in 1905 and again in 1916
and permitted such exotic ideas as spacetime in.I wonder how pleased
the English public would be to see themselves set up like stool
pidgeons via Newton and the thoroughly English chronometer invention
used for the most spurious purposes possible.

So write your poems and correct grammar but even the creationists are
beacons of intelligence compared to you freaks,after all it is only
the most basic rotation rate of all and you lot can't figure out the
correct value and why it is that way.

Thanks for the archive, should I need to demonstrate the quality and
diversity of replies, you poor dopes have obliged as I knew you would.

wrote:
Astronomers you ain't,that much is certain.Even if you hijack the title
and others do not notice you are little more than cataloguers.

An astronomer has the final say on what works and what does'nt,the very
fact is that my astronomical heritage is in the hands of a bunch of
mathematical freaks who could'nt make an observation to save their
lives let alone distinguish between perceived motions from Earth and
actual motions.

Powerful telescopes supply more data but they are worthless in the
hands of theorists and it has been that way for centuries.Passing on
Newton's empirical illness to future generations assures that astronomy
will eventually die in all but name for the theorists have left you
nothing left to observe.

Good enough for people who have no standards , no sense of the scale
and majesty of the cosmos and no way to pass that on to future
generations.

Chaps and Trolls alike!

Min, now there's a card

Anyway what is this human going on about surely things such as this
rotational theory jobbie wasname is in the realm of the astrophysicist
not a meer looker through a telescope such as me(didnt want to brand
myself an astronomer incase he got all riled again ?

I look through my scope and enjoy what i see! How can one claim to
have(or indeed, lack) standards???

Some people really should learn to be quiet....

Rob

(Oriel36) wrote:

The Equation of Time as any sundialist will tell you facilitates the
seamless transition from one 24 hour day to the next 24 hour day using
the axial rotation against the Sun as a reference.

Agreed.

A half decent astronomer would tell you that the Equation of Time
represents the difference between constant axial rotation and variable
orbital motion (Kepler's second law) generating the asymmetry between
one complete rotation and the next.

Agreed.

So instead we have ignorant and stupid cataloguers trying to explain
the Equation of Time in terms of daylight/darkness asymmetry within a
24 hour day.

http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/as...s/980116c.html

Typical of the web - it has good stuff and poor stuff. So?

I strongly suggest that you study the history of longitude and how
clocks which are based on the 24 hour/360 deg equivalency for axial
rotation saved the lives of sailors.You lot destroy the lives of
children and make them believe a lie for the sake of Albert and his
spacetime freaks.

Agreed about the clocks giving longitude and saving lives. But the
time taken for the earth to rotate through 360 degrees is not the same
as the time taken for the hour hand to rotate through 720 degrees.

If they were the same, an accurate 24 hour clock reading noon today
would show noon in the middle of the night in late August. A clock can
never be more wrong than that. Hence the reliance on the stars as a
more stable reference for earth's rotation through 360 degrees. Quite
how this makes me a pervert remains unclear.

Cheers

Martin

--
Martin Frey
http://www.hadastro.org.uk
N 51 02 E 0 47