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  #23  
Old January 26th 05, 07:55 AM
Regnirps
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Tim Killian wrote:
When was the last time you saw a teenager:

1) build and fly a model airplane or rocket?

A few do it in an Aero class in HS. However, our HS has a one semester ground
school and a one semester intro to flight training.

2) grind/polish/figure a telescope mirror?

Once in a blue moon and always a Dobb.

3) write their own computer program?

Completely dropped from curiculum. If I ask students if they know any computer
languages they say "I use english on mine" or "What's a computer language?" The
school system periodic panics over technology are as capricious as NASA. Back
in the 60's they had a lot of us convinced that if we studied science and
engineering we would have jobs on the Moon by the time we were 35. Now that we
have all the flying cars and robot servants nobody wants to go to the Moon
anymore.

-- Charlie Springer
Old Physicist/New High School Physics Teacher

  #24  
Old January 26th 05, 09:48 AM
Tim Killian
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WARNING ---- Seriously OT here -----


Ah, but SAT scores declined while during the very same period, average
high school GPAs increased -- an odd correlation, no? Can you spell
g-r-a-d-e i-n-f-l-a-t-i-o-n? I knew you could.

Is that "specific quantifiable change" another statistical fluke, or are
you simply unable to accept the reality that we're living in a
dumbed-down America?

The apologists usually claim there is an inherent unfairness with
standardized testing (race, social class, hormonal imbalance, etc.,
etc.), this puts all that claptrap to rest:

http://www.uwgb.edu/dutchs/PSEUDOSC/DENYSAT.HTM




wrote:

Tim Killian wrote:

Some people need to have it rubbed in their faces:



http://www.collegeboard.com/prod_dow...pdf/table2.pdf

-- courtesy of the SAA "curmudgeon"

wrote:



can you point to one specific quantifiable change in society? have


you

seen any statistics or quantitative evidence to back up your claim?


if

you cant then you have no right to hold your opinion.
there is a word for what you a curmudgeon.

Henrietta


There is a glaring flaw in your logic. The scores start relatively
level then during 1972, 73,74 there is a sharp drop then relatively
level afterwards. What happened? Did everyone suddenly loose five IQ
points or is there some other statistical anomaly at work? Read the
little note at the bottom of the page. The measuring post was changed
during these years.
Knowing this, the document seems to support my argument that people
have not changed.
The SATs were recentered to REDUCE the average score to 500. this was
done in 1995. to warrant this teenagers must necessarily be getting
gradually smarter over the years.
Do you have anything else?
Henrietta


  #25  
Old January 26th 05, 04:09 PM
matt
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Tim Killian wrote in message ...
WARNING ---- Seriously OT here -----


Ah, but SAT scores declined while during the very same period, average
high school GPAs increased -- an odd correlation, no? Can you spell
g-r-a-d-e i-n-f-l-a-t-i-o-n? I knew you could.

Is that "specific quantifiable change" another statistical fluke, or are
you simply unable to accept the reality that we're living in a
dumbed-down America?

The apologists usually claim there is an inherent unfairness with
standardized testing (race, social class, hormonal imbalance, etc.,
etc.), this puts all that claptrap to rest:

http://www.uwgb.edu/dutchs/PSEUDOSC/DENYSAT.HTM




wrote:

Tim Killian wrote:

Some people need to have it rubbed in their faces:




http://www.collegeboard.com/prod_dow...enior/yr2002/p
df/table2.pdf

-- courtesy of the SAA "curmudgeon"

wrote:



can you point to one specific quantifiable change in society? have


you

seen any statistics or quantitative evidence to back up your claim?


if

you cant then you have no right to hold your opinion.
there is a word for what you a curmudgeon.

Henrietta


There is a glaring flaw in your logic. The scores start relatively
level then during 1972, 73,74 there is a sharp drop then relatively
level afterwards. What happened? Did everyone suddenly loose five IQ
points or is there some other statistical anomaly at work? Read the
little note at the bottom of the page. The measuring post was changed
during these years.
Knowing this, the document seems to support my argument that people
have not changed.
The SATs were recentered to REDUCE the average score to 500. this was
done in 1995. to warrant this teenagers must necessarily be getting
gradually smarter over the years.
Do you have anything else?
Henrietta



I must add a piece of anecdotal evidence here, which is my own personal
experience.
As a person who went to school on 2 different continents and has now
children who go to school on 2 different continents, up to college level
now, I must say that indeed our education system is really truly irrevocably
dumbed down , below world standards and hopelessly and continuously decaying
even further .
The whole scale of this phenomenon, both in time and sheer size is so huge
that microscopic or local variations can fool individuals and obscure long
term trends but the trends are there . If you want to see what high school
education should look like, go to other countries, not the USA.

best regards,
matt tudor


  #26  
Old January 26th 05, 07:31 PM
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Posts: n/a
Default


Tim Killian wrote:
WARNING ---- Seriously OT here -----


Ah, but SAT scores declined while during the very same period,

average
high school GPAs increased -- an odd correlation, no? Can you spell
g-r-a-d-e i-n-f-l-a-t-i-o-n? I knew you could.

Is that "specific quantifiable change" another statistical fluke, or

are
you simply unable to accept the reality that we're living in a
dumbed-down America?

The apologists usually claim there is an inherent unfairness with
standardized testing (race, social class, hormonal imbalance, etc.,
etc.), this puts all that claptrap to rest:

http://www.uwgb.edu/dutchs/PSEUDOSC/DENYSAT.HTM




wrote:

Tim Killian wrote:

Some people need to have it rubbed in their faces:




http://www.collegeboard.com/prod_dow...pdf/table2.pdf

-- courtesy of the SAA "curmudgeon"

wrote:



can you point to one specific quantifiable change in society? have


you

seen any statistics or quantitative evidence to back up your

claim?

if

you cant then you have no right to hold your opinion.
there is a word for what you a curmudgeon.

Henrietta


There is a glaring flaw in your logic. The scores start relatively
level then during 1972, 73,74 there is a sharp drop then relatively
level afterwards. What happened? Did everyone suddenly loose five

IQ
points or is there some other statistical anomaly at work? Read the
little note at the bottom of the page. The measuring post was

changed
during these years.
Knowing this, the document seems to support my argument that people
have not changed.
The SATs were recentered to REDUCE the average score to 500. this

was
done in 1995. to warrant this teenagers must necessarily be getting
gradually smarter over the years.
Do you have anything else?
Henrietta


You are not talking about the same subject anymore. In my first
rebuttal I agreed that the education system was dummed down. I also
agreed that the quality of education has been dropping with budget
cuts.
I was disagreeing with your statement that teenagers have become lazy
and stupid. My first argument was that if education in America were
properly funded students would still be doing as well.
In other words you are now arguing for my first point.
So, I will agree with you now.
Henrietta

 




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