ASTRO: Coronado H-Alpha imaging question

Greetings all. I've been in-between shooting planets for quite a few months
now, and I've been thinking about getting one of the Coronado H-Alpha or
Calcium-K scopes. Imaging is #1 on my list and I would like to use my
Toucam Pro. I've had great luck with it and my 8 inch scope when it comes
to planetary imaging. One thing I noticed about the Coronado scopes is that
they don't have tracking. I'm assuming tracking is a must to get some
quality pics using my Toucam. How have other solar imagers been doing it
with the Coronado scopes and webcams? Piggyback or buying a mount that can
track? Thanks in advance...

Joel

J.Warren wrote:

Greetings all. I've been in-between shooting planets for quite a few months
now, and I've been thinking about getting one of the Coronado H-Alpha or
Calcium-K scopes. Imaging is #1 on my list and I would like to use my
Toucam Pro. I've had great luck with it and my 8 inch scope when it comes
to planetary imaging. One thing I noticed about the Coronado scopes is that
they don't have tracking. I'm assuming tracking is a must to get some
quality pics using my Toucam. How have other solar imagers been doing it
with the Coronado scopes and webcams? Piggyback or buying a mount that can
track? Thanks in advance...

Joel




Just get one without a mount and piggyback it on your 8". No need for a
second mount. If you are taking whole sun images exposure times would
be so short tracking wouldn't be needed anyway with H-alpha. I've not
used the calcium filter but gather it requires longer exposure times and
likely would need tracking on your 8". Alignment wouldn't be critical
however as the exposure times would still be short compared to even very
sloppy alignment errors. I've always found planetary images stack
better if they aren't tracked well.

Rick

--
Correct domain name is arvig and it is net not com. Prefix is correct.
Third character is a zero rather than a capital "Oh".

Thanks Rick,
I'm assuming if I piggyback it my 8in will be fine as long as I leave
the cover on it. What about my finder? I'm guessing I'll need to make a
cover for it. Anyone know how long to shoot the avi and how many fps?
Thanks again.


Joel


"Rick Johnson" wrote in message
...


J.Warren wrote:

Greetings all. I've been in-between shooting planets for quite a few
months now, and I've been thinking about getting one of the Coronado
H-Alpha or Calcium-K scopes. Imaging is #1 on my list and I would like
to use my Toucam Pro. I've had great luck with it and my 8 inch scope
when it comes to planetary imaging. One thing I noticed about the
Coronado scopes is that they don't have tracking. I'm assuming tracking
is a must to get some quality pics using my Toucam. How have other solar
imagers been doing it with the Coronado scopes and webcams? Piggyback or
buying a mount that can track? Thanks in advance...

Joel




Just get one without a mount and piggyback it on your 8". No need for a
second mount. If you are taking whole sun images exposure times would be
so short tracking wouldn't be needed anyway with H-alpha. I've not used
the calcium filter but gather it requires longer exposure times and likely
would need tracking on your 8". Alignment wouldn't be critical however as
the exposure times would still be short compared to even very sloppy
alignment errors. I've always found planetary images stack better if they
aren't tracked well.

Rick

--
Correct domain name is arvig and it is net not com. Prefix is correct.
Third character is a zero rather than a capital "Oh".

Just a piece of paper will be fine for covering the finder. Use a
rubber band to hold it on. My wife sewed a cover out of elastic
material I use. Any such cover so defocuses the light it's not a
problem no matter how much gets through. Shoot as many frames as you
can without compression. With a standard USB1.1 camera that is likely
10 frames a second or less. If the camera runs in black and white mode
that will allow more 3 times the frame rate of color but note some
cameras still run 24 bits even in black and white. Least my first one
did much to my dismay. A USB 2 camera can use a much higher frame rate.
You will want plenty of frames to chose from. Larry is our resident
solar expert. I'm surprised he hasn't made a comment yet. No one does
the sun better than he does it.

Rick


J.Warren wrote:
Thanks Rick,
I'm assuming if I piggyback it my 8in will be fine as long as I leave
the cover on it. What about my finder? I'm guessing I'll need to make a
cover for it. Anyone know how long to shoot the avi and how many fps?
Thanks again.


Joel


"Rick Johnson" wrote in message
...


J.Warren wrote:


Greetings all. I've been in-between shooting planets for quite a few
months now, and I've been thinking about getting one of the Coronado
H-Alpha or Calcium-K scopes. Imaging is #1 on my list and I would like
to use my Toucam Pro. I've had great luck with it and my 8 inch scope
when it comes to planetary imaging. One thing I noticed about the
Coronado scopes is that they don't have tracking. I'm assuming tracking
is a must to get some quality pics using my Toucam. How have other solar
imagers been doing it with the Coronado scopes and webcams? Piggyback or
buying a mount that can track? Thanks in advance...

Joel




Just get one without a mount and piggyback it on your 8". No need for a
second mount. If you are taking whole sun images exposure times would be
so short tracking wouldn't be needed anyway with H-alpha. I've not used
the calcium filter but gather it requires longer exposure times and likely
would need tracking on your 8". Alignment wouldn't be critical however as
the exposure times would still be short compared to even very sloppy
alignment errors. I've always found planetary images stack better if they
aren't tracked well.

Rick

--
Correct domain name is arvig and it is net not com. Prefix is correct.
Third character is a zero rather than a capital "Oh".





--
Correct domain name is arvig and it is net not com. Prefix is correct.
Third character is a zero rather than a capital "Oh".

Thanks Rick, I am looking forward to hearing from LA. He is the best I have
seen at solar imaging. Sounds like it will pretty much be the same as
planetary imaging. My mount and fps question has been answered, but
settings for the camera is another question I have as in gain, gamma,
auto-exposure etc. I guess I should be good to go after that. Any idea on
the best way to mount it piggyback? Thanks

Joel


"Rick Johnson" wrote in message
...
Just a piece of paper will be fine for covering the finder. Use a rubber
band to hold it on. My wife sewed a cover out of elastic material I use.
Any such cover so defocuses the light it's not a problem no matter how
much gets through. Shoot as many frames as you can without compression.
With a standard USB1.1 camera that is likely 10 frames a second or less.
If the camera runs in black and white mode that will allow more 3 times
the frame rate of color but note some cameras still run 24 bits even in
black and white. Least my first one did much to my dismay. A USB 2
camera can use a much higher frame rate. You will want plenty of frames to
chose from. Larry is our resident solar expert. I'm surprised he hasn't
made a comment yet. No one does the sun better than he does it.

Rick


J.Warren wrote:
Thanks Rick,
I'm assuming if I piggyback it my 8in will be fine as long as I
leave the cover on it. What about my finder? I'm guessing I'll need to
make a cover for it. Anyone know how long to shoot the avi and how many
fps? Thanks again.


Joel


"Rick Johnson" wrote in message
...


J.Warren wrote:


Greetings all. I've been in-between shooting planets for quite a few
months now, and I've been thinking about getting one of the Coronado
H-Alpha or Calcium-K scopes. Imaging is #1 on my list and I would like
to use my Toucam Pro. I've had great luck with it and my 8 inch scope
when it comes to planetary imaging. One thing I noticed about the
Coronado scopes is that they don't have tracking. I'm assuming tracking
is a must to get some quality pics using my Toucam. How have other
solar imagers been doing it with the Coronado scopes and webcams?
Piggyback or buying a mount that can track? Thanks in advance...

Joel




Just get one without a mount and piggyback it on your 8". No need for a
second mount. If you are taking whole sun images exposure times would be
so short tracking wouldn't be needed anyway with H-alpha. I've not used
the calcium filter but gather it requires longer exposure times and
likely would need tracking on your 8". Alignment wouldn't be critical
however as the exposure times would still be short compared to even very
sloppy alignment errors. I've always found planetary images stack better
if they aren't tracked well.

Rick

--
Correct domain name is arvig and it is net not com. Prefix is correct.
Third character is a zero rather than a capital "Oh".





--
Correct domain name is arvig and it is net not com. Prefix is correct.
Third character is a zero rather than a capital "Oh".

Hey Joel cool to hear you may be coming over to the light side. I used a
Toucam for a long time and still have one as a backup camera. Solar imaging
with a Coronado, Daystar, Solar Spectrum, or Thousand Oaks H-alpha or
Calcium filter is best done with a B&W ccd. You can still do it with a
color ccd but because the light passed by these narrow band filters is so
tight, you'll be doing lots of processing to get the image to come out
correct. Several of the imagers I know use a Toucam that has been converted
to B&W using the Sony ICX098BL ccd. It replaces the one on the toucam and
makes the whole thing 3x more sensitive. Shooting at 5fps or 10fps will get
you images without compression. One of the programs I use the most for the
Toucam is the one called QCfocus. It works really great and allows you to
capture either avi or frames. Coming from doing planetary imaging I am sure
you probably already have a favorite program though.

For mounting purposes I'd suggest an Orion AstroView or better motorized EQ
type mount. I currently have a celestron CG-3 but wish I had a CG-5. I got
it pretty cheap at the local astro shop because it had a broken leg. A
little epoxy made it work good as new though so I have no complaints. The
benefits of going with a mount like the Astro View is that you can set it up
in no time and be viewing the sun pretty quick. The trick though is to have
your foundation marked. I use marked concrete pads which allow me to polar
align the scope during the day. I used my Nexstar for a while in a piggy
back config but to be honest I never did like the fact that the scope was in
the sun all day. That black tube can get pretty hot in the Texas sun. A
small motorized EQ mount worked out much better for me. Once you have it
polar aligned all you have to do is point the scope at the sun and let it
track.

Which scope(s) are you looking at getting? Below is a quick breakdown of
what I know about some of the scopes out there. One of the things to know
about Coronado filters is that they consist of 4 main parts, the front
etalon filter, the T-max detuner, the scope itsself, and the rear blocking
filter. If you get a PST you don't have to worry about this other stuff but
if you are getting just the solarmax filter set and using your own scope
you'll also need a T-max to telescope adapter. Also if getting a solar max
filter set you'll need to get the proper rear blocking filter for your scope
as well. They are named BF5 through BF30. The BF is for blocking filter
and the numeric value is for the aperature size of the unit. It also tells
you what type of scope it can be used on to view the full solar disk. The
BF5 works for scopes that have a 500mm focal length or less, the BF10 (which
I used in conjunction with my Orion 80ed) works for 1000mm focal length
scopes or less, the BF15 for 1500mm focal lenghts and the BF30 for scopes
that have 3000mm or less focal lengths.

The H-alpha PST is a great starter scope. It was built for viewing mostly
and has a built in t-max tuner and built in BF5. It can be used for imaging
but is not setup like a traditional telescope. Its focus travel is limited
and it seems to be having all sorts of QC issues with the front lens lately.
It filters the H-alpha down to 1 angstrom. You can see very nice Proms and
some surface detail. The PST design has a built in solar finder on it. You
can also upgrade these with a 2nd 40mm front filter to make the band pass
.6 ang. It buys you more contrast at a slight loss of Prom detail. The
case for these costs extra. It does come with a 20mm Kellner eyepiece.

The Calcium K-line PST is like the H-alpha model but it filters the K-line
part of the spectrum.
Many were disappointed by this scope because they were expecting to be wowed
by it like they were with the original PST. K-line is best when imaged not
viewed. Do not get one of these if you are going to do viewing with it.
The image is very dim and hard to see during the daylight hours. Its also
age dependant. As you get older you'll see less and less in it. But if
your going to do imaging then this scope can really deliver if you use a B&W
ccd. Its sort of like whitelight on steroids. The spots have more depth
and the surface shows more details too. These also have built in solar
finders and filters the K-line down to 2 angstroms. Many have said that
these scopes are hard to focus.

Keep in mind that the PST's by nature were designed for visual use. The
40mm MaxScope is more of a traditional telescope. It has all the features
of a regular telescope and can use the traditional style mounts too. It
also comes with a solar finder and a clam shell ring for mounting purposes.
It filters H-alpha down to .7 ang. That's a great spot to filter to. It
is a really good balance between prom viewing and surface detail viewing and
the scope design will allow you to connect almost any type of camera to it.
It can also be double staked with a second 40mm filter that will bring the
filtering down to .5 angstrom. All the MaxScope telescopes come with a
case.

The next in line is the 60mm MaxScope. One of these will satisfy just about
anyone looking into imaging the Sun. It provides excellent detail and is
built around a traditional style scope. A single stack filters down to .7
but it can be doubled to make it .5. It also comes with a clam shell ring
and solar finder. You can get these with your choice of blocking filter.
The BF30 will provide a straight through view which is really good for SLR
imaging. Typically you'd think that a 60mm scope wouldn't show much detail
but for the Sun it does. Its much different than imaging during the
nighttime in that the shear size of the subject and amount of light it gives
off is several times more than all other subjects. For that very reason, a
nighttime camera like the SBIG's and the other cooled cameras are out of
their element. Most do not have fast enough shutters to properly image the
sun without using ND filters. Web cams and other high speed cams are best
for solar imaging.

Now if your really wanting to go all out the 90mm MaxScope is the scope you
want. Be forewarned though, its expensive. The views you can get with it
are priceless though. About the only think I don't like about the 90
MaxScope is the focuser. All the other MaxScope have the same focuser too.
Its a helical focuser that is pretty hard to turn without shaking the whole
scope. I ended up putting a crayford on my Maxscope because of this reason.
The 90mm aperture pulls in much more light and allows you to turn a so so
day into a really good one. These scopes come with a case and full set of
CEMAX eyepieces. There has been alot of talk about whether the CEMAXs are
worth their price compared to other good eyepieces. To that I can only say
that I personally don't see the difference.

The 90 weights a good 16 to 18 lbs. The 60mm weighs in at about 3 to 4 lbs.
The 40 is less as is the PST. As far as camera settings go, I can't really
say for sure. I usually just tweak it till it looks good to me. I've had
it good at one setting once but on other days it won't work at that setting
so I have learned to adapt depending on the seeing. Some basic tips would
be to go easy on the Gain. Adding too much will increase the amount of noise
beyond a resonable level. I think 50% or less is sufficient. Shutter speed
depends on your focal lenght. Usually for prime focus I run at about
1/125th to 1/250th. To image the proms you'll have to bring it down to
1/60th or 1/30th. A larger aperture scope will allow you to image both the
surface detail and proms without having to over expose the proms.
Auto exposure does not work well with H-alpha imaging. The camera will
usually saturate. I have always use manual settings. One other thing about
using the Toucam. Be sure to cover the camera with something. The case egg
shell is translucent to some degree and has lots of light leakage. It will
take the contrast away from the image if you do not. You may also want to
disconnect the green LED at the top of the camera if you have a 740 pro
model. This will also wash out the image. I used a black spray paint lid
to cover my camera when imaging.

Like I said in the beginning a good B&W ccd is key but not essential to
getting good shots. I took some good shots with my Nikon 990 a while back.
Its hard to tell though if its good or not until after its processed. I
think you'll find that solar imaging can be very challenging but rewarding
too. Some of the best monochrome cameras out there are the Lumenera 075m
(monochrome model), the Skynyx 2.0 monochrome model, DMK21f04. There are
also larger ccds that are good but will cost you almost the price of the
scope to get. If you get a PST model you will more than likely need to use
a barlow with the Toucam. More precisely, one that features a removable
front lens. Screwing this lens onto the front of the Toucam adapter will
get you into focus.

Clear Skyz, LA




"J.Warren" wrote in message
m...
Thanks Rick, I am looking forward to hearing from LA. He is the best I
have
seen at solar imaging. Sounds like it will pretty much be the same as
planetary imaging. My mount and fps question has been answered, but
settings for the camera is another question I have as in gain, gamma,
auto-exposure etc. I guess I should be good to go after that. Any idea
on
the best way to mount it piggyback? Thanks

Joel


"Rick Johnson" wrote in message
...
Just a piece of paper will be fine for covering the finder. Use a
rubber
band to hold it on. My wife sewed a cover out of elastic material I
use.
Any such cover so defocuses the light it's not a problem no matter how
much gets through. Shoot as many frames as you can without compression.
With a standard USB1.1 camera that is likely 10 frames a second or less.
If the camera runs in black and white mode that will allow more 3 times
the frame rate of color but note some cameras still run 24 bits even in
black and white. Least my first one did much to my dismay. A USB 2
camera can use a much higher frame rate. You will want plenty of frames
to
chose from. Larry is our resident solar expert. I'm surprised he
hasn't
made a comment yet. No one does the sun better than he does it.

Rick


J.Warren wrote:
Thanks Rick,
I'm assuming if I piggyback it my 8in will be fine as long as I
leave the cover on it. What about my finder? I'm guessing I'll need
to
make a cover for it. Anyone know how long to shoot the avi and how
many
fps? Thanks again.


Joel


"Rick Johnson" wrote in message
...


J.Warren wrote:


Greetings all. I've been in-between shooting planets for quite a few
months now, and I've been thinking about getting one of the Coronado
H-Alpha or Calcium-K scopes. Imaging is #1 on my list and I would
like
to use my Toucam Pro. I've had great luck with it and my 8 inch scope
when it comes to planetary imaging. One thing I noticed about the
Coronado scopes is that they don't have tracking. I'm assuming
tracking
is a must to get some quality pics using my Toucam. How have other
solar imagers been doing it with the Coronado scopes and webcams?
Piggyback or buying a mount that can track? Thanks in advance...

Joel




Just get one without a mount and piggyback it on your 8". No need for
a
second mount. If you are taking whole sun images exposure times would
be
so short tracking wouldn't be needed anyway with H-alpha. I've not
used
the calcium filter but gather it requires longer exposure times and
likely would need tracking on your 8". Alignment wouldn't be critical
however as the exposure times would still be short compared to even
very
sloppy alignment errors. I've always found planetary images stack
better
if they aren't tracked well.

Rick

--
Correct domain name is arvig and it is net not com. Prefix is correct.
Third character is a zero rather than a capital "Oh".





--
Correct domain name is arvig and it is net not com. Prefix is correct.
Third character is a zero rather than a capital "Oh".

LA, excellent info, I do appreicate it. All I need to do now is spend the
money. I'll most likely start off with the 40mm PST and then upgrade to
the largest PST if the bug bites me. Thanks again.

Joel


"LA" wrote in message
news:yCKbh.25328$oP6.9113@trnddc03...
Hey Joel cool to hear you may be coming over to the light side. I used a
Toucam for a long time and still have one as a backup camera. Solar
imaging
with a Coronado, Daystar, Solar Spectrum, or Thousand Oaks H-alpha or
Calcium filter is best done with a B&W ccd. You can still do it with a
color ccd but because the light passed by these narrow band filters is so
tight, you'll be doing lots of processing to get the image to come out
correct. Several of the imagers I know use a Toucam that has been
converted
to B&W using the Sony ICX098BL ccd. It replaces the one on the toucam and
makes the whole thing 3x more sensitive. Shooting at 5fps or 10fps will
get
you images without compression. One of the programs I use the most for
the
Toucam is the one called QCfocus. It works really great and allows you to
capture either avi or frames. Coming from doing planetary imaging I am
sure
you probably already have a favorite program though.

For mounting purposes I'd suggest an Orion AstroView or better motorized
EQ
type mount. I currently have a celestron CG-3 but wish I had a CG-5. I
got
it pretty cheap at the local astro shop because it had a broken leg. A
little epoxy made it work good as new though so I have no complaints. The
benefits of going with a mount like the Astro View is that you can set it
up
in no time and be viewing the sun pretty quick. The trick though is to
have
your foundation marked. I use marked concrete pads which allow me to
polar
align the scope during the day. I used my Nexstar for a while in a piggy
back config but to be honest I never did like the fact that the scope was
in
the sun all day. That black tube can get pretty hot in the Texas sun. A
small motorized EQ mount worked out much better for me. Once you have it
polar aligned all you have to do is point the scope at the sun and let it
track.

Which scope(s) are you looking at getting? Below is a quick breakdown of
what I know about some of the scopes out there. One of the things to know
about Coronado filters is that they consist of 4 main parts, the front
etalon filter, the T-max detuner, the scope itsself, and the rear blocking
filter. If you get a PST you don't have to worry about this other stuff
but
if you are getting just the solarmax filter set and using your own scope
you'll also need a T-max to telescope adapter. Also if getting a solar
max
filter set you'll need to get the proper rear blocking filter for your
scope
as well. They are named BF5 through BF30. The BF is for blocking filter
and the numeric value is for the aperature size of the unit. It also
tells
you what type of scope it can be used on to view the full solar disk. The
BF5 works for scopes that have a 500mm focal length or less, the BF10
(which
I used in conjunction with my Orion 80ed) works for 1000mm focal length
scopes or less, the BF15 for 1500mm focal lenghts and the BF30 for scopes
that have 3000mm or less focal lengths.

The H-alpha PST is a great starter scope. It was built for viewing mostly
and has a built in t-max tuner and built in BF5. It can be used for
imaging
but is not setup like a traditional telescope. Its focus travel is
limited
and it seems to be having all sorts of QC issues with the front lens
lately.
It filters the H-alpha down to 1 angstrom. You can see very nice Proms
and
some surface detail. The PST design has a built in solar finder on it.
You
can also upgrade these with a 2nd 40mm front filter to make the band pass
.6 ang. It buys you more contrast at a slight loss of Prom detail. The
case for these costs extra. It does come with a 20mm Kellner eyepiece.

The Calcium K-line PST is like the H-alpha model but it filters the K-line
part of the spectrum.
Many were disappointed by this scope because they were expecting to be
wowed
by it like they were with the original PST. K-line is best when imaged
not
viewed. Do not get one of these if you are going to do viewing with it.
The image is very dim and hard to see during the daylight hours. Its also
age dependant. As you get older you'll see less and less in it. But if
your going to do imaging then this scope can really deliver if you use a
B&W
ccd. Its sort of like whitelight on steroids. The spots have more depth
and the surface shows more details too. These also have built in solar
finders and filters the K-line down to 2 angstroms. Many have said that
these scopes are hard to focus.

Keep in mind that the PST's by nature were designed for visual use. The
40mm MaxScope is more of a traditional telescope. It has all the features
of a regular telescope and can use the traditional style mounts too. It
also comes with a solar finder and a clam shell ring for mounting
purposes.
It filters H-alpha down to .7 ang. That's a great spot to filter to. It
is a really good balance between prom viewing and surface detail viewing
and
the scope design will allow you to connect almost any type of camera to
it.
It can also be double staked with a second 40mm filter that will bring the
filtering down to .5 angstrom. All the MaxScope telescopes come with a
case.

The next in line is the 60mm MaxScope. One of these will satisfy just
about
anyone looking into imaging the Sun. It provides excellent detail and is
built around a traditional style scope. A single stack filters down to
.7
but it can be doubled to make it .5. It also comes with a clam shell
ring
and solar finder. You can get these with your choice of blocking filter.
The BF30 will provide a straight through view which is really good for SLR
imaging. Typically you'd think that a 60mm scope wouldn't show much
detail
but for the Sun it does. Its much different than imaging during the
nighttime in that the shear size of the subject and amount of light it
gives
off is several times more than all other subjects. For that very reason,
a
nighttime camera like the SBIG's and the other cooled cameras are out of
their element. Most do not have fast enough shutters to properly image
the
sun without using ND filters. Web cams and other high speed cams are best
for solar imaging.

Now if your really wanting to go all out the 90mm MaxScope is the scope
you
want. Be forewarned though, its expensive. The views you can get with it
are priceless though. About the only think I don't like about the 90
MaxScope is the focuser. All the other MaxScope have the same focuser
too.
Its a helical focuser that is pretty hard to turn without shaking the
whole
scope. I ended up putting a crayford on my Maxscope because of this
reason.
The 90mm aperture pulls in much more light and allows you to turn a so so
day into a really good one. These scopes come with a case and full set of
CEMAX eyepieces. There has been alot of talk about whether the CEMAXs are
worth their price compared to other good eyepieces. To that I can only
say
that I personally don't see the difference.

The 90 weights a good 16 to 18 lbs. The 60mm weighs in at about 3 to 4
lbs.
The 40 is less as is the PST. As far as camera settings go, I can't
really
say for sure. I usually just tweak it till it looks good to me. I've had
it good at one setting once but on other days it won't work at that
setting
so I have learned to adapt depending on the seeing. Some basic tips would
be to go easy on the Gain. Adding too much will increase the amount of
noise
beyond a resonable level. I think 50% or less is sufficient. Shutter
speed
depends on your focal lenght. Usually for prime focus I run at about
1/125th to 1/250th. To image the proms you'll have to bring it down to
1/60th or 1/30th. A larger aperture scope will allow you to image both
the
surface detail and proms without having to over expose the proms.
Auto exposure does not work well with H-alpha imaging. The camera will
usually saturate. I have always use manual settings. One other thing
about
using the Toucam. Be sure to cover the camera with something. The case
egg
shell is translucent to some degree and has lots of light leakage. It
will
take the contrast away from the image if you do not. You may also want to
disconnect the green LED at the top of the camera if you have a 740 pro
model. This will also wash out the image. I used a black spray paint lid
to cover my camera when imaging.

Like I said in the beginning a good B&W ccd is key but not essential to
getting good shots. I took some good shots with my Nikon 990 a while
back.
Its hard to tell though if its good or not until after its processed. I
think you'll find that solar imaging can be very challenging but rewarding
too. Some of the best monochrome cameras out there are the Lumenera 075m
(monochrome model), the Skynyx 2.0 monochrome model, DMK21f04. There are
also larger ccds that are good but will cost you almost the price of the
scope to get. If you get a PST model you will more than likely need to
use
a barlow with the Toucam. More precisely, one that features a removable
front lens. Screwing this lens onto the front of the Toucam adapter will
get you into focus.

Clear Skyz, LA




"J.Warren" wrote in message
m...
Thanks Rick, I am looking forward to hearing from LA. He is the best I
have
seen at solar imaging. Sounds like it will pretty much be the same as
planetary imaging. My mount and fps question has been answered, but
settings for the camera is another question I have as in gain, gamma,
auto-exposure etc. I guess I should be good to go after that. Any idea
on
the best way to mount it piggyback? Thanks

Joel


"Rick Johnson" wrote in message
...
Just a piece of paper will be fine for covering the finder. Use a
rubber
band to hold it on. My wife sewed a cover out of elastic material I
use.
Any such cover so defocuses the light it's not a problem no matter how
much gets through. Shoot as many frames as you can without
compression.
With a standard USB1.1 camera that is likely 10 frames a second or
less.
If the camera runs in black and white mode that will allow more 3 times
the frame rate of color but note some cameras still run 24 bits even in
black and white. Least my first one did much to my dismay. A USB 2
camera can use a much higher frame rate. You will want plenty of frames
to
chose from. Larry is our resident solar expert. I'm surprised he
hasn't
made a comment yet. No one does the sun better than he does it.

Rick


J.Warren wrote:
Thanks Rick,
I'm assuming if I piggyback it my 8in will be fine as long as I
leave the cover on it. What about my finder? I'm guessing I'll need
to
make a cover for it. Anyone know how long to shoot the avi and how
many
fps? Thanks again.


Joel


"Rick Johnson" wrote in message
...


J.Warren wrote:


Greetings all. I've been in-between shooting planets for quite a few
months now, and I've been thinking about getting one of the Coronado
H-Alpha or Calcium-K scopes. Imaging is #1 on my list and I would
like
to use my Toucam Pro. I've had great luck with it and my 8 inch
scope
when it comes to planetary imaging. One thing I noticed about the
Coronado scopes is that they don't have tracking. I'm assuming
tracking
is a must to get some quality pics using my Toucam. How have other
solar imagers been doing it with the Coronado scopes and webcams?
Piggyback or buying a mount that can track? Thanks in advance...

Joel




Just get one without a mount and piggyback it on your 8". No need for
a
second mount. If you are taking whole sun images exposure times would
be
so short tracking wouldn't be needed anyway with H-alpha. I've not
used
the calcium filter but gather it requires longer exposure times and
likely would need tracking on your 8". Alignment wouldn't be critical
however as the exposure times would still be short compared to even
very
sloppy alignment errors. I've always found planetary images stack
better
if they aren't tracked well.

Rick

--
Correct domain name is arvig and it is net not com. Prefix is
correct.
Third character is a zero rather than a capital "Oh".





--
Correct domain name is arvig and it is net not com. Prefix is correct.
Third character is a zero rather than a capital "Oh".

It will bite and bite hard. I don't know of anyone who has seen the sun
in H-alpha that hasn't been bitten. The changes are rapid. Look 5
minutes later and you often see a very different sun. Still photos
don't do it justice. Look at Larry's movies to get a feel for what's
happening.

Rick


J.Warren wrote:

LA, excellent info, I do appreicate it. All I need to do now is spend the
money. I'll most likely start off with the 40mm PST and then upgrade to
the largest PST if the bug bites me. Thanks again.

Joel


"LA" wrote in message
news:yCKbh.25328$oP6.9113@trnddc03...

Hey Joel cool to hear you may be coming over to the light side. I used a
Toucam for a long time and still have one as a backup camera. Solar
imaging
with a Coronado, Daystar, Solar Spectrum, or Thousand Oaks H-alpha or
Calcium filter is best done with a B&W ccd. You can still do it with a
color ccd but because the light passed by these narrow band filters is so
tight, you'll be doing lots of processing to get the image to come out
correct. Several of the imagers I know use a Toucam that has been
converted
to B&W using the Sony ICX098BL ccd. It replaces the one on the toucam and
makes the whole thing 3x more sensitive. Shooting at 5fps or 10fps will
get
you images without compression. One of the programs I use the most for
the
Toucam is the one called QCfocus. It works really great and allows you to
capture either avi or frames. Coming from doing planetary imaging I am
sure
you probably already have a favorite program though.

For mounting purposes I'd suggest an Orion AstroView or better motorized
EQ
type mount. I currently have a celestron CG-3 but wish I had a CG-5. I
got
it pretty cheap at the local astro shop because it had a broken leg. A
little epoxy made it work good as new though so I have no complaints. The
benefits of going with a mount like the Astro View is that you can set it
up
in no time and be viewing the sun pretty quick. The trick though is to
have
your foundation marked. I use marked concrete pads which allow me to
polar
align the scope during the day. I used my Nexstar for a while in a piggy
back config but to be honest I never did like the fact that the scope was
in
the sun all day. That black tube can get pretty hot in the Texas sun. A
small motorized EQ mount worked out much better for me. Once you have it
polar aligned all you have to do is point the scope at the sun and let it
track.

Which scope(s) are you looking at getting? Below is a quick breakdown of
what I know about some of the scopes out there. One of the things to know
about Coronado filters is that they consist of 4 main parts, the front
etalon filter, the T-max detuner, the scope itsself, and the rear blocking
filter. If you get a PST you don't have to worry about this other stuff
but
if you are getting just the solarmax filter set and using your own scope
you'll also need a T-max to telescope adapter. Also if getting a solar
max
filter set you'll need to get the proper rear blocking filter for your
scope
as well. They are named BF5 through BF30. The BF is for blocking filter
and the numeric value is for the aperature size of the unit. It also
tells
you what type of scope it can be used on to view the full solar disk. The
BF5 works for scopes that have a 500mm focal length or less, the BF10
(which
I used in conjunction with my Orion 80ed) works for 1000mm focal length
scopes or less, the BF15 for 1500mm focal lenghts and the BF30 for scopes
that have 3000mm or less focal lengths.

The H-alpha PST is a great starter scope. It was built for viewing mostly
and has a built in t-max tuner and built in BF5. It can be used for
imaging
but is not setup like a traditional telescope. Its focus travel is
limited
and it seems to be having all sorts of QC issues with the front lens
lately.
It filters the H-alpha down to 1 angstrom. You can see very nice Proms
and
some surface detail. The PST design has a built in solar finder on it.
You
can also upgrade these with a 2nd 40mm front filter to make the band pass
.6 ang. It buys you more contrast at a slight loss of Prom detail. The
case for these costs extra. It does come with a 20mm Kellner eyepiece.

The Calcium K-line PST is like the H-alpha model but it filters the K-line
part of the spectrum.
Many were disappointed by this scope because they were expecting to be
wowed
by it like they were with the original PST. K-line is best when imaged
not
viewed. Do not get one of these if you are going to do viewing with it.
The image is very dim and hard to see during the daylight hours. Its also
age dependant. As you get older you'll see less and less in it. But if
your going to do imaging then this scope can really deliver if you use a
B&W
ccd. Its sort of like whitelight on steroids. The spots have more depth
and the surface shows more details too. These also have built in solar
finders and filters the K-line down to 2 angstroms. Many have said that
these scopes are hard to focus.

Keep in mind that the PST's by nature were designed for visual use. The
40mm MaxScope is more of a traditional telescope. It has all the features
of a regular telescope and can use the traditional style mounts too. It
also comes with a solar finder and a clam shell ring for mounting
purposes.
It filters H-alpha down to .7 ang. That's a great spot to filter to. It
is a really good balance between prom viewing and surface detail viewing
and
the scope design will allow you to connect almost any type of camera to
it.
It can also be double staked with a second 40mm filter that will bring the
filtering down to .5 angstrom. All the MaxScope telescopes come with a
case.

The next in line is the 60mm MaxScope. One of these will satisfy just
about
anyone looking into imaging the Sun. It provides excellent detail and is
built around a traditional style scope. A single stack filters down to
.7
but it can be doubled to make it .5. It also comes with a clam shell
ring
and solar finder. You can get these with your choice of blocking filter.
The BF30 will provide a straight through view which is really good for SLR
imaging. Typically you'd think that a 60mm scope wouldn't show much
detail
but for the Sun it does. Its much different than imaging during the
nighttime in that the shear size of the subject and amount of light it
gives
off is several times more than all other subjects. For that very reason,
a
nighttime camera like the SBIG's and the other cooled cameras are out of
their element. Most do not have fast enough shutters to properly image
the
sun without using ND filters. Web cams and other high speed cams are best
for solar imaging.

Now if your really wanting to go all out the 90mm MaxScope is the scope
you
want. Be forewarned though, its expensive. The views you can get with it
are priceless though. About the only think I don't like about the 90
MaxScope is the focuser. All the other MaxScope have the same focuser
too.
Its a helical focuser that is pretty hard to turn without shaking the
whole
scope. I ended up putting a crayford on my Maxscope because of this
reason.
The 90mm aperture pulls in much more light and allows you to turn a so so
day into a really good one. These scopes come with a case and full set of
CEMAX eyepieces. There has been alot of talk about whether the CEMAXs are
worth their price compared to other good eyepieces. To that I can only
say
that I personally don't see the difference.

The 90 weights a good 16 to 18 lbs. The 60mm weighs in at about 3 to 4
lbs.
The 40 is less as is the PST. As far as camera settings go, I can't
really
say for sure. I usually just tweak it till it looks good to me. I've had
it good at one setting once but on other days it won't work at that
setting
so I have learned to adapt depending on the seeing. Some basic tips would
be to go easy on the Gain. Adding too much will increase the amount of
noise
beyond a resonable level. I think 50% or less is sufficient. Shutter
speed
depends on your focal lenght. Usually for prime focus I run at about
1/125th to 1/250th. To image the proms you'll have to bring it down to
1/60th or 1/30th. A larger aperture scope will allow you to image both
the
surface detail and proms without having to over expose the proms.
Auto exposure does not work well with H-alpha imaging. The camera will
usually saturate. I have always use manual settings. One other thing
about
using the Toucam. Be sure to cover the camera with something. The case
egg
shell is translucent to some degree and has lots of light leakage. It
will
take the contrast away from the image if you do not. You may also want to
disconnect the green LED at the top of the camera if you have a 740 pro
model. This will also wash out the image. I used a black spray paint lid
to cover my camera when imaging.

Like I said in the beginning a good B&W ccd is key but not essential to
getting good shots. I took some good shots with my Nikon 990 a while
back.
Its hard to tell though if its good or not until after its processed. I
think you'll find that solar imaging can be very challenging but rewarding
too. Some of the best monochrome cameras out there are the Lumenera 075m
(monochrome model), the Skynyx 2.0 monochrome model, DMK21f04. There are
also larger ccds that are good but will cost you almost the price of the
scope to get. If you get a PST model you will more than likely need to
use
a barlow with the Toucam. More precisely, one that features a removable
front lens. Screwing this lens onto the front of the Toucam adapter will
get you into focus.

Clear Skyz, LA




"J.Warren" wrote in message
news:BLWdnSPDuv2a0PLYnZ2dnUVZ_u6dnZ2d@amaonline. com...

Thanks Rick, I am looking forward to hearing from LA. He is the best I

have

seen at solar imaging. Sounds like it will pretty much be the same as
planetary imaging. My mount and fps question has been answered, but
settings for the camera is another question I have as in gain, gamma,
auto-exposure etc. I guess I should be good to go after that. Any idea

on

the best way to mount it piggyback? Thanks

Joel


"Rick Johnson" wrote in message
...

Just a piece of paper will be fine for covering the finder. Use a

rubber

band to hold it on. My wife sewed a cover out of elastic material I

use.

Any such cover so defocuses the light it's not a problem no matter how
much gets through. Shoot as many frames as you can without
compression.
With a standard USB1.1 camera that is likely 10 frames a second or
less.
If the camera runs in black and white mode that will allow more 3 times
the frame rate of color but note some cameras still run 24 bits even in
black and white. Least my first one did much to my dismay. A USB 2
camera can use a much higher frame rate. You will want plenty of frames

to

chose from. Larry is our resident solar expert. I'm surprised he

hasn't

made a comment yet. No one does the sun better than he does it.

Rick


J.Warren wrote:

Thanks Rick,
I'm assuming if I piggyback it my 8in will be fine as long as I
leave the cover on it. What about my finder? I'm guessing I'll need

to

make a cover for it. Anyone know how long to shoot the avi and how

many

fps? Thanks again.


Joel


"Rick Johnson" wrote in message
...


J.Warren wrote:



Greetings all. I've been in-between shooting planets for quite a few
months now, and I've been thinking about getting one of the Coronado
H-Alpha or Calcium-K scopes. Imaging is #1 on my list and I would

like

to use my Toucam Pro. I've had great luck with it and my 8 inch
scope
when it comes to planetary imaging. One thing I noticed about the
Coronado scopes is that they don't have tracking. I'm assuming

tracking

is a must to get some quality pics using my Toucam. How have other
solar imagers been doing it with the Coronado scopes and webcams?
Piggyback or buying a mount that can track? Thanks in advance...

Joel




Just get one without a mount and piggyback it on your 8". No need for

a

second mount. If you are taking whole sun images exposure times would

be

so short tracking wouldn't be needed anyway with H-alpha. I've not

used

the calcium filter but gather it requires longer exposure times and
likely would need tracking on your 8". Alignment wouldn't be critical
however as the exposure times would still be short compared to even

very

sloppy alignment errors. I've always found planetary images stack

better

if they aren't tracked well.

Rick

--
Correct domain name is arvig and it is net not com. Prefix is
correct.
Third character is a zero rather than a capital "Oh".




--
Correct domain name is arvig and it is net not com. Prefix is correct.
Third character is a zero rather than a capital "Oh".







--
Correct domain name is arvig and it is net not com. Prefix is correct.
Third character is a zero rather than a capital "Oh".