... After Spielberg, who will speak out next?

On Feb 19, 12:03*am, "Jonathan" wrote:
"PaPaPeng" wrote in messagenews:uijcr39kpa5ig972an1vtvtost0mtvrrdg@4ax .com...
After Spielberg, who will speak out next?
Elana Schor in Washington
The Guardian, Saturday February 16 2008
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008...ympicgames2008

The COC should get a prompt confirmation as to whether the American
advisors, consultants, songwriters, etc. are going to honor their
contracts. *My earlier feedback was that they are paid very
generously. *If they intend to break their contracts then get that in
writing. *Start legal proceedings to sue them big bucks. * That's the
American Way. *Sue them both in US courts and in Chinese courts.
Start with Spielberg. *He was employed as an advisor. *He is not the
type who works for free. *Since he broke his contract on political and
not on artistic grounds sue him.

What I don't understand is that China has many very highly talented
artistes, composers, large event organizers and every thing else.
They can put on an excellent show any day. *Why this import of
Hollywood glitz?

You still don't get it. The international cooperation will serve to
legitimize the communist dictatorship in Beijing. It's....everything
to the CCP that as *many foreign institutions be involved as
possible.

You still don't get it. There is nothing at issue with whether the
international cooperation
will consolidate a dictatorship in Beijing, communist or otherwise.
The issue is whether
international cooperation will smooth the way of killing in Sudan.

In order to argue for the former, you have to demonstrate that this
dictatorship in Beijing is
counterproductive to the development of China.



And Spielberg's resignation is huge, it creates a symbolic litmus test
to all others now involved in the Beijing Olympics.
Do you folks know what a snowball tends to do...once... it gets rolling
downhill??? *

Spielberg just starting the ball rolling. One or two more high profile
resignations and it'll quickly turn into a flood. I'm not surprised really
that Beijing failed to predict the political tactics that will be used.

It's the oldest political trick in the book, it's called 'Guilt by Assocation".

Anyone that helps the CCP had better be prepared to be associated
with, and held indirectly responsible for, the very worst crimes and
policies of the CCP. * That old policy of outlawing brothers and sisters
for instance...the one child policy.

And considering all the crimes the CCP has, and does, commmit on a
regular basis, this is a 'target rich environment' for political activists..

I think the CCP would be better off making up some excuse and
cancelling the Olympics now, rather than suffer the extended
humiliation to be witnessed by everyone, live and on large screen
...High Definition Televisions.

It's going to be spectacular, to see a turning point in human history
live and in hdtv. Where the world stands up and clearly states
...democracy not dictatorship, is the only path to a future
that creates..."One World One Dream".

Jonathan

s



* I certainly don't want to to to China to see
Hollywood. *I can see that Hollywood fluff any day. *What I want to
see is the best China has to offer and China has plenty of unique arts
and culture to offer.

================================================== ======

*Steven Spielberg was just the beginning. The Oscar-winning director's
decision to resign as an artistic adviser to the Beijing Olympics this
summer was a major victory for human rights groups working to shine an
embarrassing international spotlight on China's role in the mass
killings in Darfur.

But activists are not letting up, intensifying their focus on
corporate sponsors of the Olympics and other celebrities lending their
name to the games. The big names who remain on board the Beijing
creative team include Quincy Jones, who said this week that he was
reconsidering his deal to write the Olympics theme song, and film
director Ang Lee, who censored his latest film for broadcast in China
at the government's request.

"These people I know are under some pressure now to make a statement,"
said Jill Savitt, director of Dream for Darfur, which aims to push
China into using its influence with the Sudanese government to end the
brutal violence in the Darfur region.

"We saw this with Spielberg: it's not an intuitive issue," Savitt
added. "How is China related to the Darfur genocide? ... There's a
whole lot of activity going on, with these folks beginning to educate
themselves."

Zhang Yimou, the Chinese-born director of action films Hero and Raise
the Red Lantern, is also serving as an artistic adviser to the
Olympics, and classical cellist Yo-Yo Ma plans to tour and perform
during the Special Olympics in Shanghai. In the wake of Spielberg's
withdrawal, campaigners are seeking more high-profile criticism of
China for its continued weapons and oil sales to Sudan while Darfur is
engulfed by violence.

"Spielberg has done more as one person to draw attention to the issue
probably since George Clooney went to Darfur for the first time," said
Martha Heinemann Bixby, executive director of Team Darfur, which
raises awareness of the Africa crisis among athletes.

For the corporations that are linking their brand to the games,
however, activists are using a different kind of pressure. Dream for
Darfur met 19 Olympic sponsors in June, asking them to commit to four
gestures, Savitt said.

When the group assembled a "report card" on the corporations'
cooperation, 13 of the 19 got failing grades. General Electric earned
a C-plus for simply noting China's friendship with the Sudanese regime
during discussions with the International Olympic Committee. "Not
exactly a profile in courage," Savitt said.

Despite the dismal performance from corporate sponsors such as
Microsoft, McDonald's, and Coca-Cola, a second report card is
forthcoming from the group. The requests are still simple: businesses
are asked to meet the actor Mia Farrow, who played a major role in
persuading Spielberg to withdraw from the games; contact UN officials
about the status of peacekeepers in Darfur; and call for Sudanese
officials who are under indictment at the international criminal court
to be barred from the Olympics.

And any companies scoring below a C on the second report card will
earn public demonstrations at their offices, Savitt vowed, most likely
with survivors of Darfur. Another consequence will come in the form of
a mass boycott of TV adverts run by the Olympic sponsors, a campaign
called Turn Off For Darfur.

The activists' goal is not an outright boycott of the summer games,
which they believe would hurt the athletes more than force China into
improving its human rights record. Instead they plan to use the event
as a test of Beijing's ability to tolerate dissent.

Dream for Darfur is making secret plans for a public protest during
the Olympics that it fears could endanger the safety of those
participating, should the Chinese government react violently.

Members of the US Congress - led by African-American representatives
as well as some of the most conservative politicians in Washington -
are doing their part to discomfit protocol-minded China over its
failure to exert leverage with the Sudanese. The Darfur conflict has
killed hundreds of thousands and caused a flood of more than 2 million
refugees into neighbouring countries.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Dale Houstman wrote:
You might have heard of it? During the Great Depression, many nations
either did fall or were near to falling into fascism, or communism.
That would include the U.S. where only FDR's swift co-option of
certain socialist goals saved this country from very likely becoming
one of those communist places you so ineptly illustrate.

Don't forget that little fascist coup plot against FDR that got thwarted
as well: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot

Pat

On Mon, 18 Feb 2008 05:05:08 -0600, in a place far, far away, Pat
Flannery made the phosphor on my monitor glow in
such a way as to indicate that:



Dale Houstman wrote:
You might have heard of it? During the Great Depression, many nations
either did fall or were near to falling into fascism, or communism.
That would include the U.S. where only FDR's swift co-option of
certain socialist goals saved this country from very likely becoming
one of those communist places you so ineptly illustrate.

Don't forget that little fascist coup plot against FDR that got thwarted
as well: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot

Just one group of fascists against another.

"PaPaPeng" wrote in message ...

After Spielberg, who will speak out next?
Elana Schor in Washington
The Guardian, Saturday February 16 2008
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008...ympicgames2008

The COC should get a prompt confirmation as to whether the American
advisors, consultants, songwriters, etc. are going to honor their
contracts. My earlier feedback was that they are paid very
generously. If they intend to break their contracts then get that in
writing. Start legal proceedings to sue them big bucks. That's the
American Way. Sue them both in US courts and in Chinese courts.
Start with Spielberg. He was employed as an advisor. He is not the
type who works for free. Since he broke his contract on political and
not on artistic grounds sue him.

What I don't understand is that China has many very highly talented
artistes, composers, large event organizers and every thing else.
They can put on an excellent show any day. Why this import of
Hollywood glitz?


You still don't get it. The international cooperation will serve to
legitimize the communist dictatorship in Beijing. It's....everything
to the CCP that as many foreign institutions be involved as
possible.

And Spielberg's resignation is huge, it creates a symbolic litmus test
to all others now involved in the Beijing Olympics.
Do you folks know what a snowball tends to do...once... it gets rolling
downhill???

Spielberg just starting the ball rolling. One or two more high profile
resignations and it'll quickly turn into a flood. I'm not surprised really
that Beijing failed to predict the political tactics that will be used.

It's the oldest political trick in the book, it's called 'Guilt by Assocation".

Anyone that helps the CCP had better be prepared to be associated
with, and held indirectly responsible for, the very worst crimes and
policies of the CCP. That old policy of outlawing brothers and sisters
for instance...the one child policy.

And considering all the crimes the CCP has, and does, commmit on a
regular basis, this is a 'target rich environment' for political activists.

I think the CCP would be better off making up some excuse and
cancelling the Olympics now, rather than suffer the extended
humiliation to be witnessed by everyone, live and on large screen
....High Definition Televisions.


It's going to be spectacular, to see a turning point in human history
live and in hdtv. Where the world stands up and clearly states
....democracy not dictatorship, is the only path to a future
that creates..."One World One Dream".



Jonathan


s






I certainly don't want to to to China to see
Hollywood. I can see that Hollywood fluff any day. What I want to
see is the best China has to offer and China has plenty of unique arts
and culture to offer.

================================================== ======

Steven Spielberg was just the beginning. The Oscar-winning director's
decision to resign as an artistic adviser to the Beijing Olympics this
summer was a major victory for human rights groups working to shine an
embarrassing international spotlight on China's role in the mass
killings in Darfur.

But activists are not letting up, intensifying their focus on
corporate sponsors of the Olympics and other celebrities lending their
name to the games. The big names who remain on board the Beijing
creative team include Quincy Jones, who said this week that he was
reconsidering his deal to write the Olympics theme song, and film
director Ang Lee, who censored his latest film for broadcast in China
at the government's request.

"These people I know are under some pressure now to make a statement,"
said Jill Savitt, director of Dream for Darfur, which aims to push
China into using its influence with the Sudanese government to end the
brutal violence in the Darfur region.

"We saw this with Spielberg: it's not an intuitive issue," Savitt
added. "How is China related to the Darfur genocide? ... There's a
whole lot of activity going on, with these folks beginning to educate
themselves."

Zhang Yimou, the Chinese-born director of action films Hero and Raise
the Red Lantern, is also serving as an artistic adviser to the
Olympics, and classical cellist Yo-Yo Ma plans to tour and perform
during the Special Olympics in Shanghai. In the wake of Spielberg's
withdrawal, campaigners are seeking more high-profile criticism of
China for its continued weapons and oil sales to Sudan while Darfur is
engulfed by violence.

"Spielberg has done more as one person to draw attention to the issue
probably since George Clooney went to Darfur for the first time," said
Martha Heinemann Bixby, executive director of Team Darfur, which
raises awareness of the Africa crisis among athletes.

For the corporations that are linking their brand to the games,
however, activists are using a different kind of pressure. Dream for
Darfur met 19 Olympic sponsors in June, asking them to commit to four
gestures, Savitt said.

When the group assembled a "report card" on the corporations'
cooperation, 13 of the 19 got failing grades. General Electric earned
a C-plus for simply noting China's friendship with the Sudanese regime
during discussions with the International Olympic Committee. "Not
exactly a profile in courage," Savitt said.

Despite the dismal performance from corporate sponsors such as
Microsoft, McDonald's, and Coca-Cola, a second report card is
forthcoming from the group. The requests are still simple: businesses
are asked to meet the actor Mia Farrow, who played a major role in
persuading Spielberg to withdraw from the games; contact UN officials
about the status of peacekeepers in Darfur; and call for Sudanese
officials who are under indictment at the international criminal court
to be barred from the Olympics.

And any companies scoring below a C on the second report card will
earn public demonstrations at their offices, Savitt vowed, most likely
with survivors of Darfur. Another consequence will come in the form of
a mass boycott of TV adverts run by the Olympic sponsors, a campaign
called Turn Off For Darfur.

The activists' goal is not an outright boycott of the summer games,
which they believe would hurt the athletes more than force China into
improving its human rights record. Instead they plan to use the event
as a test of Beijing's ability to tolerate dissent.

Dream for Darfur is making secret plans for a public protest during
the Olympics that it fears could endanger the safety of those
participating, should the Chinese government react violently.

Members of the US Congress - led by African-American representatives
as well as some of the most conservative politicians in Washington -
are doing their part to discomfit protocol-minded China over its
failure to exert leverage with the Sudanese. The Darfur conflict has
killed hundreds of thousands and caused a flood of more than 2 million
refugees into neighbouring countries.

Rand Simberg wrote:
On Mon, 18 Feb 2008 05:05:08 -0600, in a place far, far away, Pat
Flannery made the phosphor on my monitor glow in
such a way as to indicate that:


Dale Houstman wrote:
You might have heard of it? During the Great Depression, many nations
either did fall or were near to falling into fascism, or communism.
That would include the U.S. where only FDR's swift co-option of
certain socialist goals saved this country from very likely becoming
one of those communist places you so ineptly illustrate.
Don't forget that little fascist coup plot against FDR that got thwarted
as well: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot

Just one group of fascists against another.

You are indeed, Rand, a fascist, according to the now commonly accepted
consensus definition :

http://www.secularhumanism.org/libra...britt_23_2.htm

Analysis of these seven regimes reveals fourteen common threads that
link them in recognizable patterns of national behavior and abuse of
power. These basic characteristics are more prevalent and intense in
some regimes than in others, but they all share at least some level of
similarity.

1. Powerful and continuing expressions of nationalism. From the
prominent displays of flags and bunting to the ubiquitous lapel pins,
the fervor to show patriotic nationalism, both on the part of the regime
itself and of citizens caught up in its frenzy, was always obvious.
Catchy slogans, pride in the military, and demands for unity were common
themes in expressing this nationalism. It was usually coupled with a
suspicion of things foreign that often bordered on xenophobia.

2. Disdain for the importance of human rights. The regimes themselves
viewed human rights as of little value and a hindrance to realizing the
objectives of the ruling elite. Through clever use of propaganda, the
population was brought to accept these human rights abuses by
marginalizing, even demonizing, those being targeted. When abuse was
egregious, the tactic was to use secrecy, denial, and disinformation.

3. Identification of enemies/scapegoats as a unifying cause. The most
significant common thread among these regimes was the use of
scapegoating as a means to divert the people’s attention from other
problems, to shift blame for failures, and to channel frustration in
controlled directions. The methods of choice—relentless propaganda and
disinformation—were usually effective. Often the regimes would incite
“spontaneous” acts against the target scapegoats, usually communists,
socialists, liberals, Jews, ethnic and racial minorities, traditional
national enemies, members of other religions, secularists, homosexuals,
and “terrorists.” Active opponents of these regimes were inevitably
labeled as terrorists and dealt with accordingly.

4. The supremacy of the military/avid militarism. Ruling elites always
identified closely with the military and the industrial infrastructure
that supported it. A disproportionate share of national resources was
allocated to the military, even when domestic needs were acute. The
military was seen as an expression of nationalism, and was used whenever
possible to assert national goals, intimidate other nations, and
increase the power and prestige of the ruling elite.

5. Rampant sexism. Beyond the simple fact that the political elite and
the national culture were male-dominated, these regimes inevitably
viewed women as second-class citizens. They were adamantly anti-abortion
and also homophobic. These attitudes were usually codified in Draconian
laws that enjoyed strong support by the orthodox religion of the
country, thus lending the regime cover for its abuses.

6. A controlled mass media. Under some of the regimes, the mass media
were under strict direct control and could be relied upon never to stray
from the party line. Other regimes exercised more subtle power to ensure
media orthodoxy. Methods included the control of licensing and access to
resources, economic pressure, appeals to patriotism, and implied
threats. The leaders of the mass media were often politically compatible
with the power elite. The result was usually success in keeping the
general public unaware of the regimes’ excesses.

7. Obsession with national security. Inevitably, a national security
apparatus was under direct control of the ruling elite. It was usually
an instrument of oppression, operating in secret and beyond any
constraints. Its actions were justified under the rubric of protecting
“national security,” and questioning its activities was portrayed as
unpatriotic or even treasonous.

8. Religion and ruling elite tied together. Unlike communist regimes,
the fascist and protofascist regimes were never proclaimed as godless by
their opponents. In fact, most of the regimes attached themselves to the
predominant religion of the country and chose to portray themselves as
militant defenders of that religion. The fact that the ruling elite’s
behavior was incompatible with the precepts of the religion was
generally swept under the rug. Propaganda kept up the illusion that the
ruling elites were defenders of the faith and opponents of the
“godless.” A perception was manufactured that opposing the power elite
was tantamount to an attack on religion.

9. Power of corporations protected. Although the personal life of
ordinary citizens was under strict control, the ability of large
corporations to operate in relative freedom was not compromised. The
ruling elite saw the corporate structure as a way to not only ensure
military production (in developed states), but also as an additional
means of social control. Members of the economic elite were often
pampered by the political elite to ensure a continued mutuality of
interests, especially in the repression of “have-not” citizens.

10. Power of labor suppressed or eliminated. Since organized labor was
seen as the one power center that could challenge the political hegemony
of the ruling elite and its corporate allies, it was inevitably crushed
or made powerless. The poor formed an underclass, viewed with suspicion
or outright contempt. Under some regimes, being poor was considered akin
to a vice.

11. Disdain and suppression of intellectuals and the arts. Intellectuals
and the inherent freedom of ideas and expression associated with them
were anathema to these regimes. Intellectual and academic freedom were
considered subversive to national security and the patriotic ideal.
Universities were tightly controlled; politically unreliable faculty
harassed or eliminated. Unorthodox ideas or expressions of dissent were
strongly attacked, silenced, or crushed. To these regimes, art and
literature should serve the national interest or they had no right to exist.

12. Obsession with crime and punishment. Most of these regimes
maintained Draconian systems of criminal justice with huge prison
populations. The police were often glorified and had almost unchecked
power, leading to rampant abuse. “Normal” and political crime were often
merged into trumped-up criminal charges and sometimes used against
political opponents of the regime. Fear, and hatred, of criminals or
“traitors” was often promoted among the population as an excuse for more
police power.

13. Rampant cronyism and corruption. Those in business circles and close
to the power elite often used their position to enrich themselves. This
corruption worked both ways; the power elite would receive financial
gifts and property from the economic elite, who in turn would gain the
benefit of government favoritism. Members of the power elite were in a
position to obtain vast wealth from other sources as well: for example,
by stealing national resources. With the national security apparatus
under control and the media muzzled, this corruption was largely
unconstrained and not well understood by the general population.

14. Fraudulent elections. Elections in the form of plebiscites or public
opinion polls were usually bogus. When actual elections with candidates
were held, they would usually be perverted by the power elite to get the
desired result. Common methods included maintaining control of the
election machinery, intimidating and disenfranchising opposition voters,
destroying or disallowing legal votes, and, as a last resort, turning to
a judiciary beholden to the power elite.

Does any of this ring alarm bells? Of course not. After all, this is
America, officially a democracy with the rule of law, a constitution, a
free press, honest elections, and a well-informed public constantly
being put on guard against evils. Historical comparisons like these are
just exercises in verbal gymnastics. Maybe, maybe not.

"kT" wrote in message ...
Jonathan wrote:
"kT" wrote in message ...
Jonathan wrote:

It's going to be spectacular, to see a turning point in human history
live and in hdtv. Where the world stands up and clearly states
...democracy not dictatorship, is the only path to a future
that creates..."One World One Dream".
But what if your 'One World Democracy' degenerates into corruption,
anarchy and chaos, any sort of plan B? Or do you just plan to capitalize
on the fiasco by presenting yourself as the world's foremost complexity
theorist? This 'One World Democracy' thing itself sounds like a sort of
dictatorship on one hand, and outright communism on the other. There is
very little that separates these thing in the human corruption phase
space, and if their distributions become degenerate, there could be
trouble. Do you have some sort of equation or theorem to deal with this?


The logic is very simple.

The system structure of a dictatorship almost
guarantees a viscous cycle towards complete
self destruction. Generally taking most of its
people and that part of the world ...with it.
I need only to point to the wars of the last century
as clear evidence of this ...established fact.

Then you should have no problem quantifying this into equations, being
the world renowned complexity theorist that you are. Equations please.

The system structure, in the ideal, of a democracy
or free market system has the strong tendency
for spontaneous order, vastly nested self correcting
mechanisms, and a direction over time towards
more stability and prosperity.

Again, equations only please.


Oh! So you really want the math? This is the very first time
anyone has really asked for it. Where do I start?
This is not going to be a short reply.

The difference between a dictatorship and a democracy is
essentially the difference between a complex system and
a simple or non-complex system. However, the concept of
simple and complex are entirely different than the popular uses.
You must understand the new definition of complex as given
by 'complexity' science.

The above statements concerning dictatorships vs democracy
as seen through an evolutionary view are derived from the
properties of a complex adaptive system (CAS). This is
an abstract system structure that models a generic
self organizing or naturally evolving/Darwinian system.
A CAS defines the optimum natural form for ....any....real world
complex dynamic system. To diagnose or design ....any....complex
dynamic system one would simply compare it to the CAS template.


From the Univ of Mich


"In a complex system the agents are usually numerous, diverse
and dynamic. They are intelligent but not perfect decision-makers.
They learn and adapt in response to feedback from their activities.
They interact in structured ways, often forming organizations to
carry out their tasks. They operate in a dynamic world that is
rarely in equilibrium and often in chaos. To emphasize the learning
and adaptation that occur in these dynamic worlds, we often
call these systems "complex adaptive systems."

In a non-complex system, the agents are usually few or infinite in
number, they are often identical to each other and perfectly rational.
Their encounters are random and their world is a static one in
complete equilibrium.

Often, attributes of complex systems models in one field, such
as ecology, have much in common with characteristics of
other fields, such as immunology or economics.
As a result, the complex systems approach is inherently
interdisciplinary; insights and results can be translated
across fields."
http://cscs.umich.edu/about/complexity.html



You see, complexity science gives the correct answer in advance
....in the abstract. It is up to the user to translate from the abstract
to the actual. This can ONLY be done if we begin...entirely...
in abstract terms. So that specific part properties can
be substitued in as needed for any given problem later.

I've only spent the significant time and effort to solve another
discipline through these concepts once. A stock trading system.
(I'd be glad to brag about that another day if you want
to know how to retire early without really trying)

Once this, and a few other concepts are understood, it becomes
trivial to see that a dictatorship, in abstract also, generally
defines the complete antithesis of a CAS.

The first concept you MUST understand before trying to
grapple with a CAS, is the ....new...definition of complexity
as defined by 'complexity' science. And also the basics properties
of random boolean networks and attractors. Going ahead without
understanding these tconcepts is like trying to discuss calculus
without knowing what an integral is, or how to differentiate.
Everything I say will sound like jibberish.


You demand exact equations though!

Complexity science is in essence the search for K-crit...or the
complex realm...or the edge of chaos...or whatever it's called now.
This is the ....one place...the only place....where
NO EXACT ANSWERS ARE POSSIBLE.

As that place is the source of all order in the universe, both for
the physical and living worlds. The underlying force for creation
is the same for everything in the universe. The thing is....
you can only see this from the emergent properties of
the most...complex...the universe has to offer....life.
These universal and defining properties CANNOT be
seen from the SIMPLEST the universe has to offer
as in reductionism and particle physics etc.

We've been searching in the complete wrong direction for the
Grand Theory all this time.

Random Boolean Networks

My 'bare' explanation....we all understand that reality is
chock full of random events, totally random or chaotic
interactions that cannot be predicted or quantified
very well if at all. And this realization in terms of
evolution gives us the intuitive idea that life is
the result of extraordinary luck. After all how can
a huge pile of random events amount to anything
but more noise....right? How can there be any meaning
or truths in a mostly random universe....right?

WRONG!

Understanding boolean nets shows how a totally random or
....disordered system has the inherent property of creating
spontaneous order. It shows, mathematically, how
enough random events essentially...sums to /increasing/ order.
This gives direction to time, the universe and evolution.
From disorder to order over time. Life is..in fact...
mathematically inevitable.

(Pay special attention to the relationships between
static, dynamic and chaotic behaviors. As this forms
the basis of attractor theory)

In essay form
http://www.calresco.org/sos/sosfaq.htm#5.5
http://www.calresco.org/boolean.htm

More detail
http://fias.uni-frankfurt.de/~willadsen/RBN/


Attractor theory

Essay form
http://www.calresco.org/attract.htm
http://www.calresco.org/sos/sosfaq.htm#2.8

Some detail
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attractor



Complexity

My bare explanation.
The complex realm is where /neither/ static or chaotic
behavior dominates, but both and neither at the same time.
As in that narrow temperature range where water is just
about to boil, where it's neither vapor or water, but chaotically
changing from one form to the other. From static to chaotic.
From classical to quantum like motion.

Quantifying Complexity Science.
http://www.calresco.org/lucas/quantify.htm


Complex Adaptive Systems - Webs of Delight

essay form
http://cscs.umich.edu/about/complexity.html
http://www.calresco.org/lucas/cas.htm


Once we can discuss these issues with a common
understanding of some of these concepts, we can
proceed to the next questions wrt China and the
Olympics, as in the properties of simple systems
when disturbed, how and when to disturb them etc.
As when you understand complexity and a CAS
you can then look at just about any system at all
and easily see it's strengths and weaknesses.
And can easily design the optimum type of
disturbance.....so that.....


"24. At the critical point, any size of perturbation can potentially
cause any size of effect -" (hehehe....devious chucke)
http://www.calresco.org/sos/sosfaq.htm


This sensitivity is found ONLY when a large simple system is
at a critical or transition point. At the edge.

ie....China transitioning to....legitimacy...via the Olympics.

It's the brief and rarified air where poets and martyrs rule.

WHERE ONE PERSON CAN CHANGE THE WORLD.


http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/Mexico_1968.htm
"Polls have indicated that their demonstration was the
6th most memorable event of the 20th century"

Or the Chinese version,

http://www.faluninfo.net/gallery/photo.asp?ID=101



Jonathan


s

"Dale Houstman" wrote in message ...


Jonathan wrote:
"kT" wrote in message ...

Jonathan wrote:

The system structure, in the ideal,

There - in that simple passing phrase "in the ideal" is where your
entire argument (slim enough as it is) disappears up its own ass...


Dale, how can we know what path or choices to make if we
DON'T KNOW what the best possible solution is???
You live in the messy real world with all its flaws.
I live in the future and what is possible.

Our reality is a sequence of choices that draw a path
from the present to the future. We need to have a long
term goal or vision of Utopia so that we can make the
decisions needed to draw ..the best path... from the
actual to the ideal.



And - besides - no comparison between the life span of democracy and
authoritarianism/totalitarianism/empire can be useful,


Here you fail to see the power of an interdisciplinary science
which complexity science has mastered. The lessons of
entirely different disciplines can now be applied to any of them.
I don't need numerous examples of dictatorships or
democracies to know their properties. I can look at the
examples in nature of ...complex adaptive systems
which are nearly infinite. From clouds, to emotions to
societies, there is a single mathematics for them ALL.

Which is why I go on and on about complexity science.
We can now learn ALL THE DISCIPLINES by learning
just one. Complexity science serves as the...abstract
starting point for them ALL...whether scientific, philosophical
or artistic. The scientific Walls have fallen between
the arts, sciences and religions.


From the Univ of Michigan

"We consider a system "complex" if it is composed of diverse components
that interact in interesting (nonlinear) ways, for example:"

voters and politicians in an election
consumers and firms in an economy
vehicles in transportation systems
cells and microbes in a body
flora and fauna in an ecosystem
disease, culture and technology spread in a society
information over a social or computer network

"Often, attributes of complex systems models in one field, such
as ecology, have much in common with characteristics of other fields,
such as immunology or economics. As a result, the complex systems
approach is inherently interdisciplinary; insights and results can be
translated across fields."
http://cscs.umich.edu/about/complexity.html





since democracy -
as such - is so young, and dictatorship so old. If one looks at the
world's democracies one sees not the ideal you so vaguely describe but a
continuum that runs from systems you might well consider socialist to
ones that I consider at least proto-fascist. That would be the U.S. And
in fact nations that were considered democracies (with sometimes long
histories of cultural and societal enlightenment) have fallen into
fascism, and it didn't take all that much. Economic disaster for one.
Germany - as one example. You might have heard of it? During the Great
Depression, many nations either did fall or were near to falling into
fascism, or communism. That would include the U.S. where only FDR's
swift co-option of certain socialist goals saved this country from very
likely becoming one of those communist places you so ineptly illustrate.
You place far too much trust in a Disney version of democracy, and -
in doing so - fail to be convincing in most of your arguments. In recent
decades, the Constitution of the U.S. has been under almost continuous
attack from the very government which is meant to secure it, and -
frankly - it is looking a bit more ragged than just its age would
account for.

The result of the Olypmic broadcasts? A few sports stories at the water
cooler, and (now and then) a little discussion about how pretty the
fireworks were. Maybe a steroid scandal - which would entirely bury any
small portion of your predicted "explosion of democratic zeal" under
weeks and maybe months of ethical handwringing.


Or a once in a species turning point from a man-made hell
to a naturally evolving world where humanity spends
eternity swimming in beauty.

I see the collapse of the last great dictatorship as nothing
less than a world returning to nature. At least, that's the
world I want to live in.

And I don't see any reason why human intelligence
can't make that Utopian dream a reality. All we have
to do is learn how to mimic nature...in the abstract.
So we can apply the processes of nature to everything
we do, especially our societal structure.



You're deluded...


Well, maybe, that's what I'm trying to find out by making
predictions. The first tangible goal I've set was for Stephen
Spielberg to quit the Olympics, which he did. I looked at the
key international partners and concluded he was the weak link
many months ago.I was right, so my analysis and timing
of that particular system weakness was correct.

The next is for that resignation to help pressure
the remaining key Olympic corporate sponsors to quit.
Creating, hopefully, a political snowball effect where the
international community votes on CCP legitimacy with
their feet. This is not a pipe-dream as a goal. A few people
could make it happen if they tried hard enough.

But my primary prediction or conclusion is for the
spontaneous end of the CCP in or around the Olympics
as a result of the self fullfilling prophecy. Where the CCP
becomes so convinced some event or disturbance is planned.
And their over reaction to such fears ends up causing
some event that similarly snowballs into their downfall.

We'll see. This is a real world test of these mathematical
concepts. The only kind of test that matters.





dmh

"rst0wxyz" wrote in message ...
On Feb 17, 10:14 am, BradGuth wrote:
On Feb 17, 8:31 am, wrote:

American dirty game

http://www.americanlynching.com/

Dirty games is all that's keeping America glued together.

Tell Jonathan this. He still lives in a dream world.


.....and loving it.


s

On Feb 20, 5:40*pm, "Jonathan" wrote:
"rst0wxyz" wrote in ...

On Feb 17, 10:14 am, BradGuth wrote:

On Feb 17, 8:31 am, wrote:

American dirty game

http://www.americanlynching.com/

Dirty games is all that's keeping America glued together.
Tell Jonathan this. *He still lives in a dream world.

....and loving it.

s

It only took you 3 days to come up with this answer!! slow-wit.