Tu-104LL

While searching for information on the Tu-104LL I found this nifty
little video. It shows cosmonauts training in this flying laboratory
in a variety of test including Leonov's spacewalk, the Soyuz 4 - 5
transfer, and Orlan lunar suit moonwalking and soil collecting.

http://legion.r1a.ru/vid.shtml?img=/...v&alt=ìÅÔÁÀÝÁÑ
ÌÁÂÏÒÁÔÏÒÉÑ ôÕ-104ìì

Best Regards,

David L. Rickman

wrote:
While searching for information on the Tu-104LL I found this nifty
little video. It shows cosmonauts training in this flying laboratory
in a variety of test including Leonov's spacewalk, the Soyuz 4 - 5
transfer, and Orlan lunar suit moonwalking and soil collecting.

http://legion.r1a.ru/vid.shtml?img=/...v&alt=ìÅÔÁÀÝÁÑ
ÌÁÂÏÒÁÔÏÒÉÑ ôÕ-104ìì


The Lunar surface suit was Kretchet, not Orlan:
http://www.astronautix.com/craft/krechet.htm
It pioneered the use of the rear-hatch entry that is still used on
Orlan, which was a evolved derivative of Kretchet.
This does explain one thing very neatly...unlike our Apollo suits, the
LK pilot cosmonaut on the Soviet L3 manned Moon mission was going to
land on the surface solo and needed to get into and out of his spacesuit
all on his own without any help up in the LOK mission module/airlock; so
entry and egress from the suit had to be pretty simple.

Pat

You are correct. Specifically a Krechet-94. But contrary to earlier
misconceptions the Orlan didn't evolve from the Krechet. According to
Abramov and Skoog ("Russian Spacesuits" also co-authored by the late
Guy Severin) they were developed, tested and studied simultaneously to
see which would work best for the lunar surface. Krechet went on to be
developed into the Krechet-94 while Orlan was developed for Orbital
Lunar EVA, and then was chosen to replace the Yastreb as the Almaz EVA
suit. Sadly, neither went on to fulfill their intended use.

David L. Rickman


On Feb 15, 5:47�pm, Pat Flannery wrote:
wrote:
While searching for information on the Tu-104LL I found this nifty
little video. It shows cosmonauts training in this flying laboratory
in a variety of test including Leonov's spacewalk, the Soyuz 4 - 5
transfer, and Orlan lunar suit moonwalking and soil collecting.

http://legion.r1a.ru/vid.shtml?img=/...¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½
����������� �-104��

The Lunar surface suit was Kretchet, not Orlan:http://www.astronautix.com/craft/krechet.htm
It pioneered the use of the rear-hatch entry that is still used on
Orlan, which was a evolved derivative of Kretchet.
This does explain one thing very neatly...unlike our Apollo suits, the
LK pilot cosmonaut on the Soviet L3 manned Moon mission was going to
land on the surface solo and needed to get into and out of his spacesuit
all on his own without any help up in the LOK mission module/airlock; so
entry and egress from the suit had to be pretty simple.

Pat

On Feb 15, 8:03Â*pm, wrote:
You are correct. Specifically a Krechet-94. But contrary to earlier
misconceptions the Orlan didn't evolve from the Krechet. According to
Abramov and Skoog ("Russian Spacesuits" also co-authored by the late
Guy Severin) they were developed, tested and studied simultaneously to
see which would work best for the lunar surface. Krechet went on to be
developed into the Krechet-94 while Orlan was developed for Orbital
Lunar EVA, and then was chosen to replace the Yastreb as the Almaz EVA
suit. Â*Sadly, neither went on to fulfill their intended use.

David L. Rickman

On Feb 15, 5:47�pm, Pat Flannery wrote:



wrote:
While searching for information on the Tu-104LL I found this nifty
little video. It shows cosmonauts training in this flying laboratory
in a variety of test including Leonov's spacewalk, the Soyuz 4 - 5
transfer, and Orlan lunar suit moonwalking and soil collecting.

http://legion.r1a.ru/vid.shtml?img=/...¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½
����������� �-104��

The Lunar surface suit was Kretchet, not Orlan:http://www.astronautix.com/craft/krechet.htm
It pioneered the use of the rear-hatch entry that is still used on
Orlan, which was a evolved derivative of Kretchet.
This does explain one thing very neatly...unlike our Apollo suits, the
LK pilot cosmonaut on the Soviet L3 manned Moon mission was going to
land on the surface solo and needed to get into and out of his spacesuit
all on his own without any help up in the LOK mission module/airlock; so
entry and egress from the suit had to be pretty simple.

Pat- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

That was a great little clip! Got me wondering while watching
"lunar" sampling being shoveled into the container. Sampling
devices, return containers and all sorts of devices that the
cosmonauts were to use on the moon must have been developed (or in the
final stages of developement). We.ve seen little on these tools etc.
Do they in fact exist? Where are they today? Are there any photos or
films of them in existence?.......................Doc

wrote:
You are correct. Specifically a Krechet-94. But contrary to earlier
misconceptions the Orlan didn't evolve from the Krechet. According to
Abramov and Skoog ("Russian Spacesuits" also co-authored by the late
Guy Severin) they were developed, tested and studied simultaneously to
see which would work best for the lunar surface. Krechet went on to be
developed into the Krechet-94 while Orlan was developed for Orbital
Lunar EVA, and then was chosen to replace the Yastreb as the Almaz EVA
suit. Sadly, neither went on to fulfill their intended use.


Was the LK going to carry a Orlan suit as well as the Kretchet? That
seems like a heavy way of doing things in a spacecraft where they wanted
to save as much weight as possible.
Considering how poorly Yastreb worked on Leonov's spacewalk, it's no
wonder they replaced it.
What were the suits used on the Soyuz 4-5 EVA?

Pat

On Feb 16, 8:49�pm, Pat Flannery wrote:
wrote:
You are correct. Specifically a Krechet-94. But contrary to earlier
misconceptions the Orlan didn't evolve from the Krechet. According to
Abramov and Skoog ("Russian Spacesuits" also co-authored by the late
Guy Severin) they were developed, tested and studied simultaneously to
see which would work best for the lunar surface. Krechet went on to be
developed into the Krechet-94 while Orlan was developed for Orbital
Lunar EVA, and then was chosen to replace the Yastreb as the Almaz EVA
suit. �Sadly, neither went on to fulfill their intended use.

Was the LK going to carry a Orlan suit as well as the Kretchet? That
seems like a heavy way of doing things in a spacecraft where they wanted
to save as much weight as possible.
Considering how poorly Yastreb worked on Leonov's spacewalk, it's no
wonder they replaced it.
What were the suits used on the Soyuz 4-5 EVA?

Pat

It was actually the Berkut spacesuit which was worn by Leonov. An
interesting sidenote: The suit was originally specified to be
pressurized to 270 hPa, but it was decided to use it at 400 hPa in
order to reduce the chance of decompression sickness. It could then be
turn down to 270 hPa for short periods if the cosmonaut desired more
flexibility. There was no hydorlab yet and the Tu-104 parabolic
flights only allow zero-G training for short burst.

When Leonov realized that in the actual conditions of space the suit
was less flexible and more difficult to maneuver in (the "ballooning"
of the suit never occurred as has been misreported - the dimensions of
the suit were the same at 400 hPa and 270 hPa), he did what he was
trained to do and reduced the pressure to 270 hPa. His biggest problem
came when he didn't follow his training and entered the airlock head
first instead of feet first, requiring him to turn over inside the
airlock.

Also noteworthy: Belyayev was also wearing a Berkut suit without a
backpack and could have come to Leonov's aide if necessary supported
by an emergency hose connected to the on-board Life Support System.

The Yastreb suit was used in the Soyuz 4 - 5 EVA as part of its
development for the LK-1 and then Almaz missions. It was replaced
later in 1969 by the Olran.

In the early L-3 concept the Orlan and Krechet were both stored in the
Moon Orbiting Spacecraft. When in lunar orbit both cosmonauts would
change into their respective suits. The commander would wear the Orlan
attached to a tether and would watch the back of the
"moonwalker" (wearing the Krechet) from the hatch of the Orbiter, When
the lunar mission was complete both suits would be stowed in the
orbiter before the crew transferred to the descent vehicle for return
to Earth.

Regards,

David L. Rickman

wrote:
When Leonov realized that in the actual conditions of space the suit
was less flexible and more difficult to maneuver in (the "ballooning"
of the suit never occurred as has been misreported - the dimensions of
the suit were the same at 400 hPa and 270 hPa), he did what he was
trained to do and reduced the pressure to 270 hPa. His biggest problem
came when he didn't follow his training and entered the airlock head
first instead of feet first, requiring him to turn over inside the
airlock.


My boo-boo on the suit type.
What about the camera? Did he get that back inside or not? There's
conflicting stories about that.
I made a 1/24th scale model Voskhod with Leonov EVAing:
http://www.starshipmodeler.com/galle...v_voskhod2.jpg
(the top retro module has since been replaced with a more accurate one,
and the two top whip antennas have been removed. Thats from he
http://www.starshipmodeler.com/gallery/pf_sov.htm )
As well as the camera over the airlock exit, there are a pair of stereo
TV cameras mounted on the side of the top retro module (the ones that
they were looking at in mission control as he EVA'd) and possibly
another film camera up there as well. They got film from some film
camera back, as that's the high fidelity film of the spacewalk...the
stereo TV stuff is pretty grainy.

Also noteworthy: Belyayev was also wearing a Berkut suit without a
backpack and could have come to Leonov's aide if necessary supported
by an emergency hose connected to the on-board Life Support System.


We discussed this quite a while back on the newsgroup, and speculated
that the reason they needed the airlock in the first place, rather than
just opening the hatch like on Gemini was that the electronics in the
Voskhod reentry sphere weren't designed to work in vacuum and would
overheat.
We also had a discussion about where the Vizor optical orientation
device was on Voskhod 2, and think it was located on the entry hatch
opposite the airlock hatch, but aren't sure.
Footage from one of the Voskhod flights shows a fairly good-sized window
in the hatch on the airlock side, with what might be a detachable Vizor
stowed below it.

The Yastreb suit was used in the Soyuz 4 - 5 EVA as part of its
development for the LK-1 and then Almaz missions. It was replaced
later in 1969 by the Olran.


What would be the need for a EVA on L-1? It would be difficult to do
without any orbital module, as you'd have to depressurize the Zond/Soyuz
RV.

In the early L-3 concept the Orlan and Krechet were both stored in the
Moon Orbiting Spacecraft. When in lunar orbit both cosmonauts would
change into their respective suits. The commander would wear the Orlan
attached to a tether and would watch the back of the
"moonwalker" (wearing the Krechet) from the hatch of the Orbiter, When
the lunar mission was complete both suits would be stowed in the
orbiter before the crew transferred to the descent vehicle for return
to Earth.


Was the LOK's orbital module to be left in lunar orbit then, to decrease
mass for the TEI?
That would leave the crew in a very cramped situation for the return
home, with no toilet facilities.

Pat

On Feb 17, 3:25�pm, Pat Flannery wrote:
wrote:
When Leonov realized that in the actual conditions of space the suit
was less flexible and more difficult to maneuver in (the "ballooning"
of the suit never occurred as has been misreported - the dimensions of
the suit were the same at 400 hPa and 270 hPa), he did what he was
trained to do and reduced the pressure to 270 hPa. His biggest problem
came when he didn't follow his training and entered the airlock head
first instead of feet first, requiring him to turn over inside the
airlock.

My boo-boo on the suit type.
What about the camera? Did he get that back inside or not? There's
conflicting stories about that.
�I made a 1/24th scale model Voskhod with Leonov EVAing:http://www..starshipmodeler.com/gall...v_voskhod2.jpg
(the top retro module has since been replaced with a more accurate one,
and the two top whip antennas have been removed. Thats from hehttp://www.starshipmodeler.com/gallery/pf_sov.htm�)
As well as the camera over the airlock exit, there are a pair of stereo
TV cameras mounted on the side of the top retro module (the ones that
they were looking at in mission control as he EVA'd) and possibly
another film camera up there as well. They got film from some film
camera back, as that's the high fidelity film of the spacewalk...the
stereo TV stuff is pretty grainy.

Also noteworthy: Belyayev was also wearing a Berkut suit without a
backpack and could have come to Leonov's aide if necessary supported
by an emergency hose connected to the on-board Life Support System.

We discussed this quite a while back on the newsgroup, and speculated
that the reason they needed the airlock in the first place, rather than
just opening the hatch like on Gemini was that the electronics in the
Voskhod reentry sphere weren't designed to work in vacuum and would
overheat.
We also had a discussion about where the Vizor optical orientation
device was on Voskhod 2, and think it was located �on the entry hatch
opposite the airlock hatch, but aren't sure.
Footage from one of the Voskhod flights shows a fairly good-sized window
in the hatch on the airlock side, with what might be a detachable Vizor
stowed below it.

The Yastreb suit was used in the Soyuz 4 - 5 EVA as part of its
development for the LK-1 and then Almaz missions. It was replaced
later in 1969 by the Olran.

What would be the need for a EVA on L-1? �It would be difficult to do
without any orbital module, as you'd have to depressurize the Zond/Soyuz
RV.

In the early L-3 concept the Orlan and Krechet were both stored in the
Moon Orbiting Spacecraft. When in lunar orbit both cosmonauts would
change into their respective suits. The commander would wear the Orlan
attached to a tether and would watch the back of the
"moonwalker" (wearing the Krechet) from the hatch of the Orbiter, When
the lunar mission was complete both suits would be stowed in the
orbiter before the crew transferred to the descent vehicle for return
to Earth.

Was the LOK's orbital module to be left in lunar orbit then, to decrease
mass for the TEI?
That would leave the crew in a very cramped situation for the return
home, with no toilet facilities.

Pat

I posted a scan from "Russian Spacesuits" that shows the sequence for
the L-3. It seems pretty complex to me. No information on the toilets,
but Zvezda also designs them.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2251/...45671f22_o.jpg

According to Abramov and Skoog (although I'm pretty sure from
communications with him that Abramov did most of the writing in
"Russian Spacesuits), there was only nine months from the signing of
the specification requirements for the suit and airlock to the actual
spacewalk. That was pretty quick work! All that in the book is that
the Voskhod was not designed to be depressurized for "lengthy
operations" and that they were told to make this happen with as few
design changes as possible.

There is a video of Leonov and Voskhod 2 posted recently by Ivan
Safranov, but it's kind of disorienting ... it's upside-down. It gives
you a real feel of space :-) !

http://www.spacevideo.ru/toc/history/vskh-2.avi

There seems to be shots from each transmitting camera, plus a clip
from the externally mounted camera. Abramov states that Leonov was not
able to reach the cord of the camera arranged of his spacesuit, but he
speculates that this could have been the result of "previously unknown
conditions of free space and weightlessness, which could not be tested
on the ground." Too bad, that would have given us some sweet shots on
the Voskhod in space.

Abramov also says that Leonov dismantled the movie camera installed on
the airlock, "but reported that it was difficult for him to enter the
hatch holding the camera with one hand." I'm guessing that had he
entered the hatch feet-first it might have been easier.

Cool models! I actually got started with this whole fascination with
the Russian space program from getting Revells Vostok model when I was
young. I've got about a bazillion photos of the LK and was going to
build one in 1/24th scale. Somewhere along the line I got sidetracked
by the Chelomei designs and have come to studying them full time. I'm
currently working on a "The Almaz 11F74 Technical Specifications and
History" book and will ultimately build a 1/24th scale model of it,
complete from the LES at the top to the LSS at the bottom. I've also
thought that a 1/24th scale model rocket of the VA being lifted by the
LES would be pretty cool.


Best Regards,

David L. Rickman

wrote:
I posted a scan from "Russian Spacesuits" that shows the sequence for
the L-3. It seems pretty complex to me. No information on the toilets,
but Zvezda also designs them.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2251/...45671f22_o.jpg


That's a interesting new drawing; the LOK orbital module uses the
original cylindrical shape, as was planned for the lunar-loop mission
with the docked orbital rocket module that was to be fueled in Earth orbit.
This looks to be a extrapolation of that technology, but I'd hate to see
how many Soyuz booster rocket launchings it would take to send a Soyuz
and LK on their way toward the Moon, and brake it into lunar orbit.
I've read about using the Lunokhod to move the cosmonaut around, but
that's the first time I've seen how he's attached to it.

According to Abramov and Skoog (although I'm pretty sure from
communications with him that Abramov did most of the writing in
"Russian Spacesuits), there was only nine months from the signing of
the specification requirements for the suit and airlock to the actual
spacewalk. That was pretty quick work! All that in the book is that
the Voskhod was not designed to be depressurized for "lengthy
operations" and that they were told to make this happen with as few
design changes as possible.


Did you ever read about the airlock that accidentally jettisoned during
ground tests of one of the Voskhod prototypes and was destroyed by the
fall? There was a government investigation of how this happened and
realizing that they could be in a lot of trouble, the program managers
blamed it in on CIA saboteurs...the KGB bought this explanation, but I'd
hate to think of some of the ramifications that could have had if they
had tried to get even with us over the incident.

There is a video of Leonov and Voskhod 2 posted recently by Ivan
Safranov, but it's kind of disorienting ... it's upside-down. It gives
you a real feel of space :-) !

http://www.spacevideo.ru/toc/history/vskh-2.avi

There seems to be shots from each transmitting camera, plus a clip
from the externally mounted camera. Abramov states that Leonov was not
able to reach the cord of the camera arranged of his spacesuit, but he
speculates that this could have been the result of "previously unknown
conditions of free space and weightlessness, which could not be tested
on the ground." Too bad, that would have given us some sweet shots on
the Voskhod in space.


Considering how mysterious they were about revealing the design of the
spacecraft (or Vostok for that matter) I doubt they would have shown
those films anytime soon after the flight.

Abramov also says that Leonov dismantled the movie camera installed on
the airlock, "but reported that it was difficult for him to enter the
hatch holding the camera with one hand." I'm guessing that had he
entered the hatch feet-first it might have been easier.

Cool models! I actually got started with this whole fascination with
the Russian space program from getting Revells Vostok model when I was
young. I've got about a bazillion photos of the LK and was going to
build one in 1/24th scale.

It's a very neat piece of equipment, that's for sure.

Somewhere along the line I got sidetracked
by the Chelomei designs and have come to studying them full time. I'm
currently working on a "The Almaz 11F74 Technical Specifications and
History" book and will ultimately build a 1/24th scale model of it,
complete from the LES at the top to the LSS at the bottom. I've also
thought that a 1/24th scale model rocket of the VA being lifted by the
LES would be pretty cool.


I still remember the first time everyone got a look at the VA and
started asking "now where the hell did that thing come from?"
I've got a 1/144 scale N-1; and always was tempted to build a UR-700 to
go next to it.
This is my big model spaceship:
http://www.starshipmodeler.com/gallery/pf_disc.htm

Pat

On Feb 17, 7:07�pm, Pat Flannery wrote:

I've got a 1/144 scale N-1; and always was tempted to build a UR-700 to
go next to it.


Pat

I might be able to help you with that.

Best Regards,

David L. Rickman