CHANDRAYAAN = ? Photoshop + cut and paste ?

On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 00:59:26 GMT, in a place far, far away, "Painius"
made the phosphor on my monitor glow in
such a way as to indicate that:

"Rand Simberg" wrote in message

No one is asking you to "behave negatively." We're asking you to not
encourage a very unfortunate man who is clearly mentally ill, and is
not getting treatment, to continue posting, and to just ignore him, as
most here have for years. We don't want to read the output of
whatever his ongoing problem is, and have correspondingly killfiled
him. When you reply to him, you are feeding a troll, and our only
recourse is to killfile you as well, if we don't want to see his
verbal diarrhea.


I'll miss you.

That seems unlikely, since you barely know me.

I won't miss you.

*plonk*

On Nov 12, 3:49 pm, Jim Newman wrote:
BradGuth wrote:
On Nov 12, 9:49 am, Jim Newman wrote:
BradGuth wrote:

The photograph in question was taken from near Earth orbit - 311,200km
from the moon. The equipment used to take the photograph is /designed/
to be used at a distance of about 100km. When in normal use, the
resolution will be 3000x better because the camera will be 3000x nearer.
In other words, you're saying it's out of focus. Sure, why the hell
not.
Sigh
Get your digital camera.
Set focus to infinity.
Take a photo of the moon.
Crop to include just the Moon.
Resize the crop so the moon diameter is about 700 pixels.

Learn the difference between 'focus' and 'resolution'

I'd use PhotoZoom, or something like that, but why bother to PhotoShop
anything, especially when a give-away cell phone camera and a Walmart
telescope can take as good if not better picture from Earth.

You're saying their TMC doesn't have a telephoto lens or enough
pixels?

Of course it bloody doesn't - if it was designed for use at 311,200km it
would be useless at 100km and (as you have seen) vice versa.

So, they get their 5 meter/pixel resolution at 100 km, and 15 km/pixel
at 300,000 km without use of optics or mirrors for accomplishing their
telephoto like imaging, and they have fewer combined image pixels than
my cell phone camera.

Why would their 15 km/pixel be so foggy/fuzzy looking, and otherwise
of such ****-poor DR?

Some how I don't believe distance from target is what creates such a
degraded image quality.

http://www.isro.org/chandrayaan/htmls/tmc.htm

http://www.chandrayaan-i.com/chandra...loads/tmc.html

~ BG

On Nov 12, 4:59 pm, "Painius" wrote:
"Rand Simberg" wrote in message

...



On Wed, 12 Nov 2008 20:46:42 GMT, in a place far, far away, "Painius"
made the phosphor on my monitor glow in
such a way as to indicate that:

"OM" wrote in message
. ..
On Wed, 12 Nov 2008 06:37:54 GMT, "Painius"
wrote:

Sorry, but i see Brad get picked on a lot. And frankly,
he does bring much of it on himself.

...And deservedly so. He's obviously in need of a very long
incarceration in a rubber room at the local funny farm. Until that
happens, anytime anyone responds to the retarded ******* for any
reason whatsoever, you're wasting bandwidth.

You seem to be intelligent. Why is it so difficult for you to grasp
that responding to a loon is *not*?

Thank you, OM, you "mantra", you! g Well, maybe
things aren't always as they seem, or maybe Brad can
often appeal to my "cutting-edge" physics/astronomy
mindset. Whatever the reason, i rarely find any cause
for behaving too negatively in a global communications
medium. Improve relations, make the world a better
place, all that stuff.

No one is asking you to "behave negatively." We're asking you to not
encourage a very unfortunate man who is clearly mentally ill, and is
not getting treatment, to continue posting, and to just ignore him, as
most here have for years. We don't want to read the output of
whatever his ongoing problem is, and have correspondingly killfiled
him. When you reply to him, you are feeding a troll, and our only
recourse is to killfile you as well, if we don't want to see his
verbal diarrhea.

I'll miss you. Which is precisely why i don't killfile
you *or* Brad. Don't wanna miss anything just
because i was afraid to use my mouse to click
"Mark as Unread".

Let me know how life is in the slow lane! And don't
let the door hitcha in the ass on your way out!

Rand Simberg is going to burn your bridge for giving anything I have
to say a reply. I believe it's a DARPA policy that's fully Zionist/
Nazi supported, so watch your backside.

~ BG

OM wrote:
On Wed, 12 Nov 2008 23:52:28 +0000, Jim Newman wrote:


OM wrote:

On Wed, 12 Nov 2008 17:49:16 +0000, Jim Newman wrote:


Learn the difference between 'focus' and 'resolution'

...How about you learning NOT to feed ****ing trolls like Brad Guth?

Would you like me to show you how to ignore a thread? It's quite easily
done.


PLONK

...You know, there's going to be a lot of n00bs playing "pick up the
soap" in the showers of Killfile Hell this evening.


Explain to me again why my 6 posts to this thread is more of a
transgression than your 9 posts to this thread.

NB this is a rhetorical statement - I don't really care; if you can't
ignore a thread you need to find a better hobby than usenet.
:-)

On Nov 12, 6:28 am, BradGuth wrote:
On Nov 10, 10:37 pm, BradGuth wrote:

What gives? (why the delay?)

Is our DARPA and NASA telling India/ISRO what they can or can't do?

Is our Selene/moon still nondisclosure rated?

Why not allow India/ISRO to share raw/unaltered science data from all
11 instruments, including those original full digital frames of raw
(monochrome and color) images?

~ Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth BG / “Guth Usenet”

Why the delay or nondisclosure policy? (NASA damage control?)

Because we’ve been specifically informed by ISRO, we know that at
least some if not most of the 11 science instruments had been turned
on for quite some time (since having left LEO), and their having sent
back valid data, including radiation status and otherwise images from
their high resolution cameras (most likely hundreds if not thousands
of images by now). So why the media delay or need-to-know policy?

Either they have accomplished such science and having received valid
data and many observationology worthy images via Chandrayaan-1, or
they don’t. There’s no need of such information being studied or much
less modified before release to the general public that’s paying for
everything.

For example; What was their go-between space environment, especially
while within the Earth-Moon L1?

What sorts of spectrum bandpass or cutoff filters are currently being
used on behalf of their monochrome terrain mapping camera? (in other
words; we’ll need to know the optic or bandpass specs of each image)

What is the A/D limited dynamic range of either monochrome or color
camera?

What is each of their CCD’s raw dynamic range and spectrum bandwidth
or scope?

In other words, why not impress us by way of ISRO telling or otherwise
sharing in exactly what we’re getting for our hard earned public loot?

On Nov 12, 2:44 am, (Andrew Robert Breen) wrote:



In article ,

Mike Dworetsky wrote:

See what it says about this on that page. As the satellite has not yet
reached its final orbit, it may not be switched on yet. Certainly, a period
of a few days or weeks is normally needed for engineering checks on the
instruments.

The word I'm getting (from one of the instrument PIs, just down the
corridor) is that it's about 10 days until the science instruments start
taking data. There'll be a period of calibration following that, of
course, but the data should be coming in from then.

--
Andy Breen Not speaking on behalf of the University of Wales, Aberystwyth

Thank you for that informative feedback. However, what's to calibrate
about a camera, other than selecting the best image out of hundreds or
thousands that are using whatever optical filtering or bandpass
configuration for achieving their best affect?

In other words, why select the worse possible image or much less
intentionally degrade a given image?

http://www.isro.org/pslv-c11/photos/...n/Moon_Enh.jpg

That initial moon image released to the public looks as though they
were using a special affects fog inducing filter. The other image of
Earth by that same terrain camera was crystal clear (or was that one
of Earth via their color camera with all of the color/hue saturation
excluded), but was there some kind of lens protective but yet optical
plate or cap that had not been opened up for the look-see at our moon?

BTW, is their color camera broken or also in need of "calibration"?

Besides the following links; can we get a full disclosure listing of
these optical filters and their plan of action for using them
individually or as stacked elements?

http://www.isro.org/chandrayaan/htmls/hysi.htm
http://www.chandrayaan-i.com/chandra...oads/hysi.html

It sounds like each and every “Hyper Spectral Imaging” obtained image
can be as color/hue saturated as it ever needs to be, especially
effective within their extended sensor dynamic range that’s apparently
a mystery even to ISRO. Other than a basic grayscale 8 bit
calibration, and thus limited to 8 bits per color wavelength, whereas
you might think they’d use at least 12 bit A/D, although as great as
16 bit should have been doable. However 8*64 contiguous bands = 512
bits worth of full spectral image data per composite image is
certainly a lot of color/hue saturation data to work with.

It’ll be interesting as to see how much excluding of the blue to
violet spectrums get moderated or entirely taken out of those images
before getting released to the public domain. As a matter of purely
scientific interest, I’d like to see all 64 hue/spectral bands as is
per given image. In other words, 64 frames of 8 bits each per image
will do nicely.

The terrain mapping camera with 10 bit usage of it’s APS dynamic range
is certainly good enough depending on what sort of optical bandpass
filters get utilized.

http://www.isro.org/chandrayaan/htmls/tmc.htm
The “spectral region of 0.5 to 0.85 µm” certainly excludes the bluish
hue saturation or mineral fluorescence created by all of the UV
secondary/recoil (black light) affect coming off that reactive lunar
surface.

~ Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth BG / “Guth Usenet”

TMC at 11.5 degree FOV is actually creating a large format telephoto
image result of 5 m/pixel, and without the extra bluish saturation
caused by the raw UV secondary/recoil that’s otherwise technically
unavoidable, is what makes the TMC so well suited with it’s restricted
spectral bandwidth that essentially cuts off or excludes everything
below 500 nm, is going to greatly improve the image and subsequent 3D
mapping quality. It’s like a conventional large-format B&W/monochrome
camera outfitted with a 500~850 bandpass optical filter that’ll get
rid of all that pesky bluish, purple and violet saturation caused by
the raw solar influx that includes a great deal of UV.

HySI mineralogical mapping.
Though limited at 8 bit dynamic range per spectral band, the 64 band
composite image is going to be impressive, even at 80 m/pixel
resolution and regardless of how physically dark the Selene/moon
actually is. The desired composite color/hue saturated image is then
going select or exclude whatever 8 bit bands of spectral information
necessary on order to deliver the complex mineralogical mapping data,
and otherwise tailored to provide the most true to life color
rendition that Selene represents.

~ BG

On Nov 12, 3:17 pm, OM wrote:
On Wed, 12 Nov 2008 20:46:42 GMT, "Painius"
wrote:

Whatever the reason, i rarely find any cause
for behaving too negatively in a global communications
medium. Improve relations, make the world a better
place, all that stuff.

...The absolute, only way the world could be a better place where
Guthball is concerned if he were banned from Usenet for life. All
replying to him will get you is sentenced to Killfile Hell with Guth
and the rest of his ilk.

PLONK

...I tried, kids. I really tried.

OM

I am a lose cannon and button pushing kind of guy, along with a little
dyslexic encryption to boot. Sorry about that.

By rights, there should never be anything fuzzy, out-of-focus or
deficient looking about these images.

TMC at 11.5 degree FOV is actually creating a large format telephoto
image result of 5 m/pixel, and without the extra bluish saturation
caused by the raw UV secondary/recoil that’s otherwise technically
unavoidable, is what makes the TMC so well suited with it’s restricted
spectral bandwidth that essentially cuts off or excludes everything
below 500 nm, is going to greatly improve the image and subsequent 3D
mapping quality. It’s like a conventional large-format B&W/monochrome
camera outfitted with a 500~850 bandpass optical filter that’ll get
rid of all that pesky bluish, purple and violet saturation caused by
the raw solar influx that includes a great deal of UV.

HySI mineralogical mapping.
Though limited at 8 bit dynamic range per spectral band, the 64 band
composite image is going to be impressive, even at 80 m/pixel
resolution and regardless of how physically dark the Selene/moon
actually is. The desired composite color/hue saturated image is then
going select or exclude whatever 8 bit bands of spectral information
necessary on order to deliver the complex mineralogical mapping data,
and otherwise tailored to provide the most true to life color
rendition that Selene represents.

~ BG

On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 10:33:02 +0000, in a place far, far away, Jim
Newman made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such a
way as to indicate that:

...How about you learning NOT to feed ****ing trolls like Brad Guth?

Would you like me to show you how to ignore a thread? It's quite easily
done.


PLONK

...You know, there's going to be a lot of n00bs playing "pick up the
soap" in the showers of Killfile Hell this evening.


Explain to me again why my 6 posts to this thread is more of a
transgression than your 9 posts to this thread.

Your posts are responses to Guth, whose posts we don't want to see,
but you show them to us anyway.

On Nov 13, 2:33 am, Jim Newman wrote:
OM wrote:
On Wed, 12 Nov 2008 23:52:28 +0000, Jim Newman wrote:

OM wrote:

On Wed, 12 Nov 2008 17:49:16 +0000, Jim Newman wrote:

Learn the difference between 'focus' and 'resolution'

...How about you learning NOT to feed ****ing trolls like Brad Guth?

Would you like me to show you how to ignore a thread? It's quite easily
done.

PLONK

...You know, there's going to be a lot of n00bs playing "pick up the
soap" in the showers of Killfile Hell this evening.

Explain to me again why my 6 posts to this thread is more of a
transgression than your 9 posts to this thread.

NB this is a rhetorical statement - I don't really care; if you can't
ignore a thread you need to find a better hobby than usenet.
:-)

Rand Simberg is a devout Zionist/Nazi of the pretend-Atheists kind.
As such he and others of their brown-nosed kind do not have to go by
any topic/author standard that you or I might care to impose.

If their Hitler were still in charge, they'd all be happy little
Zionist/Nazi campers. Now that their resident LLPOF warlord(GW Bush)
is on his way out, they is screwed. Now that India is taking over our
Selene/moon is why our DARPA and their puppet NASA is screwed.

~ BG

On Nov 12, 6:28 am, BradGuth wrote:
On Nov 10, 10:37 pm, BradGuth wrote:

What gives? (why the delay?)

Is our DARPA and NASA telling India/ISRO what they can or can't do?

Is our Selene/moon still nondisclosure rated?

Why not allow India/ISRO to share raw/unaltered science data from all
11 instruments, including those original full digital frames of raw
(monochrome and color) images?

~ Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth BG / “Guth Usenet”

Why the delay or nondisclosure policy? (NASA damage control?)

Because we’ve been specifically informed by ISRO, we know that at
least some if not most of the 11 science instruments had been turned
on for quite some time (since having left LEO), and their having sent
back valid data, including radiation status and otherwise images from
their high resolution cameras (most likely hundreds if not thousands
of images by now). So why the media delay or need-to-know policy?

Either they have accomplished such science and having received valid
data and many observationology worthy images via Chandrayaan-1, or
they don’t. There’s no need of such information being studied or much
less modified before release to the general public that’s paying for
everything.

For example; What was their go-between space environment, especially
while within the Earth-Moon L1?

What sorts of spectrum bandpass or cutoff filters are currently being
used on behalf of their monochrome terrain mapping camera? (in other
words; we’ll need to know the optic or bandpass specs of each image)

What is the A/D limited dynamic range of either monochrome or color
camera?

What is each of their CCD’s raw dynamic range and spectrum bandwidth
or scope?

In other words, why not impress us by way of ISRO telling or otherwise
sharing in exactly what we’re getting for our hard earned public loot?

On Nov 12, 2:44 am, (Andrew Robert Breen) wrote:



In article ,

Mike Dworetsky wrote:

See what it says about this on that page. As the satellite has not yet
reached its final orbit, it may not be switched on yet. Certainly, a period
of a few days or weeks is normally needed for engineering checks on the
instruments.

The word I'm getting (from one of the instrument PIs, just down the
corridor) is that it's about 10 days until the science instruments start
taking data. There'll be a period of calibration following that, of
course, but the data should be coming in from then.

--
Andy Breen Not speaking on behalf of the University of Wales, Aberystwyth

Thank you for that informative feedback. However, what's to calibrate
about a camera, other than selecting the best image out of hundreds or
thousands that are using whatever optical filtering or bandpass
configuration for achieving their best affect?

In other words, why select the worse possible image or much less
intentionally degrade a given image?

http://www.isro.org/pslv-c11/photos/...n/Moon_Enh.jpg

That initial moon image released to the public looks as though they
were using a special affects fog inducing filter. The other image of
Earth by that same terrain camera was crystal clear (or was that one
of Earth via their color camera with all of the color/hue saturation
excluded), but was there some kind of lens protective but yet optical
plate or cap that had not been opened up for the look-see at our moon?

BTW, is their color camera broken or also in need of "calibration"?

Besides the following links; can we get a full disclosure listing of
these optical filters and their plan of action for using them
individually or as stacked elements?

http://www.isro.org/chandrayaan/htmls/hysi.htm
http://www.chandrayaan-i.com/chandra...oads/hysi.html

It sounds like each and every “Hyper Spectral Imaging” obtained image
can be as color/hue saturated as it ever needs to be, especially
effective within their extended sensor dynamic range that’s apparently
a mystery even to ISRO. Other than a basic grayscale 8 bit
calibration, and thus limited to 8 bits per color wavelength, whereas
you might think they’d use at least 12 bit A/D, although as great as
16 bit should have been doable. However 8*64 contiguous bands = 512
bits worth of full spectral image data per composite image is
certainly a lot of color/hue saturation data to work with.

It’ll be interesting as to see how much excluding of the blue to
violet spectrums get moderated or entirely taken out of those images
before getting released to the public domain. As a matter of purely
scientific interest, I’d like to see all 64 hue/spectral bands as is
per given image. In other words, 64 frames of 8 bits each per image
will do nicely.

The terrain mapping camera with 10 bit usage of it’s APS dynamic range
is certainly good enough depending on what sort of optical bandpass
filters get utilized.

http://www.isro.org/chandrayaan/htmls/tmc.htm
The “spectral region of 0.5 to 0.85 µm” certainly excludes the bluish
hue saturation or mineral fluorescence created by all of the UV
secondary/recoil (black light) affect coming off that reactive lunar
surface.

~ Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth BG / “Guth Usenet”

By rights, there should never be anything fuzzy, out-of-focus or
otherwise deficient looking about any of these images.

TMC at 11.5 degree FOV is actually creating a large format telephoto
image result of 5 m/pixel, and without the extra bluish saturation
caused by the raw UV secondary/recoil that’s otherwise technically
unavoidable, is what makes the TMC so well suited with it’s restricted
spectral bandwidth that essentially cuts off or excludes everything
below 500 nm, is going to greatly improve the image and subsequent 3D
mapping quality. It’s like a conventional large-format B&W/monochrome
camera outfitted with a 500~850 bandpass optical filter that’ll get
rid of all that pesky bluish, purple and violet saturation caused by
the raw solar influx that includes a great deal of UV.

HySI mineralogical mapping.
Though limited at 8 bit dynamic range per spectral band, the 64 band
composite image is going to be impressive, even at 80 m/pixel
resolution and regardless of how physically dark the Selene/moon
actually is. The desired composite color/hue saturated image is then
going select or exclude whatever 8 bit bands of spectral information
necessary on order to deliver the complex mineralogical mapping data,
and otherwise tailored to provide the most true to life color
rendition that Selene represents.

~ BG

"BradGuth" wrote in message
...
On Nov 12, 5:01 pm, "Painius" wrote:
"OM" wrote in message

...



On Wed, 12 Nov 2008 21:02:25 GMT, (Rand
Simberg) wrote:

When you reply to him, you are feeding a troll, and our only
recourse is to killfile you as well, if we don't want to see his
verbal diarrhea.

...The sheer irony is that Rand replied with more than two sentences,
and it probably had about as much effect as my initial attempt to get
this guy to stop feeding Guthball his troll treats.

OM

--

]=====================================[
] OMBlog -http://www.io.com/~o_m/omworld [
] Let's face it: Sometimes you *need* [
] an obnoxious opinion in your day! [
]=====================================[

If you'd plonked me, then how would you know?

Tch-tch, guess i wasn't much of a log, huh.

Fibber! g

Interesting how OM and Rand Simberg need to topic/author stalk and
killfile so much. They also have to use clipping services that only
feed NASA approved context, as everything else gets blocked or
rejected. We don't necessarily understand because it's a genetic
Zionist/Nazi thing, similar to Muslims having WMD.

~ BG


Since those fine specimens of wussiedom don't post
regularly to alt.astronomy, i'm hardly moved. They're
"plonking", however superficial, therefore means very
little. Personally, i think they *like* having high blood
pressure. g

happy days and...
starry starry nights!

--
Indelibly yours,
Paine Ellsworth

P.S.: "Be ashamed to die until you have won some
victory for humanity."
Horace Mann

P.P.S.: http://yummycake.secretsgolden.com
http://garden-of-ebooks.blogspot.com
http://painellsworth.net