Problems with getting to Mars

"jacob navia" wrote in message ...
If you contaminate the planet you will never be sure
which bacteria are earth bacteria and which are
marsians unless they are radically different.

Luckily, the overwhelming likelihood is that they will be
radically different. Secondarily, Martian microbes will
be suited to the extant Martian ecological niches whereas
newly arrived Earth microbes will not be. Meaning that
the population of indigenous Martian bugs should vastly
exceed that of foreigners for a long time to come.

"jacob navia" wrote in message ...
----- Original Message -----
From: "jjustwwondering"
Newsgroups: sci.space.policy
Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2004 1:24 AM
Subject: Problems with getting to Mars
"jacob navia" wrote in message
news:c4gj2t$8f9$1@news- The discovery of a second data point will
increase
enormously our knowledge.

Yes - this is a good reason to go out in force - probes, robots
and researchers - to search for it, and if found, to research
it.


If you contaminate the planet you will never be sure
which bacteria are earth bacteria and which are
marsians unless they are radically different.

This problem is much more difficult on Earth than on Mars,
where long separate development (even assuming commnon
origin) would guarantee the radical difference.

Yet even on Earth, new life forms are successfully discovered
and studied in isolated environments - from salt lakes to
oil wells to rocks miles deep under the surface -
all the time. There is the same contamination problem
to deal with - only much worse than on Mars.

Methods and techniques of handling this problem already exist.
These methods somehow do not include what you suggested
for Mars, namely "keeping sapient beings absent"
from the whole planet!

Besides, we must ensure that those bacteria
(specially if similar to their earth counterparts)
would not break havoc in OUR ecosystem!

If they exist, some of them must be brought here
occasionally via meteorites and space dust.
Probably they all perish in the alien environment;
in the unlikely case that any survive and proliferate,
they must already be a part of our ecosystem...

Before taking *any*
probe from a foreign planet here we must
KNOW that it is harmless.

By the same logic, before obtaining and examining plague
bacteria or ebola viruses, any lab would first make sure
that they *are harmless*. Unfortunately, they aren't -
and that is an extra reason to examine them.

From any *terrestrial* environment that we study,
unknown microscopic creatures may emerge
to bug us or our crops.

In this respect, Mars is, *in principle*, no
different from rainforests or the ocean floor - *except*
that any putative Martian life must be (1) far
less abundant, and (2) vastly more alien, than
either in rainforests or on the ocean floor.

For both these reasons, the biological danger in
studying Mars must be considered microscopic (pun accidental)
compared to the biological danger in studying the Earth.
Since we do the latter, we should also do the former.

"G EddieA95" wrote ...

It's not the only possibility though - but given the 'God Fearing Nation'
bit it's probably the only one that Bush would approve of other than
celibacy / hypocrisy.

If our country can't get a crew that can do without sexual pleasure for the
duration of a Mars mission, then the Chinese *should* inherit the cosmos.

That was there as an option in my post. I'd like to think that those planning
manned Mars missions will be able to take a rather more objective look at the
whole set of possibilities.

The last thing an interplanetary flight needs is concerns about pregnancy or
contraception,

Nice job of snipping.
Talking about which, a 'snip' would be one of the obvious options to avoid
concerns about pregnancy.

or other sexual issues.

On Thu, 1 Apr 2004 21:44:39 +0200, "jacob navia"
wrote:


Yes, and that has to be tested, for several years in
earth orbit. How do those tanks do in vacuum? .... That is why I think it will take like 30-40 years.


We didn't need 30-40 years to land on the Moon -- we did it in eight.

We don't need 30-40 years to get ready for a Mars mission. 20 more
like it, and only because we're talking about doing a Moon base first.

..... 2050-2060 vintage
technology will offer you such an environment.

How do you know? Do you know what technologies will and won't be
prevalant in the year 2050? No, you don't anymore than someone living
in 1950 was right about what we'd have in 2000. Some came true, a lot
did not, and by and large the world was tweaked.


But a lot of work needs to be done first.


I'll agree to that. That's why it is important to do research on the
station and do a Moon base first.

But I do not think it will tale 60 years unless we go out of our way
to go at a snail's pace.






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"jacob navia" wrote in message ...
"Karl Hallowell" a écrit dans le message de
om...

snip

So
what is the real bee in your bonnet? That sounds like the really
interesting thing here.


We should try to preserve any life we find in space.
Because of ethical reasons, and because of scientific
reasons.

Human exploration is risky because it could
mean a contact with an alien form of life. Until we know
for sure what is going on, we should always send machines
first.

Methane has been found some days ago. There are more
and more hints of a small but existent ecology, probably
completely underground, and with an alien biochemistry.

As I suspected, this is more interesting. Frankly, I have no problems
with careful exploration of possible life. There is an obvious
conflict here with human habitation since Mars does look pretty good
(IMHO of course) for humanity down the road. Even if life is
discovered, human habitation will probably win.

I don't know how risky (for us and for them) contact with
extraterrestrial life will turn out to be. But Mars will be a good
trial case.


Karl Hallowell