... OIL has Doubled in One Year! $120 bbl While NASA Dreams of Moon Rocks!

On May 6, 9:17 pm, "jonathan" wrote:
I'M MAD AS HELL......

It's just insane. Oil was as low as $8 a barrel under Pres Clinton.
It increased by $60 a barrel just in the /last year/.

Let's just extrapolate that price increase out a few years, to...say...about the
time NASA gets to kick around a few more Moon Rocks in the year 2025
give or take ten?

I wonder how history will remember this time, when we had a choice between a
New Moon Base, or the Space Solar Power (SSP) program axed by President
Bush upon taking office.

This is what history will say I believe.

Everyone will be looking at our new shiny moon base much like we see
the ISS now. Doing /nothing/ except consume every available dollar just
to keep the thing flying. And they'll say it's clear the choice for the moon
over SSP was a result of two things.

The military: seeking the 'high ground' in the missile defense race.

Corruption: the big contractors preferring another "Bridge to Nowhere"
As they can promise NOTHING in return for the mega-bucks.
They haven't promised to cure anything, fix anything
or create anything beneficial to the taxpayers except
for the 'thing' itself Another ISS, existing only for the
sake of it. "Have Faith" The NASA administrator says...

There can be no other conclusion, that amidst a new global consensus
and awakening on the rapidly warming earth, we abandoned a visionary
long-term program, Space Solar Power, that could revolutionize
the future of this planet. A program that could not only address the
rapidly diminishing oil reserves, but also tackle greenhouse gasses
and global warming.

A single program, Space Solar Power, that could directly effect two of
greatest global threats. Not to mention all that flows from these
two threats, such as wars over oil, economic growth and national
security.

This was the program timeline when Bush canceled SSP

Space Solar Power Exploratory Research and Technology program (SERT)

a.. 2005: ~100 kW, Free-flyer, demo-scale commercial space
b.. 2010: ~100 kW Planetary Surface System, demo-scale, space exploration
c.. 2015: ~10 MW Free-flyer, Transportation; Large demo, solar clipper
d.. 2020: 1 GW Free-flyer, Full-scale solar power satellite commercial spacehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Solar_Power_Exploratory_Research_a...

By the time we build that shiny now Moon Base, The United States
...could've been building gigawatt class power satellites...we
...could have been on the threshold of becoming the next energy "Saudi Arabia".

Where ...America is the primary source of energy for the world.

But no, the military needs a new observation post, to target the Chinese.

Are we living in an era of denial, insanity or stupidity?

I can't think of any other reason for the choice we're making
to go back to the moon instead of using NASA not just to study
the atmosphere, but to be the agency responsible for ...improving it
as well.

Hey, you NASA guys want larger budgets??? SSP is the path to
long term public and Congressional support.

A Moon Base is a recipe for a much smaller-leaner NASA.
Stripped to the bones by a public angry that NASA's
..lack of foresight is exceeded only by it's
..lack of backbone.

Jonathan

s

Don't you post under some other names?
http://www.celebrityhack.com/images/...-hairspray.jpg

eyeball wrote:
On May 6, 9:17 pm, "jonathan" wrote:
I'M MAD AS HELL......

It's just insane. Oil was as low as $8 a barrel under Pres Clinton.
It increased by $60 a barrel just in the /last year/.


That's how long since the "New sheriff Pelosi got to town" Remember her
telling us that she was going to ride herd on Bush and that Pelosi would
get gas prices down.....


It looks like Democrats couldn't live up to the promise.

Where the hell have you been for the past 60 years? Try that fossil
fuel inflation at 3200%

BTW, the moon's L1 is quite doable. Even China can set up camp within
the moon's L1. Would you care to explore my LSE-CM/ISS?
.. - Brad Guth


jonathan wrote:
I'M MAD AS HELL......

It's just insane. Oil was as low as $8 a barrel under Pres Clinton.
It increased by $60 a barrel just in the /last year/.

Let's just extrapolate that price increase out a few years, to...say...about the
time NASA gets to kick around a few more Moon Rocks in the year 2025
give or take ten?

I wonder how history will remember this time, when we had a choice between a
New Moon Base, or the Space Solar Power (SSP) program axed by President
Bush upon taking office.

This is what history will say I believe.

Everyone will be looking at our new shiny moon base much like we see
the ISS now. Doing /nothing/ except consume every available dollar just
to keep the thing flying. And they'll say it's clear the choice for the moon
over SSP was a result of two things.

The military: seeking the 'high ground' in the missile defense race.

Corruption: the big contractors preferring another "Bridge to Nowhere"
As they can promise NOTHING in return for the mega-bucks.
They haven't promised to cure anything, fix anything
or create anything beneficial to the taxpayers except
for the 'thing' itself Another ISS, existing only for the
sake of it. "Have Faith" The NASA administrator says...


There can be no other conclusion, that amidst a new global consensus
and awakening on the rapidly warming earth, we abandoned a visionary
long-term program, Space Solar Power, that could revolutionize
the future of this planet. A program that could not only address the
rapidly diminishing oil reserves, but also tackle greenhouse gasses
and global warming.

A single program, Space Solar Power, that could directly effect two of
greatest global threats. Not to mention all that flows from these
two threats, such as wars over oil, economic growth and national
security.

This was the program timeline when Bush canceled SSP

Space Solar Power Exploratory Research and Technology program (SERT)

a.. 2005: ~100 kW, Free-flyer, demo-scale commercial space
b.. 2010: ~100 kW Planetary Surface System, demo-scale, space exploration
c.. 2015: ~10 MW Free-flyer, Transportation; Large demo, solar clipper
d.. 2020: 1 GW Free-flyer, Full-scale solar power satellite commercial space
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_S...l ogy_program


By the time we build that shiny now Moon Base, The United States
...could've been building gigawatt class power satellites...we
...could have been on the threshold of becoming the next energy "Saudi Arabia".

Where ...America is the primary source of energy for the world.

But no, the military needs a new observation post, to target the Chinese.

Are we living in an era of denial, insanity or stupidity?

I can't think of any other reason for the choice we're making
to go back to the moon instead of using NASA not just to study
the atmosphere, but to be the agency responsible for ...improving it
as well.

Hey, you NASA guys want larger budgets??? SSP is the path to
long term public and Congressional support.

A Moon Base is a recipe for a much smaller-leaner NASA.
Stripped to the bones by a public angry that NASA's
..lack of foresight is exceeded only by it's
..lack of backbone.



Jonathan

s

On Tue, 6 May 2008 21:17:23 -0400, "jonathan"
wrote:

snip

You need to reset your computers clock. It is 12 hours fast.

Casady

jonathan wrote:
I'M MAD AS HELL......


I am too! You got out of my killfile somehow.

Pat

Notice how the rich and powerful, as well as often are their brown-
nosed minions and otherwise pretend-atheist of Usenet, could care less
how spendy or bloody fossil fuel gets, or of how much secondary
inflation is taking place (especially on a global scale).

Notice how they have no viable alternatives that are not going to cost
us every bit as much if not more. Even their independent spook/mole
William Mook is at best a bipolar farce, exactly as though MI5/CIA and
DARPA orchestrated .

Perhaps their New World Order is coming sooner rather than later.
.. - Brad Guth


jonathan wrote:
I'M MAD AS HELL......

It's just insane. Oil was as low as $8 a barrel under Pres Clinton.
It increased by $60 a barrel just in the /last year/.

Let's just extrapolate that price increase out a few years, to...say...about the
time NASA gets to kick around a few more Moon Rocks in the year 2025
give or take ten?

I wonder how history will remember this time, when we had a choice between a
New Moon Base, or the Space Solar Power (SSP) program axed by President
Bush upon taking office.

This is what history will say I believe.

Everyone will be looking at our new shiny moon base much like we see
the ISS now. Doing /nothing/ except consume every available dollar just
to keep the thing flying. And they'll say it's clear the choice for the moon
over SSP was a result of two things.

The military: seeking the 'high ground' in the missile defense race.

Corruption: the big contractors preferring another "Bridge to Nowhere"
As they can promise NOTHING in return for the mega-bucks.
They haven't promised to cure anything, fix anything
or create anything beneficial to the taxpayers except
for the 'thing' itself Another ISS, existing only for the
sake of it. "Have Faith" The NASA administrator says...


There can be no other conclusion, that amidst a new global consensus
and awakening on the rapidly warming earth, we abandoned a visionary
long-term program, Space Solar Power, that could revolutionize
the future of this planet. A program that could not only address the
rapidly diminishing oil reserves, but also tackle greenhouse gasses
and global warming.

A single program, Space Solar Power, that could directly effect two of
greatest global threats. Not to mention all that flows from these
two threats, such as wars over oil, economic growth and national
security.

This was the program timeline when Bush canceled SSP

Space Solar Power Exploratory Research and Technology program (SERT)

a.. 2005: ~100 kW, Free-flyer, demo-scale commercial space
b.. 2010: ~100 kW Planetary Surface System, demo-scale, space exploration
c.. 2015: ~10 MW Free-flyer, Transportation; Large demo, solar clipper
d.. 2020: 1 GW Free-flyer, Full-scale solar power satellite commercial space
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_S...l ogy_program


By the time we build that shiny now Moon Base, The United States
...could've been building gigawatt class power satellites...we
...could have been on the threshold of becoming the next energy "Saudi Arabia".

Where ...America is the primary source of energy for the world.

But no, the military needs a new observation post, to target the Chinese.

Are we living in an era of denial, insanity or stupidity?

I can't think of any other reason for the choice we're making
to go back to the moon instead of using NASA not just to study
the atmosphere, but to be the agency responsible for ...improving it
as well.

Hey, you NASA guys want larger budgets??? SSP is the path to
long term public and Congressional support.

A Moon Base is a recipe for a much smaller-leaner NASA.
Stripped to the bones by a public angry that NASA's
..lack of foresight is exceeded only by it's
..lack of backbone.



Jonathan

s

I'M MAD AS HELL......

It's just insane. Oil was as low as $8 a barrel under Pres Clinton.
It increased by $60 a barrel just in the /last year/.

Let's just extrapolate that price increase out a few years, to...say...about the
time NASA gets to kick around a few more Moon Rocks in the year 2025
give or take ten?

I wonder how history will remember this time, when we had a choice between a
New Moon Base, or the Space Solar Power (SSP) program axed by President
Bush upon taking office.

This is what history will say I believe.

Everyone will be looking at our new shiny moon base much like we see
the ISS now. Doing /nothing/ except consume every available dollar just
to keep the thing flying. And they'll say it's clear the choice for the moon
over SSP was a result of two things.

The military: seeking the 'high ground' in the missile defense race.

Corruption: the big contractors preferring another "Bridge to Nowhere"
As they can promise NOTHING in return for the mega-bucks.
They haven't promised to cure anything, fix anything
or create anything beneficial to the taxpayers except
for the 'thing' itself Another ISS, existing only for the
sake of it. "Have Faith" The NASA administrator says...


There can be no other conclusion, that amidst a new global consensus
and awakening on the rapidly warming earth, we abandoned a visionary
long-term program, Space Solar Power, that could revolutionize
the future of this planet. A program that could not only address the
rapidly diminishing oil reserves, but also tackle greenhouse gasses
and global warming.

A single program, Space Solar Power, that could directly effect two of
greatest global threats. Not to mention all that flows from these
two threats, such as wars over oil, economic growth and national
security.

This was the program timeline when Bush canceled SSP

Space Solar Power Exploratory Research and Technology program (SERT)

a.. 2005: ~100 kW, Free-flyer, demo-scale commercial space
b.. 2010: ~100 kW Planetary Surface System, demo-scale, space exploration
c.. 2015: ~10 MW Free-flyer, Transportation; Large demo, solar clipper
d.. 2020: 1 GW Free-flyer, Full-scale solar power satellite commercial space
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_S...l ogy_program


By the time we build that shiny now Moon Base, The United States
....could've been building gigawatt class power satellites...we
....could have been on the threshold of becoming the next energy "Saudi Arabia".

Where ...America is the primary source of energy for the world.

But no, the military needs a new observation post, to target the Chinese.

Are we living in an era of denial, insanity or stupidity?

I can't think of any other reason for the choice we're making
to go back to the moon instead of using NASA not just to study
the atmosphere, but to be the agency responsible for ...improving it
as well.

Hey, you NASA guys want larger budgets??? SSP is the path to
long term public and Congressional support.

A Moon Base is a recipe for a much smaller-leaner NASA.
Stripped to the bones by a public angry that NASA's
...lack of foresight is exceeded only by it's
...lack of backbone.



Jonathan

s

On May 6, 6:17*pm, "jonathan" wrote:
I'M MAD AS HELL......

It's just insane. Oil was as low as $8 a barrel under Pres Clinton.
It increased by $60 a barrel just in the /last year/.

Let's just extrapolate that price increase out a few years, to...say...about the
time NASA gets to kick around a few more Moon Rocks in the year 2025
give or take ten?

I wonder how history will remember this time, when we had a choice between a
New Moon Base, or the Space Solar Power (SSP) program axed by President
Bush upon taking office.

This is what history will say I believe.

Everyone will be looking at our new shiny moon base much like we see
the ISS now. Doing /nothing/ except consume every available dollar just
to keep the thing flying. And they'll say it's clear the choice for the moon
over SSP was a result of two things.

The military: *seeking the 'high ground' in the missile defense race.

Corruption: *the big contractors preferring another "Bridge to Nowhere"
* * * * * * * * * *As they can promise NOTHING in return for the mega-bucks.
* * * * * * * * * *They haven't promised to cure anything, fix anything
* * * * * * * * * * or create anything beneficial to the taxpayers except
* * * * * * * * * *for the 'thing' itself Another ISS, existing only for the
* * * * * * * * * *sake of it. "Have Faith" The NASA administrator says...

There can be no other conclusion, that amidst a new global consensus
and awakening on the rapidly warming earth, we abandoned a visionary
long-term program, Space Solar Power, that could revolutionize
the future of this planet. A program that could not only address the
rapidly diminishing oil reserves, but also tackle greenhouse gasses
and global warming.

A single program, Space Solar Power, that could directly effect two of
greatest global threats. Not to mention all that flows from these
two threats, such as wars over oil, economic growth and national
security.

This was the program timeline when Bush canceled SSP

Space Solar Power Exploratory Research and Technology program (SERT)

* a.. 2005: ~100 kW, Free-flyer, demo-scale commercial space
* b.. 2010: ~100 kW Planetary Surface System, demo-scale, space exploration
* c.. 2015: ~10 MW Free-flyer, Transportation; Large demo, solar clipper
* d.. 2020: 1 GW Free-flyer, Full-scale solar power satellite commercial spacehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Solar_Power_Exploratory_Research_a....

By the time we build that shiny now Moon Base, The United States
...could've been building gigawatt class power satellites...we
...could have been on the threshold of becoming the next energy "Saudi Arabia".

Where ...America is the primary source of energy for the world.

But no, the military needs a new observation post, to target the Chinese.

Are we living in an era of denial, insanity or stupidity?

I can't think of any other reason for the choice we're making
to go back to the moon instead of using NASA not just to study
the atmosphere, but to be the agency responsible for ...improving it
as well.

Hey, you NASA guys want larger budgets??? SSP is the path to
long term public and Congressional support.

A Moon Base is a recipe for a much smaller-leaner NASA.
Stripped to the bones by a public angry that NASA's
..lack of foresight is exceeded only by it's
..lack of backbone.

Jonathan

s

A 5Gw SPS would have a mass close to 100X the ISS. If its cost were
scaled by the same measure, the price tag would exceed twelve trillion
dollars.

Thank you for the reference to sert. The proposal for a couple of
100Kw solar powered hall thrusters seems like a good way to develope
practical competitive space solar collectors which could well serve
science and give practical experience in the type of challenges SPSs
will have to deal with.

Increasing the number of robotic expeditions in the 10-20 ton range is
a practical way to develope the lower cost launch systems that are
necessary to even contemplate an SPS project.

On Tue, 6 May 2008 22:52:11 -0700 (PDT), in a place far, far away,
Totorkon made the phosphor on my monitor glow in
such a way as to indicate that:


A 5Gw SPS would have a mass close to 100X the ISS. If its cost were
scaled by the same measure, the price tag would exceed twelve trillion
dollars.

It would be absurd to assume that it would scale that way.

Please see

http://www.usoal.com

I have perfected low-cost solar panels. Terrestrial solar is the
first step.

Given the nature of PV cells, its easiest to electrolyze water into
hydrogen and oxygen. Hydrogen plus coal equals crude oil, methane
and char. Char plus oxygen equals carbon dioxide. CO plus hydrogen
equals methanol. Methane plus oxygen equals methanol. Dehydrate
methanol and get iso-octane. Add the iso-octane to the crude oil and
get light crude oil.

I have two facilities under construction in Indonesia that each are
planned to produce 200,000 barrels per day.

I am selling 20 forward contracts from each of the two facilities that
are under constrution in Indonesia. Each contract sells 10,000
barrels of oil for $750,000. with $250,000 deposit on 10,000 barrels
of oil with a balance of $500,000 due on delivery in 60 months. At
that time if a barrel of oil sells for $125 - this contract will be
worth $1,250,000 - which means after paying the $500,000 for the oil,
you pocket $750,000 on your original $250,000 investment. Of course
if oil drops to less than $75 per barrel at the time you take
delivery, you won't make any money.

I will build 42 facilities like this over the next 14 years. This is
enough to produce 8% of the world's crude oil needs.

I will also buy space launch assets from various aerospace contractors
to built a 7 element RLV capable of putting 500 metric tons into
LEO. A 3 element version puts 225 tons into LEO, and a one element
version with inline upper stage puts 75 tons into LEO. This vehicle
consists of a stretched ET with an aerospike engine at its base, using
5 RS-68 pumpsets. Each flight element masses 1,000 tons at lift off,
produces 1,500 tons of thrust at lift off, and carries 880 metric tons
of propellant. They are also equipped with cross-feed to implement a
unique staging approach I have created, but found out that others have
thought of the same thing in the past. All elements are fully
recovered and reused.

The 500 ton version orbits a thin film concentrator that focuses light
onto a multi-spectral PV array that operates at 5,000x solar
intensity. The PV array drives a free-electron laser that produces
laser energy at very high efficiencies. The laser beam uses
holographic techniques and nonlinear optical media along with adaptive
optics to beam energy to the 42 solar panel powered coal to liquid
facilities located around the world. This increases hyrogen and
oxygen output by 16x. A portion of this is used to increase oil
output to 700,000 b/d per facility - providing 35% of the world's
crude oil. The balance of the increase is used to create hyrogen gas
which s used directly as a fuel., This provides the equivalent of
1,250,000 b/d per facility. Which exceeds the current demand for
energy.

4,000 satellites each generating 6,000 MW of laser power are place in
GEO and operated to feed energy to the coal-to-liquid plants. A fleet
of 30 heavy lift booster take 10 days each to be refurbished and
reloaded for a flight. Three flights per day are carried out. In
four years 4,000 satellites are deployed. It takes 6 years to design
and build out the fleet of rockets and the launch center. It takes
four years from today to get the first two facilities in production.
Revenue from the sale of oil from the first two facilities pays for
everything.

Once the world's energy prices have been resolved, the fleet of 30
heavy lift boosters are available to place piloted payloads onto
orbit, on the moon, on Mars and in the Asteroid belt.

Additional revenues may be earned by developing these accessible
frontier regions.