...The Greatest Weakness of America!

"Andrew Chaplin" wrote
"Rich" wrote in message
. ..
Peter Muehlbauer wrote:
"Rand Simberg" wrote
On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 22:27:57 -0400, in a place far, far away,
"Jonathan" made the phosphor on my monitor glow
in such a way as to indicate that:

I've seen such panic situations with my own eyes
several times, as i live in Miami. Trust me when I say
when the day comes the world realizes the oil party
is over, it'll all come crashing down ....overnight.

Not a steady decline, but in a panic.
Nonsense. "Peak oil" is a myth. We have huge reserves in shale and
tar sands, which become economically viable at prices below the
current ones.

Just an hour ago, there was a documentation on german TV about
a farmer in Tennesee, who found oil on his land by flike.
An oil company then was exploring his land and found lots of oil
although there hasn't thought to be oil.
They now convey about 4000 barrels a week from there.
I think, the earth has still a lot of oil, it has only to be found.

Was his name Jed Clampett? :-)

Exactly my thought: someone has been re-running the Beverly Hillbillies.

I can't remember the name, but I think it was this one?
http://tennessean.com/business/archi...nt_ID=49542537
Or a similar.

BradGuth wrote:
On Jul 17, 5:23 am, (Rand Simberg)
wrote:
On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 22:27:57 -0400, in a place far, far away,
"Jonathan" made the phosphor on my monitor glow
in such a way as to indicate that:

I've seen such panic situations with my own eyes
several times, as i live in Miami. Trust me when I say
when the day comes the world realizes the oil party
is over, it'll all come crashing down ....overnight.
Not a steady decline, but in a panic.
Nonsense. "Peak oil" is a myth. We have huge reserves in shale and
tar sands, which become economically viable at prices below the
current ones.

At $100+ per barrel, there's oil in most anything.

At $1000/barrel we can make oil out of gems. Otherwise human bodies
can be processed into oil.

What's the BTU rating of a good Muslim, or via most anything other
that's alive and kicking?
-
Brad Guth

Depends on whether they're fattening up at GITMO or living in a cave
somewhere in Pakistan.

--
An ignorant person is one who doesn't know what you have just found out

http://OutSourcedNews.com


The problem with the global warming theory, is that theories are like a
bowl of ice-cream, it only takes a little dab of **** to ruin the whole
thing.

BradGuth wrote:
On Jul 17, 12:20 am, "Peter Muehlbauer"
wrote:
"Jonathan" wrote



I'm stating the obvious when I claim it's our dependence
on fossil fuels.
[snip]

There is no more Peak Oil.

http://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/0,1518,490207,00.html
(maybe this is somewhere in english too, didn't look for it)

Off shore of South East Asia more and more natural gas and oil is
discovered.
The lucky one is Vietnam, where the fields stretch like a carpet
from north to south, among them a supergiant field like in
Saudi Arabia.
...
From probe boreholes at Sihanoukville Chevron found oil with
4 of 5 boreholes. Chevron calls this significant.
They estimate 500 billion barrels of oil within 6 fields, and that's
only the beginning.

Royal Dutch Shell is drilling off shore from Sabah, wherefrom starting
to convey 350 billion barrels at coming autumn.

Vietnam opens up 3 new blocks of about 700 billion barrels in the
Cuu-Long bassin and JapanVietnam Pertoleum discovers another
field with 37 billion barrels.

The supergiant field however is located in the Song-Hong bassin
with an estimated volume of 5 trillion barrels.

The Vietnam war was in fact all about the taking of their oil, and
nothing else. I kid you not.
-
Brad Guth

That one worked so well, that we decided to do it again?
It'd be easier to buy camels and right-off the oil

--
An ignorant person is one who doesn't know what you have just found out

http://OutSourcedNews.com


The problem with the global warming theory, is that theories are like a
bowl of ice-cream, it only takes a little dab of **** to ruin the whole
thing.

"Peter Muehlbauer" wrote in message
...

"Andrew Chaplin" wrote
"Rich" wrote in message
. ..
Peter Muehlbauer wrote:

Just an hour ago, there was a documentation on german TV about
a farmer in Tennesee, who found oil on his land by flike.
An oil company then was exploring his land and found lots of oil
although there hasn't thought to be oil.
They now convey about 4000 barrels a week from there.
I think, the earth has still a lot of oil, it has only to be found.

Was his name Jed Clampett? :-)

Exactly my thought: someone has been re-running the Beverly Hillbillies.

I can't remember the name, but I think it was this one?
http://tennessean.com/business/archi...nt_ID=49542537
Or a similar.

You will note, I hope, Rich's emoticon. The basis of the documentary you saw
is too close to the premise of the 1960s situation comedy. The theme song by
Lester Flatt and Earl Scruggs ran,

Come and listen to a story 'bout a man named Jed,
Poor mountaineer barely kept his family fed.
Then one day he was shooting for some food,
And up through the ground come a-bubblin' crude
(Oil that is, black gold, Texas tea).

Well, the first thing you know old Jed's a millionaire.
Kin folk said Jed move away from there;
Said California is the place you oughta be,
So they loaded up the truck and they moved to Beverly
(Hills that is, swimming pools, movie stars).

Well now it's time to say goodbye to Jed and all his kin.
They would like to thank you folks for kindly dropping in.
You're all invited back again to this locality
To have a heaping helping of their hospitality.
(Beverly Hillbillies, that's what they call 'em now,
Nice folks, y'all come back now, ya hear?)
--
Andrew Chaplin
SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO
(If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.)

"mrbawana2u" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Jul 16, 7:27 pm, "Jonathan" wrote:

I'm stating the obvious when I claim it's our dependence
on fossil fuels.

Just tattoo MORON on your forehead.

Left-tards and other government parasites are "The Greatest Weakness
of America!"

As usual, the banana has nothing.

Jonathan wrote:
I'm stating the obvious when I claim it's our dependence
on fossil fuels.

But what I think few understand is just how quickly
the world oil market could collapse. Do you realize
that OPEC bases its annual oil production quotas
partially on the estimated reserves a member
country claims?

Which means a country can pump more oil each
year if it claims larger reserves in the ground.

It's been documented that many OPEC countries have
over estimated their reserves by as much as 50%.
How much do we trust the stated oil reserves
of countries like Saudi Arabia, Iran, Nigeria, Russia
Kuwait and Venezuela?

"How Credible Are Proven Oil Reserves:"
The Case of Iran, Russia & Canada

"Among the principal beneficiaries of these revisions are Iran whose proven
reserves have gone up from 89.7 bb at the beginning of 2003 to130.7 bb in
2004 and then to 132.5 bb in 2005 and Russia from 48.6 bb to 69.1 bb and
then to 72.3 bb at a time when no major discoveries were reported in
these two countries in 2003 or 2004."
http://www.odac-info.org/assessments...5thNAEConf.pdf

MIDDLE EAST OIL - REALITY AND ILLUSION

"In 1985, Kuwait added 50% to its reported reserves although nothing
particular had changed in the oilfield. Three years later, Venezuela doubled
its reserves by the inclusion of long-known but not previously counted,
heavy oil reserves. That forced Abu Dhabi, Dubai, Iran and Iraq to
retaliate with massive increases to protect their OPEC quota, which
was based partly on reserves. Saudi Arabia followed in 1990 increasing
its reported reserves from 170 Gb to 257.5 Gb, an estimate that has
barely changed since, despite intervening production of some 37 Gb."
http://www.peakoil.net/Publications/...D_ILLUSION.pdf


..................................................


It's easy to assume that when oil finally does begin
running out, that the decline will be steady and
predictable over a number of years.

But think about that for a moment. Has anyone
ever been in a city the moment it becomes clear
a hurricane is going to hit? That city goes from
a normally functioning well supplied operation
to being completely wiped out of all cash, gas
and food in .....THREE HOURS FLAT!

I've seen such panic situations with my own eyes
several times, as i live in Miami. Trust me when I say
when the day comes the world realizes the oil party
is over, it'll all come crashing down ....overnight.

Not a steady decline, but in a panic.

One day they'll be some news event, some story that gets
everyones attention. Such as how Hurricane Katrina
has galvanized the global warming movement.
And everything will change overnight.

Maybe another story like this will come out, except
about the Saudi oil fields.........

"Mexico's Cantarell oil field, the world's second largest producer,
is beginning to dry up"
http://www.scdigest.com/assets/newsV...&ctype=content


Or maybe a story like this...........

"It was an incredible revelation last week that the second largest
oil field in the world is exhausted and past its peak output.
Yet that is what the Kuwait Oil Company revealed about
its Burgan field."
http://www.ameinfo.com/71519.html


Countries will start hording instead of pumping when that
Katrina-like event occurs.
Everyone /at once/ will keep what they have for
themselves and bunker down.

If America is not ready for that day, our country
could become a ghost of its former self in the
blink of an eye.

Did you know George Bush cancelled an ambitious
NASA Space Solar Power program, which could ultimately
lead to the US becoming the energy "King" of the future?
And replaced that program with another moon shot?

More ...moon rocks... instead of ensuring our future?

During the next Presidential election, we need to demand
the wasteful return to the moon be 'aborted' and this program
below be ....reinstated.

This is the path to replacing fossil fuels for the long term.
It's the path to a bright future for America.
It's the path to end global warming.
And an end to a future where Islam dominates us all.

Let's make America the next energy "Saudi Arabia".


Executive Summary
NASA'S SPACE SOLAR POWER EXPLORATORY RESEARCH AND
TECHNOLOGY (SERT) PROGRAM
http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?isbn=0309075971

The National Aeronautics and Space Administration's Space Solar Power (SSP)
Exploratory Research and Technology (SERT) program was charged to develop
technologies needed to provide cost-competitive ground baseload electrical
power from space-based solar energy converters.


The SERT program was established in FY 1999 and continued through FY 2000 by
U.S. congressional appropriation. An additional appropriation was also
funded for SSP Research and Technology (SSP R&T) for FY 2001. Decisions on
internal NASA budget allocations for FY 2002 were pending during review and
publication of this report.


The program has identified several flight demonstration milestones in order
to test technologies and concepts in the near-term and mid-term in
preparation for transferring the technologies to industry for final
full-scale development and implementation. A more specific treatment of
these flight demonstrations and key program milestones can be found
in Section 2-1.

The program has identified an investment portfolio for a future SSP program
with planned resource allocation through 2016 (see Table D-l).
Technology flight demonstrations (referred to by NASA as MSCs) are
scheduled in FY 2006-2007, FY 2011-2012, and FY 2016.

From 2002 to 2006 the funding request for SSP was respectively

$88million
$124million
$211million
$282million
$312million
..................................................


"Chairman Rohrabacher opened the hearing by stating that
space solar power (SSP) is "precisely what NASA as an
agency should be all about" - He stated that NASA's lack
of preparation to follow up on SSP, a concept that, he claimed,
"cries out for further research," may be because NASA wants
to focus on human space flight, "in hopes of reclaiming the
glory days of Apollo." He wants NASA to take the next measured
step in research, and believes that this visionary approach would
reap huge public support for NASA ."

Hearing on "Space Solar Power: A Fresh Look" before the
Subcommittee on Space and Aeronautics of the House
Committee on Science, October 24, 1997.
http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/legaff/solar.html


Space Solar Power
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_solar_power

Space Solar Power Concept And Technology Maturation Program
Nasa Glenn Research Center
http://space-power.grc.nasa.gov/ppo/publications/sctm/

Pentagon Considering Study on Space-Based Solar Power
Thursday, April 12, 2007
By Jeremy Singer
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,265380,00.html

MIT Space Solar Power Workshop
http://web.mit.edu/space_solar_power/


s

You may not be avare of what Germany did during WW2. But after the
loss of the Ploesty oilfields captured by the Red Army in late year
1944, they managed to find a new source for petrol/gas on theyr tanks
and planes. Now, this is fact not fiction. What were the Germans able
to do? They refined gas/petrol out of coal. It can be done, its
expensive but there is enough coal to last next 3 - 400 years,
according to current use and at least 100 years with greatly expanded
use.

Cheers, Einar

Jonathan wrote:
I'm stating the obvious when I claim it's our dependence
on fossil fuels.

But what I think few understand is just how quickly
the world oil market could collapse. Do you realize
that OPEC bases its annual oil production quotas
partially on the estimated reserves a member
country claims?

Which means a country can pump more oil each
year if it claims larger reserves in the ground.

It's been documented that many OPEC countries have
over estimated their reserves by as much as 50%.
How much do we trust the stated oil reserves
of countries like Saudi Arabia, Iran, Nigeria, Russia
Kuwait and Venezuela?

"How Credible Are Proven Oil Reserves:"
The Case of Iran, Russia & Canada

"Among the principal beneficiaries of these revisions are Iran whose proven
reserves have gone up from 89.7 bb at the beginning of 2003 to130.7 bb in
2004 and then to 132.5 bb in 2005 and Russia from 48.6 bb to 69.1 bb and
then to 72.3 bb at a time when no major discoveries were reported in
these two countries in 2003 or 2004."
http://www.odac-info.org/assessments...5thNAEConf.pdf

MIDDLE EAST OIL - REALITY AND ILLUSION

"In 1985, Kuwait added 50% to its reported reserves although nothing
particular had changed in the oilfield. Three years later, Venezuela doubled
its reserves by the inclusion of long-known but not previously counted,
heavy oil reserves. That forced Abu Dhabi, Dubai, Iran and Iraq to
retaliate with massive increases to protect their OPEC quota, which
was based partly on reserves. Saudi Arabia followed in 1990 increasing
its reported reserves from 170 Gb to 257.5 Gb, an estimate that has
barely changed since, despite intervening production of some 37 Gb."
http://www.peakoil.net/Publications/...D_ILLUSION.pdf


..................................................


It's easy to assume that when oil finally does begin
running out, that the decline will be steady and
predictable over a number of years.

But think about that for a moment. Has anyone
ever been in a city the moment it becomes clear
a hurricane is going to hit? That city goes from
a normally functioning well supplied operation
to being completely wiped out of all cash, gas
and food in .....THREE HOURS FLAT!

I've seen such panic situations with my own eyes
several times, as i live in Miami. Trust me when I say
when the day comes the world realizes the oil party
is over, it'll all come crashing down ....overnight.

Not a steady decline, but in a panic.

One day they'll be some news event, some story that gets
everyones attention. Such as how Hurricane Katrina
has galvanized the global warming movement.
And everything will change overnight.

Maybe another story like this will come out, except
about the Saudi oil fields.........

"Mexico's Cantarell oil field, the world's second largest producer,
is beginning to dry up"
http://www.scdigest.com/assets/newsV...&ctype=content


Or maybe a story like this...........

"It was an incredible revelation last week that the second largest
oil field in the world is exhausted and past its peak output.
Yet that is what the Kuwait Oil Company revealed about
its Burgan field."
http://www.ameinfo.com/71519.html


Countries will start hording instead of pumping when that
Katrina-like event occurs.
Everyone /at once/ will keep what they have for
themselves and bunker down.

If America is not ready for that day, our country
could become a ghost of its former self in the
blink of an eye.

Did you know George Bush cancelled an ambitious
NASA Space Solar Power program, which could ultimately
lead to the US becoming the energy "King" of the future?
And replaced that program with another moon shot?

More ...moon rocks... instead of ensuring our future?

During the next Presidential election, we need to demand
the wasteful return to the moon be 'aborted' and this program
below be ....reinstated.

This is the path to replacing fossil fuels for the long term.
It's the path to a bright future for America.
It's the path to end global warming.
And an end to a future where Islam dominates us all.

Let's make America the next energy "Saudi Arabia".


Executive Summary
NASA'S SPACE SOLAR POWER EXPLORATORY RESEARCH AND
TECHNOLOGY (SERT) PROGRAM
http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?isbn=0309075971

The National Aeronautics and Space Administration's Space Solar Power (SSP)
Exploratory Research and Technology (SERT) program was charged to develop
technologies needed to provide cost-competitive ground baseload electrical
power from space-based solar energy converters.


The SERT program was established in FY 1999 and continued through FY 2000 by
U.S. congressional appropriation. An additional appropriation was also
funded for SSP Research and Technology (SSP R&T) for FY 2001. Decisions on
internal NASA budget allocations for FY 2002 were pending during review and
publication of this report.


The program has identified several flight demonstration milestones in order
to test technologies and concepts in the near-term and mid-term in
preparation for transferring the technologies to industry for final
full-scale development and implementation. A more specific treatment of
these flight demonstrations and key program milestones can be found
in Section 2-1.

The program has identified an investment portfolio for a future SSP program
with planned resource allocation through 2016 (see Table D-l).
Technology flight demonstrations (referred to by NASA as MSCs) are
scheduled in FY 2006-2007, FY 2011-2012, and FY 2016.

From 2002 to 2006 the funding request for SSP was respectively

$88million
$124million
$211million
$282million
$312million
..................................................


"Chairman Rohrabacher opened the hearing by stating that
space solar power (SSP) is "precisely what NASA as an
agency should be all about" - He stated that NASA's lack
of preparation to follow up on SSP, a concept that, he claimed,
"cries out for further research," may be because NASA wants
to focus on human space flight, "in hopes of reclaiming the
glory days of Apollo." He wants NASA to take the next measured
step in research, and believes that this visionary approach would
reap huge public support for NASA ."

Hearing on "Space Solar Power: A Fresh Look" before the
Subcommittee on Space and Aeronautics of the House
Committee on Science, October 24, 1997.
http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/legaff/solar.html


Space Solar Power
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_solar_power

Space Solar Power Concept And Technology Maturation Program
Nasa Glenn Research Center
http://space-power.grc.nasa.gov/ppo/publications/sctm/

Pentagon Considering Study on Space-Based Solar Power
Thursday, April 12, 2007
By Jeremy Singer
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,265380,00.html

MIT Space Solar Power Workshop
http://web.mit.edu/space_solar_power/


s

You may not be avare of what Germany did during WW2. But after the
loss of the Ploesty oilfields captured by the Red Army in late year
1944, they managed to find a new source for petrol/gas on theyr tanks
and planes. Now, this is fact not fiction. What were the Germans able
to do? They refined gas/petrol out of coal. It can be done, its
expensive but there is enough coal to last next 3 - 400 years,
according to current use and at least 100 years with greatly expanded
use.

Cheers, Einar

s

You may not be avare of what Germany did during WW2. But after the
loss of the Ploesty oilfields captured by the Red Army in late year
1944, they managed to find a new source for petrol/gas on theyr tanks
and planes. Now, this is fact not fiction. What were the Germans able
to do? They refined gas/petrol out of coal. It can be done, its
expensive but there is enough coal to last next 3 - 400 years,
according to current use and at least 100 years with greatly expanded
use.

Cheers, Einar


Coal puts out twice the carbon dioxide as natural gas.
Going that route means giving up on the environment.

The big advantage of Space Solar Power is it's also
a ...solution... to global warming. This tremendous
advantage makes SSP the more logical choice.

Do you really want to see countries like China and India
burning vasts amounts of coal as they continue to
industrialize at such a fast pace?

That would be trading one disaster for another.
Netting little in the long run. SSP is a single solution
to both our dependence on fossil fuels and
climate change.

SSP also has large military and commercial advantages.

Much like the US Air Mail helped jump start commercial
aviation, a large SSP program could do the same for
commercial space flight.

Solar Power from space, spaceports, low cost to orbit, commercial and
military exploitation of space....ALL THESE DREAMS DIED with the
election of President Bush.

Kennedy Space Center Next Gen Site.
http://science.ksc.nasa.gov/shuttle/...power_main.htm

Andrew Chaplin wrote:
"Peter Muehlbauer" wrote in message
[snip]


You will note, I hope, Rich's emoticon. The basis of the documentary you saw
is too close to the premise of the 1960s situation comedy. The theme song by
Lester Flatt and Earl Scruggs ran,

Come and listen to a story 'bout a man named Jed,
Poor mountaineer barely kept his family fed.
Then one day he was shooting for some food,
And up through the ground come a-bubblin' crude
(Oil that is, black gold, Texas tea).


The way Hollywood works there will be a true story behind the Beverly
Hillbillies, however his name will not have been Jed.

Andrew Swallow

"Joe Strout" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Peter Muehlbauer" wrote:

and ordinary field weeds are better sources of ethanol than corn.

I see no reason why not burning fossil fuel, instead of burning food.

Because fossil fuels, by their very nature, release carbon that was
gathered over millions of years, and has been sequestered underground
for millions of years. Biofuels release carbon that was just captured
from the air last season; they're carbon-neutral.

Last I checked CO2 is CO2.....unless you mean coal produces
higher levels of CO2 than burning corn.

Burning food means people will starve.....since the price of crops will
rise.
Bottom line ethanol is not the answer.

I doubt ethanol will ever turn out to be very useful as a fuel, though;
DMF is more likely. Researchers recently found a new catalytic process
that makes DMF production much more practical than it was before. See,
for example,

Concur....you get crappy mileage from ethanol as well...which means
you have to burn more.

Mark



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com